So what will be the "newest" thing in gearing.
07-13-22, 11:58 AM
#76
OM boy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,359
Bikes: a bunch
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked 639 Times
in
435 Posts
...
I am of the belief that the high end gearing on bikes is mostly overkill ,and that the low end isn't low enough. You'll find 50-36 up front and 11-28 to maybe 11-32 in the back on most road bikes. Few riders need that 50 front ring. Most bicyclists could do quite well with 46-11 on the high end. That nets you 30 MPH at a 90 RPM cadence and 36 MPH spinning up to a 110 cadence. What riders would that not serve well? Very few.
On the low end, 36 front-28 back is 34 gear inches and 36-32 is 29 gear inches. Mere mortal riders who ride steep conditions, long climbs, loaded climbs or rough climbs will find themselves wanting with that kind of gearing. Getting that down to 20 gear inches would suit most riders much better. A readily available GRX 46-30 crankset with the readily available 11-42 cassette gets you into the 18 gear inch range. Problem solved right? NOPE. You'll not find drop bar shifter/brake levers that will run that.
My guess is that the newest trend in gearing will cater to mortals by offering 46-30 11-42 gearing. Who among us would find that inadequate and why? Very few racers and sport riders.
I am of the belief that the high end gearing on bikes is mostly overkill ,and that the low end isn't low enough. You'll find 50-36 up front and 11-28 to maybe 11-32 in the back on most road bikes. Few riders need that 50 front ring. Most bicyclists could do quite well with 46-11 on the high end. That nets you 30 MPH at a 90 RPM cadence and 36 MPH spinning up to a 110 cadence. What riders would that not serve well? Very few.
On the low end, 36 front-28 back is 34 gear inches and 36-32 is 29 gear inches. Mere mortal riders who ride steep conditions, long climbs, loaded climbs or rough climbs will find themselves wanting with that kind of gearing. Getting that down to 20 gear inches would suit most riders much better. A readily available GRX 46-30 crankset with the readily available 11-42 cassette gets you into the 18 gear inch range. Problem solved right? NOPE. You'll not find drop bar shifter/brake levers that will run that.
My guess is that the newest trend in gearing will cater to mortals by offering 46-30 11-42 gearing. Who among us would find that inadequate and why? Very few racers and sport riders.
These statements certainly come from a non-racer - and provides no substantiation... The gearing offered would not be adequate in ANY ROAD RACING situation.
nuff
'Sport rider', would depend on the rider and how, where and with whom else they ride...
none of this is assumption of what a 'loaded' offroad bikepacker might want/need. I would never assume for that situation.
I have a gravel bike, 10 spd 1x , 38 x 11-48. I like it a lot for riding in a huge variety of conditions. I would certainly find it OK for riding with a 'social, unhurried, mixed ability' group. But never with a sporty, road group. I've never used the 40 or 48 cogs. I have fairly ok handling skills, but not 'trials' skills - I can't imagine a slope/conditions where I could ride with a 48 - would be way too steep and/or way to unstable surface, at way too slow a speed. This all under more 'mtb' type off-road and very/very little which might be consider 'gravel'
but I'm ok with having the gearing, cause it might come in handy at some point.
back to 'sport road' riding. My ability to ride with some faster groups is dependent on having smaller gearing spreads in the primary riding gears used for flats and rolling terrain AND having the 'just right' gearing for climbs.
a difficult mix to get - and maybe, down the road having a few more gears to select from might be needed - but for now, what I have seems adequate. RIding in a group at 24+ ish mph requires optimum gear selection to best match your own best power/cadence capabilities, and that requires gear ranges with narrower 'jumps', otherwise you'll quickly no longer be riding in the 'group'.
Continuous, variable, wide range gearing - sounds great - is already available and there is a rider in our Sunday group who has that, with belt drive. I've yet to really bug him with a slew of Questions I have... LOL! but I will be bugging him !!! He does ride it well, and often passes me on some climbs (not a very hard thing to do...) hangs in as well as I do...
i need to find out more detail. I'll get a pic and some info to share here...
A real question is how well riders can adapt to using something with no real 'steps'... Does 'Continuous, variable - many gearing steps/choices' hinder selection of an optimum gear, in a timely fashion? Don;t have an answer.
It would have to undergo actual longterm use, to understand the real effect, become accustomed, and 'learn' how to properly use. The rider I mentioned above seems to have 'adapted' well.
It's my hope to be able to give this type of system a longterm 'try' at some point. It has huge possibilities... If my underpowered CPU can wrap it processing power around this reality.
Assuming we don;t do ourselves in ... (human extinction or post-apocalypse), 'cycling' is barely at the 'steam-power' stage of evolution. I would expect some interesting and great things lie ahead.
since I'm not smart enough to figure that out - I just try to pay attention and observe...
Ride On
Yuri
Likes For cyclezen:
07-13-22, 12:00 PM
#77
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
Likes For WhyFi:
07-13-22, 12:29 PM
#78
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,608
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10954 Post(s)
Liked 7,482 Times
in
4,184 Posts
Likes For mstateglfr:
07-13-22, 12:59 PM
#79
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 17,936
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10413 Post(s)
Liked 11,874 Times
in
6,081 Posts
A great philosopher once wrote
You have way too many gears
For all-around riding over a variety of surfaces and terrain, you need eight gears:
.......
Petersen, Grant. Just Ride: A Radically Practical Guide to Riding Your Bike (p. 5). Workman Publishing Company. Kindle Edition.
You have way too many gears
For all-around riding over a variety of surfaces and terrain, you need eight gears:
.......
Petersen, Grant. Just Ride: A Radically Practical Guide to Riding Your Bike (p. 5). Workman Publishing Company. Kindle Edition.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
Likes For genejockey:
07-13-22, 01:02 PM
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 4,471
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 960 Post(s)
Liked 1,626 Times
in
1,044 Posts
What ever the case I am sure it will be of a proprietary design, requiring proprietary tools, and proprietary service.
Off the OP I was looking at the FAA requirements for service on a commercial aircraft engine. Rats... Ya can't even check the oil without being special...
Off the OP I was looking at the FAA requirements for service on a commercial aircraft engine. Rats... Ya can't even check the oil without being special...
__________________
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
07-13-22, 01:13 PM
#81
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 17,936
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10413 Post(s)
Liked 11,874 Times
in
6,081 Posts
A great philosopher once wrote
You have way too many gears
For all-around riding over a variety of surfaces and terrain, you need eight gears:
.......
Petersen, Grant. Just Ride: A Radically Practical Guide to Riding Your Bike (p. 5). Workman Publishing Company. Kindle Edition.
You have way too many gears
For all-around riding over a variety of surfaces and terrain, you need eight gears:
.......
Petersen, Grant. Just Ride: A Radically Practical Guide to Riding Your Bike (p. 5). Workman Publishing Company. Kindle Edition.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
Likes For genejockey:
07-13-22, 03:16 PM
#82
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,489
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1083 Post(s)
Liked 684 Times
in
440 Posts
I don't know if you've read his book cover to cover, but an "unracer" is anyone that does not concern themselves so much with going faster and further and optimizing their cadence, constantly shifting to maintain that cadence and trying to emulate bicycle racing. They simply get on their bikes and ride for the joy of riding. He even clarifies what he means by specifically suggesting that we go back to riding bikes the same way we did as kids - for fun. I think it would probably also include people that ride a bicycle as transportation. Simplicity, reliability, and serviceability is valued over having the newest features. That usually means fewer gears. Don't get hung up on 8 - that's just a number that he picked and certainly it's got a certain tongue-in-cheek quality to it. His point is that even if you'd prefer a few more than 8, you certainly don't need 30+.
Don't get me wrong. My Schwinn Continental had 10 speeds, which was a huge jump in usability from my old 3-speed Schwinn. More really was better. I felt like I would be able to ride anywhere with all those gears. Ten! And I did ride that bike anywhere and everywhere, delivered my paper route in all kinds of conditions, and rode that thing all over. All those miles on that bike and I don't think I ever once thought "I need more gears". I've never thought that about any bicycle - that I needed more gears. I think you reach the point of diminishing returns pretty quickly when you start talking about adding more gears, and most bikes being sold these days really do have way too many.
Last edited by Jeff Neese; 07-13-22 at 03:19 PM.
Likes For Jeff Neese:
07-13-22, 03:44 PM
#83
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 2,035
Bikes: addict, aethos, creo, vanmoof, sirrus, public ...
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1273 Post(s)
Liked 1,391 Times
in
709 Posts
i disagree. some bikes sold have “too many” gears for some purposes. i live in a hilly place, am reasonably strong but far from a pro, and greatly enjoy going up huge hills and going fast on flats and downhill. i have three bikes - one with 4 gears (sturmey archer IGH), one with 11 (1x11) from 42/10 to 42/42 and one with “24” (2x12) from 52/11 to 36/34.
the 2x12 is absolutely more enjoyable to ride. no spinning out on all but the biggest descents - and i love pedaling downhill - a big enough gear to go up long steep hills, and the middle ones are close enough together that there’s always one which feels just right for gradual rolling terrain and flats at any reasonable speed. i would absolutely not sacrifice the range, but could probably live with some slightly larger jumps, like the 1x bike has. but why? it’s not too many. it’s really, really satisfying to ride in just about any condition i’ll take it to. and the nearly instant “snick” of an electronic shift from the 11-15 cogs, all one tooth apart, or the two cog jumps from 15-21 is just super satisfying. it makes the bike more enjoyable to ride than the other two, and isn’t that what it’s all about?
the condescension of the “your bike has too many gears / is too expensive / is too complicated / is too light / is too fragile / was foisted on you by big bike” crowd is all based on the false premise that people somehow don’t know what brings them pleasure. we’re not all suckers at the mercy of bike manufacturers. there’s a lot of choice out there, from belt drives with IGH to fixies to 1x and 2x and 3x with electronic or manual shifting in a zillion ranges of ring and cassette configurations. way more choice than you’d expect given the total size of the bike industry.
the 2x12 is absolutely more enjoyable to ride. no spinning out on all but the biggest descents - and i love pedaling downhill - a big enough gear to go up long steep hills, and the middle ones are close enough together that there’s always one which feels just right for gradual rolling terrain and flats at any reasonable speed. i would absolutely not sacrifice the range, but could probably live with some slightly larger jumps, like the 1x bike has. but why? it’s not too many. it’s really, really satisfying to ride in just about any condition i’ll take it to. and the nearly instant “snick” of an electronic shift from the 11-15 cogs, all one tooth apart, or the two cog jumps from 15-21 is just super satisfying. it makes the bike more enjoyable to ride than the other two, and isn’t that what it’s all about?
the condescension of the “your bike has too many gears / is too expensive / is too complicated / is too light / is too fragile / was foisted on you by big bike” crowd is all based on the false premise that people somehow don’t know what brings them pleasure. we’re not all suckers at the mercy of bike manufacturers. there’s a lot of choice out there, from belt drives with IGH to fixies to 1x and 2x and 3x with electronic or manual shifting in a zillion ranges of ring and cassette configurations. way more choice than you’d expect given the total size of the bike industry.
Likes For mschwett:
07-13-22, 03:47 PM
#84
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 17,936
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10413 Post(s)
Liked 11,874 Times
in
6,081 Posts
i disagree. Some bikes sold have “too many” gears for some purposes. I live in a hilly place, am reasonably strong but far from a pro, and greatly enjoy going up huge hills and going fast on flats and downhill. I have three bikes - one with 4 gears (sturmey archer igh), one with 11 (1x11) from 42/10 to 42/42 and one with “24” (2x12) from 52/11 to 36/34.
The 2x12 is absolutely more enjoyable to ride. No spinning out on all but the biggest descents - and i love pedaling downhill - a big enough gear to go up long steep hills, and the middle ones are close enough together that there’s always one which feels just right for gradual rolling terrain and flats at any reasonable speed. I would absolutely not sacrifice the range, but could probably live with some slightly larger jumps, like the 1x bike has. But why? It’s not too many. It’s really, really satisfying to ride in just about any condition i’ll take it to. And the nearly instant “snick” of an electronic shift from the 11-15 cogs, all one tooth apart, or the two cog jumps from 15-21 is just super satisfying. It makes the bike more enjoyable to ride than the other two, and isn’t that what it’s all about?
the condescension of the “your bike has too many gears / is too expensive / is too complicated / is too light / is too fragile / was foisted on you by big bike” crowd is all based on the false premise that people somehow don’t know what brings them pleasure. we’re not all suckers at the mercy of bike manufacturers. There’s a lot of choice out there, from belt drives with igh to fixies to 1x and 2x and 3x with electronic or manual shifting in a zillion ranges of ring and cassette configurations. Way more choice than you’d expect given the total size of the bike industry.
The 2x12 is absolutely more enjoyable to ride. No spinning out on all but the biggest descents - and i love pedaling downhill - a big enough gear to go up long steep hills, and the middle ones are close enough together that there’s always one which feels just right for gradual rolling terrain and flats at any reasonable speed. I would absolutely not sacrifice the range, but could probably live with some slightly larger jumps, like the 1x bike has. But why? It’s not too many. It’s really, really satisfying to ride in just about any condition i’ll take it to. And the nearly instant “snick” of an electronic shift from the 11-15 cogs, all one tooth apart, or the two cog jumps from 15-21 is just super satisfying. It makes the bike more enjoyable to ride than the other two, and isn’t that what it’s all about?
the condescension of the “your bike has too many gears / is too expensive / is too complicated / is too light / is too fragile / was foisted on you by big bike” crowd is all based on the false premise that people somehow don’t know what brings them pleasure. we’re not all suckers at the mercy of bike manufacturers. There’s a lot of choice out there, from belt drives with igh to fixies to 1x and 2x and 3x with electronic or manual shifting in a zillion ranges of ring and cassette configurations. Way more choice than you’d expect given the total size of the bike industry.
This!
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
07-13-22, 03:52 PM
#85
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 17,936
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10413 Post(s)
Liked 11,874 Times
in
6,081 Posts
I know that a lot of what Grant says generates lively debate. I personally find most of what he says to be spot-on. He's a very knowledgeable guy. Check out his video on Youtube called "The Big Bang Theory...of Bicycles". Very interesting.
I don't know if you've read his book cover to cover, but an "unracer" is anyone that does not concern themselves so much with going faster and further and optimizing their cadence, constantly shifting to maintain that cadence and trying to emulate bicycle racing. They simply get on their bikes and ride for the joy of riding. He even clarifies what he means by specifically suggesting that we go back to riding bikes the same way we did as kids - for fun. I think it would probably also include people that ride a bicycle as transportation. Simplicity, reliability, and serviceability is valued over having the newest features. That usually means fewer gears. Don't get hung up on 8 - that's just a number that he picked and certainly it's got a certain tongue-in-cheek quality to it. His point is that even if you'd prefer a few more than 8, you certainly don't need 30+.
Don't get me wrong. My Schwinn Continental had 10 speeds, which was a huge jump in usability from my old 3-speed Schwinn. More really was better. I felt like I would be able to ride anywhere with all those gears. Ten! And I did ride that bike anywhere and everywhere, delivered my paper route in all kinds of conditions, and rode that thing all over. All those miles on that bike and I don't think I ever once thought "I need more gears". I've never thought that about any bicycle - that I needed more gears. I think you reach the point of diminishing returns pretty quickly when you start talking about adding more gears, and most bikes being sold these days really do have way too many.
I don't know if you've read his book cover to cover, but an "unracer" is anyone that does not concern themselves so much with going faster and further and optimizing their cadence, constantly shifting to maintain that cadence and trying to emulate bicycle racing. They simply get on their bikes and ride for the joy of riding. He even clarifies what he means by specifically suggesting that we go back to riding bikes the same way we did as kids - for fun. I think it would probably also include people that ride a bicycle as transportation. Simplicity, reliability, and serviceability is valued over having the newest features. That usually means fewer gears. Don't get hung up on 8 - that's just a number that he picked and certainly it's got a certain tongue-in-cheek quality to it. His point is that even if you'd prefer a few more than 8, you certainly don't need 30+.
Don't get me wrong. My Schwinn Continental had 10 speeds, which was a huge jump in usability from my old 3-speed Schwinn. More really was better. I felt like I would be able to ride anywhere with all those gears. Ten! And I did ride that bike anywhere and everywhere, delivered my paper route in all kinds of conditions, and rode that thing all over. All those miles on that bike and I don't think I ever once thought "I need more gears". I've never thought that about any bicycle - that I needed more gears. I think you reach the point of diminishing returns pretty quickly when you start talking about adding more gears, and most bikes being sold these days really do have way too many.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
07-13-22, 04:31 PM
#86
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
I don't know if you've read his book cover to cover, but an "unracer" is anyone that does not concern themselves so much with going faster and further and optimizing their cadence, constantly shifting to maintain that cadence and trying to emulate bicycle racing. They simply get on their bikes and ride for the joy of riding.
07-13-22, 04:49 PM
#87
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,945
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3947 Post(s)
Liked 7,291 Times
in
2,945 Posts
So, more than 8 is okay, as long as it's not more than 30? Awesome.
Likes For tomato coupe:
07-13-22, 05:07 PM
#89
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
07-13-22, 05:13 PM
#90
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 4,471
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 960 Post(s)
Liked 1,626 Times
in
1,044 Posts
"Too many gears your Highness..."
__________________
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
Likes For zandoval:
07-13-22, 06:36 PM
#91
OM boy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,359
Bikes: a bunch
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked 639 Times
in
435 Posts
I know that a lot of what Grant says generates lively debate. I personally find most of what he says to be spot-on. He's a very knowledgeable guy. Check out his video on Youtube called "The Big Bang Theory...of Bicycles". Very interesting.
... but an "unracer" is anyone that does not concern themselves so much with going faster and further and optimizing their cadence, constantly shifting to maintain that cadence and trying to emulate bicycle racing. They simply get on their bikes and ride for the joy of riding. He even clarifies what he means by specifically suggesting that we go back to riding bikes the same way we did as kids - for fun. I think it would probably also include people that ride a bicycle as transportation. Simplicity, reliability, and serviceability is valued over having the newest features. That usually means fewer gears. Don't get hung up on 8 - that's just a number that he picked and certainly it's got a certain tongue-in-cheek quality to it. His point is that even if you'd prefer a few more than 8, you certainly don't need 30+.
Don't get me wrong. My Schwinn Continental had 10 speeds, which was a huge jump in usability from my old 3-speed Schwinn. More really was better. I felt like I would be able to ride anywhere with all those gears. Ten! And I did ride that bike anywhere and everywhere, delivered my paper route in all kinds of conditions, and rode that thing all over. All those miles on that bike and I don't think I ever once thought "I need more gears". I've never thought that about any bicycle - that I needed more gears. I think you reach the point of diminishing returns pretty quickly when you start talking about adding more gears, andmost bikes being sold these days really do have way too many.
... but an "unracer" is anyone that does not concern themselves so much with going faster and further and optimizing their cadence, constantly shifting to maintain that cadence and trying to emulate bicycle racing. They simply get on their bikes and ride for the joy of riding. He even clarifies what he means by specifically suggesting that we go back to riding bikes the same way we did as kids - for fun. I think it would probably also include people that ride a bicycle as transportation. Simplicity, reliability, and serviceability is valued over having the newest features.
Don't get me wrong. My Schwinn Continental had 10 speeds, which was a huge jump in usability from my old 3-speed Schwinn. More really was better. I felt like I would be able to ride anywhere with all those gears. Ten! And I did ride that bike anywhere and everywhere, delivered my paper route in all kinds of conditions, and rode that thing all over. All those miles on that bike and I don't think I ever once thought "I need more gears". I've never thought that about any bicycle - that I needed more gears. I think you reach the point of diminishing returns pretty quickly when you start talking about adding more gears, and
Grant is so intent on making his point and pressing his view that he goes beyond a sermon, to the point of almost diatribe. If what he constantly points out, that the latest technology is not 'necessary' and may in fact 'detract' from the essence of cycling (which is already a pigeonholing of cycling on his part), let's then make that same comparison between 'his' idea of bike and the Big Box bike... A competent rider/owner/DIY mechanic can as easily make a Big Box bike work well and last as long as any of the bikes he espouses. really. So what's the point of his bikes, using his rationalizations... (lets clarify - 'rationalization' is not the same as being 'rational', they are opposites - rationalization molds idea/thought/reality to fit what one desires, being rational looks at these things and from that comes a rational conclusion). What's the point of his bikes as compared to Big Box bikes? Exactly the same considerations which come into play between his bikes and the Latest Tech.
The latest tech goes thru the same conditions of use, the same proof of function, serviceability, and reliability. Some proves worthy, some falls away - as it did with older stuff and the 'New' stuff using older concepts.
improving something, without altering it's essential nature, is always a good thing - so improving the bicycle is a good thing.
the naysayers said CF frames, low spoke count wheels, thinner, lighter chains clipless pedals, etc were no good, gonna fail... they were wrong
Knocking one way to use, to like something, in order to make your own way 'correct' is always a 'BIG FAIL'
riding a bike with 1, 3, 5, 10 or any amount of gears is always a good thing - different, but not lesser.
'New Tech', lighter, more aero, etc is good, But anyone's choice to not choose this new stuff is also good/ok. You wanna ride a 'bent/unicycle/tricycle, all good.
Grant would be better served by promoting all rather than diminishing some.
There is no such thing as too many gears - however, the user determines what they actually can use and need. Let them make that decision.
Same can be said for everything cycling - CF, Steel,,Alu, Ti or Bamboo.
Most all of us ride bikes 'for the fun of it - like being a kid', that includes many who use bikes for work or transport, or any other reason.
Ride On
Yuri
Last edited by cyclezen; 07-13-22 at 11:25 PM.
Likes For cyclezen:
07-13-22, 06:52 PM
#92
Senior Member
I suspect at some point that real world gearing will creep into the drop bar segment. Let me 'splain.
I am of the belief that the high end gearing on bikes is mostly overkill ,and that the low end isn't low enough. You'll find 50-36 up front and 11-28 to maybe 11-32 in the back on most road bikes. Few riders need that 50 front ring. Most bicyclists could do quite well with 46-11 on the high end. That nets you 30 MPH at a 90 RPM cadence and 36 MPH spinning up to a 110 cadence. What riders would that not serve well? Very few.
I am of the belief that the high end gearing on bikes is mostly overkill ,and that the low end isn't low enough. You'll find 50-36 up front and 11-28 to maybe 11-32 in the back on most road bikes. Few riders need that 50 front ring. Most bicyclists could do quite well with 46-11 on the high end. That nets you 30 MPH at a 90 RPM cadence and 36 MPH spinning up to a 110 cadence. What riders would that not serve well? Very few.
07-13-22, 07:34 PM
#93
ignominious poltroon
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 4,028
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2237 Post(s)
Liked 3,427 Times
in
1,793 Posts
The 1X^{2}.
Although it superficially resembles the single-speed, the 1X^{2}, or 1X1X, will be the latest, next-generation, cutting-edge technology, and is fully compatible with the latest wireless electronic shifting, using an open-source libreadmind.dylib, and fully engages the cyclist's creative cognitive processes in modulating the drive-train experience. The rider becomes one with the machine.
Although it superficially resembles the single-speed, the 1X^{2}, or 1X1X, will be the latest, next-generation, cutting-edge technology, and is fully compatible with the latest wireless electronic shifting, using an open-source libreadmind.dylib, and fully engages the cyclist's creative cognitive processes in modulating the drive-train experience. The rider becomes one with the machine.
07-13-22, 09:08 PM
#94
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,272
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8271 Post(s)
Liked 9,022 Times
in
4,468 Posts
The newer Campagnolo 12 speed looks pretty good to me.
07-13-22, 09:48 PM
#95
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 17,936
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10413 Post(s)
Liked 11,874 Times
in
6,081 Posts
He even clarifies what he means by specifically suggesting that we go back to riding bikes the same way we did as kids - for fun.
So, on today's ride, I climb up to the top of Alpine road and see how fast I can go before I get to the turn at Portola, then I bomb along Portola, turn onto Mountain Home, and fly down it from Manzanita down to the intersection with 84. Same kind of riding, same thrills I got as a 14 year old kid, 50 years ago. Except I have a MUCH better bike and I ride a lot farther.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
07-14-22, 12:24 AM
#96
Senior Member
They simply get on their bikes and ride for the joy of riding.
All those miles on that bike and I don't think I ever once thought "I need more gears". I've never thought that about any bicycle - that I needed more gears.
Last edited by HTupolev; 07-14-22 at 12:36 AM.
07-14-22, 04:28 AM
#97
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,483
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7649 Post(s)
Liked 3,469 Times
in
1,832 Posts
This thread has taken a few disturbing turns toward the rational, but luckily a few crazy posts still leaven the mix.
Everyone should ride like a kid, for fun .... and no one ever wants more gears, but boy howdy, was a thrilled to get a 3-speed Sturmey Archer IGH Robin Hood, and boy howdy, did I want and love that 10-speed (42-pound) Schwinn. And I still ride for fun ....
Grant Peterson has turned himself into a brand, almost a parody, I do not buy his philosophies or his overpriced bikes. But he is free to say and do whatever ....
And Rivendell sells bikes with more than eight cogs and a single chainring .... (https://www.rivbike.com/products/roadini) (https://www.rivbike.com/products/fra...hillborne-2020) Hypocrite ....
Everyone should ride like a kid, for fun .... and no one ever wants more gears, but boy howdy, was a thrilled to get a 3-speed Sturmey Archer IGH Robin Hood, and boy howdy, did I want and love that 10-speed (42-pound) Schwinn. And I still ride for fun ....
Grant Peterson has turned himself into a brand, almost a parody, I do not buy his philosophies or his overpriced bikes. But he is free to say and do whatever ....
And Rivendell sells bikes with more than eight cogs and a single chainring .... (https://www.rivbike.com/products/roadini) (https://www.rivbike.com/products/fra...hillborne-2020) Hypocrite ....
Likes For rydabent: