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'More cyclists are being killed by cars. Advocates say U.S. streets are the pro

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'More cyclists are being killed by cars. Advocates say U.S. streets are the pro

Old 07-21-22, 06:18 AM
  #26  
Paul Barnard
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Originally Posted by koala logs
They'd rather "spend" (literally waste) money in extremely bloated military budgets.
The people building roads in suburbs are not the same people funding the military.
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Old 07-21-22, 12:38 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Rick
You are mostly correct. In those countries were there is respect for bicyclists there is also respect for the motorists and there are appropriate fines for miscreant bicyclists. My last year in the Army I was in Germany. I really enjoyed pedaling on German roads. I didn't see the feral bicycle riders and auto morons near as much as we have here in the USA. When I moved to Florida it was like a war zone. The attitude that bicycles didn't belong on the rode was very prevalent.
Ditto France
Cycling is a marker for thoughtful transportation infrastructure and cooperation
We mock German cooperation and respect for order, but they do that because they're better at working together and trust each other more.
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Old 07-21-22, 12:48 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Leinster
I’m never not a fan of rails to trails. Unless the rail still works.
Ride the GAP, great ride and one of the best rail to trails in the USA. Whats your logic for disliking bike or MUTs?
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Old 07-22-22, 12:09 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by N2deep
Ride the GAP, great ride and one of the best rail to trails in the USA. Whats your logic for disliking bike or MUTs?
I think you missed my double negative.

i love MUPs, and use a rail-trail on a regular basis here. My concern about them is if they replace what could have been a valid train route; and just because “it’s cheaper to drive” doesn’t mean the train route isn’t valid.

The rail-trail I use still has a track; the only service on it is a tourist-oriented high$ meal-service slow ride through the valley. Meanwhile, the 2 main roads through the valley are congested, and businesses up-valley are shuttering because they can’t get staff. There’s room for bikes AND trains, but the train co has their business model and has no interest in providing a community service.
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Old 07-22-22, 12:59 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by greatbasin
I would like to see more high-school cycling. People in high-school can be taught that cycling is not just the childish activity that they left behind as they graduate to motoring. They can be introduced to adult cycling as sport, recreation and transportation. They can be inspired by cycling as a sport as much as by any of the other alternatives to the top three, like golf, tennis, swimming, soccer, lacrosse, wrestling, gymnastics, track and field, volleyball... Many of these activities can be engaged in recreationally as well as competitively, and recreation and fitness are certainly worthy of our attention for their benefits to our mental well-being and physical health. Cycling, however, has significance beyond all these other things as a legitimate means of transportation. I don't need to extoll all the virtues of cycling for transportation here. It suffices that it is not merely another game.

If our society sees cycling, whether for competition, recreation, commuting, or getting around, as a valuable part of the transportation infrastructure with its often enumerated benefits to our cities and towns, our environment, our people's health, and much more, then it ought to be better promoted where our society's people are forming their impressions and opinions about transportation, at the high-school level.
I tend to agree, and feel that a mandatory cycling class and some road time should be required before one takes drivers ed.
Exceptions might be given for those who might qualify for a handicap license... but that should be judged individually.

And no, I disagree with the thread title... roads are fine... it's generally the "other users" on the road that cause the most issues.
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Old 07-22-22, 01:03 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep
It's very apparent in the US that cost is the #1 driver in decision making with infrastructure, not the value of lives. Be it pedestrians, cyclists, otherwise.

You see all these new suburbs pop up without sidewalks and people cramming cars on street parking to clog it more..........because right sized lots and driveways and sidewalks cost more.

AKA..........we're stupid and selfish.
Safety isn't a big "driver" in road design either... "flow" has a higher priority. Oddly, you can get more people through on a road in a bus or bike than single individuals in a car... but the "car" gets priority in our system, not people.
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Old 07-22-22, 01:17 PM
  #32  
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"flow" is not going to happen when a fast food or cafe is placed a long a busy road & the right lane is its primary entrance point.
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Old 07-22-22, 05:36 PM
  #33  
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Just "cash flow" through the drive-thru registers. Even better, sell sugar and caffeine to motorists.


This is a screen-grab from Not Just Bikes latest video on trains in Switzerland. He was reveling in how civilized this scene it compared to people traveling in the US and Canada and being stuck in traffic in their individual cars. I've not been to Switzerland, but had a similar experience to the scene above on trains in the UK, even a short train ride from a suburb outside London into the city. In the US, this wouldn't happen except perhaps on a much longer Amtrak route. Drive-thrus are the way people receive refreshments in a car-centric culture. Perhaps when the cars are driven by means other than the occupants, we might see people reading and enjoying coffee or tea whilst underway.

US culture isn't car-centric in vain though. First of all, cars represent the aspirations of many people. Young people aspiring to a higher status attain the appearance of achieving that with a better car. Older people often collect the cars they coveted when they were younger but weren't able to obtain and are now classics. Pretty sure people do that with bicycles too, but cars signify one's station in life far more distinctly than a bicycle. US car culture isn't just about status and the symbols of it though. Car culture is inextricably linked with suburbia as a whole and suburbia creates opportunities for home ownership. If home ownership weren't the aspirations of most Americans as part of the "American Dream," home ownership has also been encouraged by government subsidized mortgages, tax breaks, bailouts, and monetary policy. The kind of homes Americans want to own have a yard, with big lawns for the kids to play on, RV parking, and at least a three-car garage with a space for the boat to take to the lake on the weekends. Besides cars and boats, they want motorcycles, ATV's, side-by-sides, snowmobiles, jet-skis and more. How about just paddleboards and kayaks? Not going to take those on the bus or train. All this just doesn't fit-in with European-style cities or any urban-core environment. This is why Americans invented the mountain bike -- the bike that's driven by car or truck to the trail, ridden, and then returned home by automobile.
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Old 07-22-22, 10:28 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by greatbasin
This is a screen-grab from Not Just Bikes latest video on trains in Switzerland. He was reveling in how civilized this scene it compared to people traveling in the US and Canada and being stuck in traffic in their individual cars.
Why didn't he compare the train scene to people traveling in Switzerland being stuck in traffic in their individual cars? Did he think that nobody in Switzerland drives their own car? I suspect that some of them even partake in products with sugar and caffeine too.
https://www.iamexpat.ch/expat-info/s...itzerland-2021
Extract:
In 2021, the Federal Roads Office (FEDRO) recorded 32.481 hours' worth of traffic jams on Swiss roads and motorways.

After a significant slump recorded in 2020, mainly due to COVID lockdowns, FEDRO said that traffic levels in 2021 were some of the worst it has ever recorded. In all, 32.481 hours' worth of jams were detected across the whole 12 months.

This means that, on average, there were 40 separate traffic jams every day lasting longer than two hours. In some areas, such as passes through the Swiss mountains, traffic jams stretched for up to 15 kilometres, especially during the school holidays.
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Old 07-22-22, 11:35 PM
  #35  
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Yes, there were also traffic jams in Switzerland. But those who wished to not partake in them had other options. Most Americans have no such option.

switzerland is about the same size and population as the 9-County SF Bay Area. I live in city of 80,000 people, and literally the only way I know of to reliably travel to another city in the region is by car. (There is an airport bus service to SFO, it’s literally cheaper to park a car at the airport for 2 weeks than to bring a family of 5 on the bus).

And we’re supposed to be one of America’s BETTER regions for transit.
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Old 07-25-22, 12:33 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Steve B.
I watched a YT series of a couple crossing the country on touring bikes, Washington to Maine. They had stopped at the Adventure Cycling HQ in Missoula, who gave them a recommended route to Great Falls. Their experience was 2 lane roads with no or minimal shoulders and traffic passing by at 70 mph and giving no clearance. Even when there was no traffic oncoming, they spent a few days getting repeatedly buzzed by cars and trucks for no reason. When they asked about this at a restaurant, a local stated "Oh, folks from Montana HATE cyclists, is why". The couple promptly got on a plane to Kansas City to ride the Katy Trail, abandoning that part of their cross country. Their trip thru Indiana and Illinois was as expected, many back roads with no traffic and polite motorists,
I bicycled across Montana with no problem.

Originally Posted by Leinster
I’m never not a fan of rails to trails. Unless the rail still works.
There's a bicycle with an outrigger wheel for riding on RR tracks.
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Old 07-25-22, 06:53 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Arthur Peabody
I bicycled across Montana with no problem.
.
Yours is generally the experiences I've read about, but these folks were video documenting and captured a few close calls on camera, so I could see their concerns. I think one issue they encountered is there are few long distance thru routes in Montana that are east/west, so once they committed to a route, there are few detour options. For all I know, once they got past Great falls the roads might have improved.
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Old 07-26-22, 03:49 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Troul
"flow" is not going to happen when a fast food or cafe is placed a long a busy road & the right lane is its primary entrance point.
Then tax revenue takes priority, but safety is still much lower on the list.
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Old 07-26-22, 10:09 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by genec
Then tax revenue takes priority, but safety is still much lower on the list.
exactly.
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Old 07-27-22, 03:46 PM
  #40  
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Drivers are the problem. Not cars or a flaw in road design. There are too many drivers who don't obey the rules, are distracted by their phones and use their vehicles as weapons to intimidate and assault other road users.
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Old 07-28-22, 01:06 AM
  #41  
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Streets aren’t the problem, lax licensing standards are the problem. Here in Japan getting a drivers license is hard. The written test has 200 questions, the road test is no joke, and the $3000 cost for driving school and licensing fees are even less funny. Most people fail the written test on the first try, everyone fails the road test on the first try. A surprising number of people never pass. Japan makes sure that all drivers know the rules of the road, especially when it comes to bicycles and pedestrians. The first time you renew your license you are required to sit through a one hour safety lecture complete with videos of simulated accidents with bicycles and pedestrians. Following renewals have shorter lectures, but safety is emphasized repeatedly, as well as the consequences for not driving safely.

Want to try driving without a license in Japan? Good luck with that. Japan’s criminal justice system is not something sane people want to deal with. Japan doesn’t believe in presumption of innocence, phone calls or access to a lawyer during questioning, and Japan doesn’t do bail.
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Old 07-31-22, 10:09 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Arthur Peabody
The reason for that is more fools are on their smart phones. Smart phones should shut themselves of if moving faster than 10mph.
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Old 07-31-22, 12:03 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by rydabent
The reason for that is more fools are on their smart phones. Smart phones should shut themselves of if moving faster than 10mph.
That would receive pushback for two big reasons:
1. If the driver has an emergency and needs to dial 911, they won't have the ability.
2. This would essentially be the government mandating that people have their GPS location active all the time.
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