jon c. 

I do agree that we all want to be safe. But if we disagree on the best way to do that we have no natural alliance. And many of us don't really know what the best way is. Especially when "best" always has to be viewed within the parameters of cost constraints. Local proposals draw disagreement among the strongly opinionated in the cycling community and the rest of us are willing to stay out of it.

But although I'm a roadie, I am in favor of trail building. And those are usually less controversial. One of these days I need to get a ride with larger tires and try a few local trails.

Jughed

People, otherwise good mannered regular everyday people, can become completely aggressive, self-entitled A-Holes when they get behind the wheel of a car.

Not only do they dislike cyclists - they dislike and dehumanize anyone that may hold them up for even a few seconds.

Add to that cell phones, screaming kids, smoking weed, being drunk, road rage...

We will only really be safe(r) when cars are completely automated and the human factor is removed from the equation.

livedarklions

What I've noticed is that drivers act differently in different parts of the country. I ride in lots of different towns and cities and there's differences between them. Some cities I absolutely avoid because of the frequency of running into hostile jerks, others the drivers seem to be fine and reasonable. It seems to be directly related to the likelihood of seeing other cyvclists there, the more cyclists the fewer the incidents, but I don't know what direction the causal arrow points.

Do you face harassment on an upright but not a bent? That's interesting.

seypat

In my experience, the plainer the kit, bicycle, etc, the less harrassement/attention I get. I get my automobiles serviced at a place 3ish miles from my office. I usually throw a bike in the back and ride it to/from the auto service center back to my office in street clothes. Also on a bike with a rack and flat pedals. Very little reaction from drivers. Put me on that same stretch in a garish kit on a racy bike and the meanies show up. Summarizing, if I'm just a dude on a bike going somewhere, nobody cares much. Maybe they think I'm riding to a job and the bike is supporting my income. But if I'm out there like a peacock doing my thing as a $@+&!?* cyclist, they're going to put me in my place.

livedarklions

I agree that the video you made up in your head is stupid. It is not the one he made, however.

He makes videos about cycling, that doesn't make him a professional cyclist. You really have no idea what the video is actually about if you think it has anything to do with gravel biking at all, let alone "partypace"..

Nobody wants your left knut, btw.

genejockey 

Huh. I have started wearing brighter kit to be more visible, but perhaps that actually attracts the wrong kind of attention from the psychopaths you describe.

genejockey 

Indeed, I really enjoy his videos about how we could better structure our urban and suburban environments for PEOPLE instead of cars. One that particularly rang true focused on Houston. I've been there ONCE, and have no desire ever to go there again. It was the most hostile environment for anyone not in a car that I could imagine, and sadly I can't think of any way to make it into anything else.

Flip Flop Rider

Scottish bike rider

seypat

I didn't mean not brighter, just plain/ho hum. All of my jerseys are single bright colors. No graphics, logos, etc. As plain and generic as I can look. That Lampre, Mello Johnny's, So & So Cycling Club, whatever kit is like the red flag that Matadors wave, at least in my experience. Could be why the poster above gets no negative action when he's on a bent. He looks like a disabled vet in a wheelchair or disabled racing handcycle. Perfect disquise.

Let's be honest, Cycling dude or lady is not wearing that "Hell and Brimstone To Vallhalla and Back With Thor & The Gods Death Ride" jersey that they acquired to be seen by drivers. They get it and wear it to impress other cyclists.

smd4

Are you kidding? Stephan Pastis has made part of a career out of ridiculing cyclists.

Pearls before Swine

Taken as a group, by people who don't consider themselves cyclists, we're generally not viewed favorably...to be diplomatic. Here in the South, with narrow, winding country roads, often it is a variation of "those damn bike riders don't pay any road-use taxes, and yet ride three riders across a lane, making it impossible to pass them!"

seypat

"F those cyclists! I'm a gonna bust um with this here Cherry Big Gulp Slurpee. That'll show um."

Jughed

It sucks - but I've had bottles thrown at me, curses and slurs, had people go apesh1t about me not paying taxes and how I shouldn't be on their road. I used to ride with a woman that was hit with a brick and ended up breaking her neck on the crash.

I live out deep into farm country, some of the local hillbilly types have issues with self restraint and respecting others - out on roads that are 95% empty and free of traffic. Traffic here is being held up for 10 seconds by an Amish buggy or a piece of farm equipment on the road.

People, in general, can be _______'holes.

livedarklions

I am beginning to wonder whether cyclists really are subject to any more road rage than other "traffic". What I do know from experience is that it's a lot harder to ignore when you're on a bicycle than in a car--pretty much everything yelled or thrown from a car implies a whole hell of a lot more threat when I don't have the big steel cage around me.

genejockey 

Drivers yell at other drivers. Hell, drivers SHOOT at other drivers. But generally for doing something the shouter/shooter deems "wrong", not simply for using the road. Many drivers do not believe cyclists have a right to be on the road AT ALL, whereas generally they accept the idea that other cars have a right to be there. Cars don't generally get run off the road simply for existing.

seypat

I don't get it. Out in the sticks the locals are usually only driving 35-50MPH. That 50 is when they're on the downside of a hill. They're not in a hurry to get anywhere. Throw in the Amish, farm implements, etc. My inlaws live kind of across the bay west of you in Lancaster County, VA, They live in an area of VA known as "The Rivah" for it's slow, easy going lifestyle. Yet a cyclist on the road will set some of them off. I don't get it.

genejockey 

Maybe it's not about the speed, or the "inconvenience". Maybe it's group identification. My experience growing up in the sticks was there's a lot of resentment of anyone or anything "different".

wolfchild

I think that depends on the location....and lets face it ,cyclists are the easiest target out there.

genejockey 

Yeah. You have to jump the curb to get to pedestrians, but we're right there on the road.

Random11

I've been riding for a bit over five years now, and was starting to think of myself as a cyclist. But now that I've seen the negative connotations, I'm rethinking whether that's an identity I want to adopt.

50PlusCycling

The definition is relative. A “cyclist” in the classical definition of the word is a person whose favorite pastime is riding a bicycle. A thug or group of thugs attacking people or damaging property while riding bicycles are not “cyclists,” they are simply thugs who were riding bicycles. We don’t call muggers who knock you down and steal your wallet pedestrians or fighters, we call them muggers. And we don’t all those armed Latin American armed robbers on motorcycles motorcyclists, we call them armed robbers. But the term “cyclist” has negative connotations in places where bicycle riders are frequently aggressive.

livedarklions

There really is no such classical definition, it's one among many, and leaves out people who do a lot of riding for reasons other than a "pastime.". Arguably, your definition doesn't include professional bicycle racers at the one end, and daily commuters at the other.

The point of the video is that the bicycle is a machine we use, and people start making all sorts of unwarranted assumptions about the person who uses the machine on a regular basis.


The more I read about this, the more I think we should just stop using the term.

smd4

What do you suggest as a replacement?

drlogik 

A "Cyclist" is now part of yet another identity group of "Cyclists"? Really? So a "Racer" (assuming a professional cyclist for this argument) is a cyclist when he's riding his bike for fun with his son or daughter? Wouldn't he be a "Racer"? He's part of the "Racer" identity group.

Isn't he a "Dad" and a member of the "Dad" identity group? If he owns a car and drives his car to the grocery store with his children, is he not a "Motorist" and part of the "Motorist" identity group? My gosh, he's a Cyclist-dad-motorist! Obviously he's very confused as to what identity group he belongs to.

Merriam-Webster defines a "Cyclist" as "A person who rides a cycle." "Cycle" is also defined, for our purposes, in Merriam-Webster as "A Bicycle, Tricycle or Motorcycle."

"A person who rides...", as in, what they are doing now. There's no mention of an identity group.

If you're riding a bike, you're a cyclist. If you're driving a car, you're a motorist. If you're riding a bike with your children, you're a dad doing the right thing.

livedarklions

I dunno, we really don't worry about the collective term for people who use other modes of transportation. That was one of the main points of the video. The term seems to be linked to some notion that we're a monolithic group, sharing the same views, using bikes in the same way, and responsible for the collective infractions of the entire group, real or imaginary. The term may have gotten too loaded with (incompatible and incoherent) identity implications to be useful.

People who ride bicycles? That's really the only commonality. I wouldn't expect the shift of words to have much if any practical effect, but at least it might stop people from this pointless bickering about the meaning of the term.

livedarklions

Agreed.

Riding a bike is something I do. But being a dad is definitely part of who I am.