gazman22

I think I have tried both! I believe aligned with the crank arm is how the manufacturer recommends, at least for removal.

cudak888 

Just bringing this up to the top so those interested in the tool can join. Also tagging Iowa10Speed for some pictures.

-Kurt

Iowa10Speed

There must be vibes in the universe. As it happens, just yesterday I kicked my butt in gear and pulled the cranks off my 1950 Schwinn Superior. I'm a hopeless procrastinator. I have more projects queued, but IF ANYONE WANTS THE PRESS I'll mail it out immediately.

I'm very disappointed with the BikeSmith cotter press. There was absolutely no drama getting the cotters out. I feel cheated that I can't join the Cotter Pin Tale of Woe Club (yet).




I'm soliciting theories on the rear brake cable routing below. Current "method" (red line) hangs loose under the bottom bracket and lazily loops up to the brake. Green line shows how the Schwinn catalog routes it along the top of the chainguard through a well designed and very visible clip. The cable is old. It's been there a long while.

My theories:

1) The Schwinn dealership got creative

2) The previous owner removed the original cable to show the Schwinn store what kind of replacement he needed. But being a horrible procrastinator, by the time he got around to installing it 4 years later, he had long forgotten how it was supposed go.

3) He didn't have anything to cut the housing, so he used all 8 feet.

4) He was cheap, and by golly he used every inch to get his money's worth.


Creative cable routing

curbtender

I'd run it on the top tube.

cudak888 

Don't do any of those three. Route it on the top tube with a pair of cable clips, conventionally. The 1940 catalog shows it run this way, so there's no reason to deviate from the norm:

(https://bikehistory.org/bikes/superior/)


-Kurt

Iowa10Speed

Looks like Schwinn made a design change between pre-war and post-war. The 1949 dealers's flyer shows the cable over the chainguard.



1950's catalog

albrt 

I've seen a lot of step-throughs with the cable routed low like that, but regular diamond frames it's usually along the top tube from above. The caliper is usually reversible so you can approach it from top or bottom.

By routed low I mean like in the catalog pictures, not all the way down near the ground like the OP's example.

curbtender

They also have the shift cable on the downtube. If you run the brake cable that way you make a bend that can trap moisture and then you are dealing with rusted cable and housing.

cudak888 

I can't imagine why Schwinn would do that (especially since it increases the chances of the cable trapping water), unless they were trying to cut corners by using the same cable, clamps, and brake configuration between the women's model and men's models.

Green is definitely the way to route it per the catalogs, but I can't get over how awkward it is.

-Kurt

SirMike1983 

Schwinn did that to standardize production so that the women's and men's used the same rear cable set up. There's a loop on top of the chain guard that holds the rear cable. The standard top tube mounting for the rear cable is preferable for the men's bike, but if you want to go totally period correct, you can do the chain guard route for the rear cable. If you're re-using all original brake cables and housings, you'll probably need to use the chain guard route because the cable will be too long for top tube (my experience is that at least). Given how good the condition and originality is on that bike, I'd be inclined to re-use as much as you can to keep it original.

Schwinn's cottered cranks appear to have been made as a copy of Birmingham Hercules/Phillips/BSA type cranks. I've had luck replacing cottered 1940s era Schwinn bottom bracket parts with Birmingham production parts. The AS&CO sprocket is a copy of the BSA style. The Schwinn frames tend to have similar frame angles to pre-war BSA and Hercules type bikes (more laid back than the Raleigh Sports we are more familiar with). The bikes were made to compete with English imports.

I have a 1950 Superior as well - in an aluminum-green color. The cable covers were shot on mine, so I rebuilt with new black covers and the top tube cable routing.



The chain guard routing is seen on this early 1950s Traveler I rebuilt a few years ago:

Iowa10Speed

Beautiful bikes! I'm new to this era of bikes, They're growing on me quickly!

SirMike1983 

The post-war Superior and New World are still pretty reasonable buys if you want an old Schwinn three speed. Performance is on a par with a basic Raleigh Sports, though the feel is a little different because of the frame angles. The New World and post-war Superior are generally a little heavier than a comparably sized Raleigh.


The skills to repair them are pretty much the same as those needed to fix an old Raleigh Sports. The Bikesmith press should work for both Schwinn and Raleigh cottered cranks from that era, so no issue there either. The only place I've had trouble with the first-generation Bikesmith press is on particularly low-profile cottered cranks like Raleigh Clubman and Lenton types (still doable, but you need to watch your positioning carefully and, if necessary, remove the bolt-on chainring before going at it). Perhaps the rounded, second generation press is better in that use.

gazman22

I believe the rear brake will dictate wether to run the cable from above or below. Look at were the housing stops on the brake and then the cable proceeds to the cable clamp. That direction will indicate running cable from top down or bottom up.

JohnDThompson 

Many calipers on these older bikes allow you to swap the mounting position of the housing stop and cable anchor to allow routing in either direction.

gazman22

Nice. thanks for the info!

SirMike1983 

That's exactly right for the period "Schwinn Built" calipers - you swap the adjuster barrel and pinch bolt to whichever direction you prefer.

Classtime 

I've just contacted BikesmithDesign about new cotters for my Peugeot. I made a bit of mess when removed and replaced the originals. Are you guys using the press to install the cotters as well as removing them? I think that is recommended by Bikesmithdesign and therefore I will wait until I have new cotters in hand before I participate in this wonderful program.

Jeff

cudak888 

Definitely use the press to install them too. They'll loosen up on you pretty quickly otherwise.

-Kurt

MnHPVA Guy

I heartily endorse the idea of a pass around cotter press. In fact I'm a little ambivalent about selling my tools to someone who only has one bike that needs them.
You would strip the threads off the stem way before you could install a cotter tightly enough with the nut.
Please be sure to follow the instructions at New Crank Cotter Press

The throat dimensions on the early presses were taken from a Park Tool press after they discontinued them. The problem was that when the press body is at 90º to the arm the offset stem is often not centered in the cupped bolt. Late models have a deep enough throat that you can have the body in line (or nearly so) with the arm and the press bolt can center on the stem.

Mark Stonich

cudak888 

One can never have enough tools. ALL of my "one time only" tools have wound up being used more than once.

By the way, in the years that I've owned the V1 of the tool, I can't recall having an issue where the tool hasn't been deep enough to center it. If anything, I had the opposite experience. On my Mk.1 Moulton, both the V1 and the VAR tool that Mad Honk sent to me have been too deep to work correctly, but just close enough to manage a safe(ish) removal and reinstallation.




The Moulton has a particularly thin area between the chainring and the crankarm swedging, so I shouldn't be surprised though.

-Kurt

SirMike1983 

Mark, I think some thanks are in order. I have the V1 and it's a great tool to have. I've used it many times and on many bikes, always with success. It is built really well and has held up for me over quite a few years of working on old bikes. The press is a "must-have" for anyone serious about old bikes with cottered cranks.

I will add that the BikeSmith "Grade A" cotter pins are also a "must have" to work on a bike that needs pins replaced. The BikeSmith pins are the only pins I've come across on a par with really good quality, vintage pins. In some cases the BikeSmith was actually a better pin than even the vintage ones were.

juvela

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came across this Manufrance catalogue Nr. 58 of 1900 with a listing for a somewhat familiar looking cotter pin press...



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AdventureManCO 

Alright sir, I’m here, and volunteering for the next set of coffered crank carnage pictures to be posted to this thread. The cheap actually-sort-of-nice dept store bike whining at me from the garage is getting too loud

I’ll get behind whoever is currently last on the list.


Iowa10Speed are you the current torch bearer?

Iowa10Speed

Just got back from fishing. Yes, I have the press safely wrapped in 12" of bubble wrap. PM sent!

Road Fan

Use the Mechanics Forum to seek out big screws - Oops, sorry, big NAILS to be pounded in! And start to hire a team of horses to help wield the tool!