toddsp

I purchased a Sirrus x 2.0 about a week ago and now I’m wondering if it was the right choice. I like the fact that it’s a 1x and I’ve already changed the tires from 42mm to 32mm in the hopes if gaining some speed and lowering resistance but I’m not sure if I’ve gained too much speed and need more gears. I took it for a ride after the tire change and for the most part the top gear (8 speed) was enough but a couple of times I would have shifted up if there were more gears. The bike was designed as an 8 speed with 42mm tires so was that change too much?

The other bike I was looking at was the Trek FX3 (10 speed) that already comes with 32mm tires. It has a 11-46T cassette vs 12-42T on the Sirrus but I’m not sure how those numbers translate to the real world. Both bikes come with a 40T chainring. My question is… would the FX3 be noticeably harder to pedal in the top gear (11T) vs the Sirrus in top gear (12T)? On paper, it seems like an insignificant difference. If I hear that it’s a noticeable difference I may exchange the Sirrus for the FX3. Obviously, the Trek has more range but it’s mostly on the low end (46 vs 42) as opposed to the high end (11 vs 12). Does one tooth make that much of a difference?

Also, in general, is one of these bikes more highly regarded than the other?

mschwett 

one tooth makes a big difference at the high end, since it’s a proportional thing. with a 40T up front every time you pedal in the 12t rear the wheel goes around 3.33 times. with an 11t it would go around 3.64 times, which is close to 10% more. so it’s about 10% “harder” to pedal and you’ll go 10% faster for the same pedaling speed. that’s a pretty big difference. the 4 tooth difference at the low end is similar, close to 10%.

if you don’t need the hill climbing low end, easiest this is to swap to a bigger chainring. may also require a longer chain but overall very straightforward.

jadmt

the difference between a 40x11 and 40x12 with a 32mm tire is at 90 rpms the 11 tooth you will be going 26mph and the 12 24mph and on the 42 vs 46 at 60rpms you would be going 4mph with the 46 vs 5mph with the 42. as far as speed goes the 42mm would give you 1mph faster at 90 rpm vs the 32mm 25 vs 24 so not a lot of difference. I run a 40x11-42 8speed on a converted mountain bike and works fine for general riding around. I run 26x2.3 tires on it. I also have a 1x11 with 11-42 and 42 chain ring and it is a lot nicer for general riding.

cyclezen

It's hard to have conversation if the 'language' is not common to all in the discussion. 'Top', High, Low or whatever only makes sense when all parties are understanding the elements of it.
Here's a URL to an Online Gear Calculator, you can put in however many chainrings (front rings) on a bike, and then select the 'cog range' with the number of cogs/gears and range in the rear. You wouldn't have much 8 spd selectin, but you can individually move each 'cog' to the matching position of whatever your bike's cassette cogs are (number of teeth on each cog). You need to determine that.
You then put in the Wheel/Tire size to match. For '700C' you would use the '28' wheel size.
The resulting chart gives the various resulting 'gear ratio' of each combination of front ring and rear cog. You can choose between metric and English. The chart can be adjusted for 'cadence' rpm (how quickly you turn the cranks), which then varies the resulting kph/mph.
For 50+ years I've been drilled and stuck in 'gears inches' (Englsh/mph), not 'development' (metric/kph), so that's what I relate to.
The key is to match the gear ratio with what you perceive to be the type of riding you do with them. For example, I use my 50ring with either 16 or 17 a lot, for just rolling down the road. That's 78 to 83 ish gear inches. If I want to push hard, I might go some gears higher, to 15 or 14, but they commensurately become harder to turn. I would use a much lower gear for steep hills like a 34-21 or 24, which would be a gear range of 43 to 38 gear inches.
Put in your current gearing numbers, compare to what you actually uses them for, and then you can make some decision on what to change, add, or maybe vary in your use of gears.
Higher cadences put less load on the muscles for each pedal stroke, but put increasingly greater load on your cardio/heart...
A 'Higher' gear like 11 vs 12 cog, using the same chainring size, doesn't really mean you'll be able to go faster at any point, or be able to hold that speed - that's all determined by the 'motor's fitness and power - that being you.
... there is a 'compare' button, which allows you to put 2 different gear sets next to each other and compare.
Ride On
Yuri

rosefarts

1x is quite simple and clean. Works great and looks good.

But for 8 speeds the jumps between gears is pretty huge. Or you have to sacrifice the high and low end for a smoother ride. Both of these are too wide range to be really excellent. 11 and 12 (13?) speed cassettes are finally making 1x a great option.

Expect the 12-42 to overall ride nicer on flatter roads but you won’t have nearly the gearing on steep up or down.

Expect to struggle to find a happy gear on the 11-46.

For this type of bike, I don’t know if it matters. Pick the one that you find more comfortable or fun.

livedarklions

People's legs vary a lot, so even though there's an objective mathematical answer how the 40x12 compares to the 40x11, the subjective "is it noticeable" is something people can only answer for themselves. mschwett is dead on with the math, but if you don't know how comfortable you'd be pushing the 12t, the comparison of 10% harder doesn't really mean anything. Honestly, I don't think there's any substitute for trying things for yourself.

raqball

My FX Sport 6 came with an 11-42 cassette and I've since swapped it out for a Garbaruk 11-46 cassette.. Those 4 extra teeth make a huge difference for me on climbs. I am 57 and can use all the help I can get when climbing and I am very happy I made the swap..

The garbaruk cassette has the exact same gearing except for the final gear which bumps it from a 42 to a 46..

I notice no difference whatsoever on flats but a huge difference on climbs when using the 46..

terrymorse 

As far as climbing fitness goes, 57 is young.

raqball

Tell that to my legs..

70sSanO

That Microshift 8 speed 12-42 (12-15-18-21-24-28-34-42) has pretty brutal gapping.

That 12-15 gap is a 25% increase at the top end. Even the 34-42 is less of a jump.

Most 9 or 10 speed wide range cassettes (11-42) will still have a 2t jump from 11t to 13t. More than I’d like, but still better than what you have.

Your Sirrus is running an Advent 9 rear derailleur. You could swap out the cassette for a 9 speed 11-42 and the 8 speed shifter for an Advent 9. Not the most fun thing to do with a new bike, but unless you can live with an 11-34 8 speed cassette, I don’t see another way to get more speed and fix that gap.

John

Moisture

its a really strange way to determine bike choice... changing to thinner tires is stranger still.

cyclezen

1x is good, simple and works well for off-road - gravel and mtb - it's hardly a good solution for 90% sport road riding. But then Hybrids aren't for that form of riding - I try to remember that many riders aren;t looking at 'road riding' with the same intent or ideas as I might.
Totally right about struggling to find a 'happy gear'. But then many riders don;t even grok the concept of 'happy gear'. For many it's a very rare experience and when it happens for just a few minutes, trying to replicate that isn;t understood... When they're actually 'spinning' a gear, they quickly find that they're not riding smoothly and breathing hard, so they shift to the next higher gear, which for just a very short while seems 'nice', 'smooth'. But in a 1/4 to 1/2 mi. the effort increases again and they bog down, so just slow down until it becomes 'comfortable again. Many don't realize that to go faster you have to either pedal faster or push harder, or ideally both. And they don;t know that there are happy gears available, but just not on their bikes with very wide gearing jumps.
... no, 1x does have it's short comings, even on 11 spd, unless you're willing to give up the 'Hi' or 'low' ends or lose something in the middle. But that's the huge spectrum of cycling, and that's OK.

True, Math and 'gearing' only means something when one has something real world to equate it to... IE spinning a 94 inch gear at 90 means nothing unless you have to do it so you don;t have to do the lonely, solo ride back - on a group ride. Same with riding an 48x11 at 60 rpm or at 85/90 rpm. same with climbing a longer 8-9% grade with a 45 inch or 32 inch gear.
We each 'Have To DO The Math' in real life for it to have some real meaning. Hence the disconnect on discussing what's 'good' or 'bad' or 'best'.

Word! That 1x 8spd is really a 1978 Schwinn Collegiate 5 spd (13-25) but now has a a further 3x bailout option...
But that doesn't 'fix' the problem in between. AS you note those 2 tooth jumps into the high teens cogs is better, but still very much compromise - to get a nice range of 'happy gears'.

OP - you also 'created' some of the issues you seem to be mulling over. Going from a 42 width to 32 width tire changes the 'effective wheel size' - the 32 is smaller in circumference and so in the same gear, at the same pedal cadence, you will go effectively slower. An option is to go back to a 40 or 42 tire which is just a 'faster' tire? Is this definitive? No, it's something, but only if you try it and find it so.
Whatever gear you choose, the only way to go 'faster' is to pedal faster.
Ride On
Yuri
EDIT : IE , not FYI... LOL!

Maelochs

The speed iof the bike has zero to do with how many cogs it has on the cassette (the stack of gears on the rear wheel) and very little to do with the width of the tire.

A wider tire will be heavier and a little slower, and if you are riding over 20 mph Slightly less aerodynamic .... but matching wheel width to tire width makes more difference, I have read, than the actual width of the tire.

What determines speed is gearing and effort.

I have several bikes with 11-tooth high gears (the smallest cog (gear) in the cassette) and I usually don't sin so fat I really need it. My Raleigh has a 12-28, and I find it takes the same effort go go the same speed, I am just spinning a little faster instead of pushing a little harder.

Unless you are spinning 100+ rpm, 11 or 12 teeth is not likely the limiting factor.

I am going to do the web research later (it is dinner time) but it seems the FX3 might be more road-oriented. Also, with 10 cogs in the cassette, you can cover a wider range or gears (11-46) without having bigger jumps .... so the FX3 Might be more rideable (depends on how you ride.)

Yeah the FX3 is more of a flatbar road/hybrid, meaning it is set up for road Riding not road racing, with a little more comfort and the ability to carry some gear (https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...-disc/p/28474/) This link isn't current, but whatever ... you should be posting the links to help us understand, right?

The Sirrus (https://www.specialized.com/us/en/si...=271452-171181) is more of a flatbar gravel/adventure bike, made for comfy cruising on good pavement and decent performance (not racing) on bad pavement, packed earth, gravel, etc.---more of an all-around bike. Not a great choice for someone who did most of his/her time on pavement, IMO.

Both are decent enough bikes--I would for sure ride either one---but each is designed for very different uses and styles of riding.

If you ride mostly on pavement with a little dirt, the FX seems a better choice. I would use it as a commuter, grocery/work/rain/ rough pavement bike, and if there was clearance for slightly wider tires, i would chuck on a set of 38s or something and attack gravel with joy and eagerness.

The Sirrus would be an urban commuter, where you were always riding over broken pavement, construction debris, hopping curbs and traffic furniture as cars squeezed to aside, forced to ride over cracks and holes because there as no safe space away from the ruined edge of the road ... and also relaxing weekend gravel treks.

How do you ride and how do you like to ride?

KerryIrons

Two points: odds are good that you could get all the speed you want if you work on riding at a higher cadence. It's simple to practice: just spin faster than you are used to for a minute at a time, 10 times per ride. Increase the duration of the spin and the number of spin sessions per ride and you'll soon get there. Second is that a tire with a supple casing is much more important than tire width. If the narrow tire has a stiffer casing, it could easily be slower than the wider tire.

alcjphil

I have to say that you may not be looking at things from the right point of view. When you bought your bike, what was your goal? Were you looking at riding as fast as possible over a given route? If so, maybe neither of these bikes was the best choice. I get that 1X gear systems offer simple gear changing options, Click, easier gear, Click, harder gear. Simplicity has its downsides when it comes to onroad riding conditions. A little hill, a sustained headwind, a bumpy section of road can all contribute to riding conditions that slow you down and sometimes the "simple" gear choices of a 1X gear setup can let you down when you can't find the best gear with your limited 1X setup. Tire size as opposed to tire choice is another point that has to be brought up. A bike that came to you as a 1 X 8 may not have had the best tires available. Changing from a 700 x 42 to a 700 x 32 might improve things if you bought the best quality tires available, but if your new tires weren't any better that the ones they replaced there might only be a placebo effect. If you want better rolling resistance you want better, not necessarily narrower tires. At a certain speed, going faster involves learning how to efficiently pedal faster. This is why elite cyclists practice how to pedal at very high RPM, my personal measured training RPM was 211. It was on a spin bike and that very heavy bike was sort of dancing on the floor due to the vibrations of pedalling that fast. I get that you may think that you can go faster in a harder gear, but that often doesn't work out. I have seen so many times. I am grinding along in in a tough gear, going as hard as I can. Too hard, I have to switch to my next lower gear. I can now spin my pedals and guess what? I am going faster. I have seen this countless times over 50 years of riding.

Maelochs

A bike is a tool. A person who wants to ride needs to decide how s/he wants to ride ... what the job is .... which determines the best tool.

PeteHski

I think you would be better to focus more on the bigger picture here i.e. type of bike you want. The difference in gearing between these 2 particular bikes is not that important in the overall scheme of things. The bikes themselves are also very similar and swapping from one to the other is not going to change very much at all. If you really want to go significantly faster on pavement then neither of these bikes and gearing are the ideal choice.

toddsp

Thanks for the responses. A lot of great information even if some of it went over my head. If it wasn’t abundantly clear by my first post, I’m a total noob.

I returned the bike yesterday. With increasing doubts about my choice and time left in my return window it was the right decision.

My original goal was to upgrade my current bike, which is a Raleigh Rimrock that I got when I was in high school. I’m 41 now. My bike is old, heavy and well past its best before date so I decide to upgrade and hastily bought the Sirrus x 2.0. As I said earlier, I was also looking at the FX3 which I think I actually preferred but was $300 more in my area. I thought I could make a few changes to the Sirrus to mimic the FX3 and save some cash. That was the logic behind my decision as flawed as it may have been.

Most of the time I imagine I’ll be on relatively flat, paved surfaces like paved biking trails, roads, biking lanes etc. Maybe over grassy areas and gravel/ dirt walking type trails but not that often. My rides are relatively short compared to some of you but are usually 20 miles/ 30 km. I’d like to start to go further so I think that means riding on the roads in rural areas but I’m really anti getting run over. I’m also looking for a bike that’s future proof and something I can grow into. I’m not necessarily looking to go as fast as I can but I’d like to be efficient.

I think I’m looking for a bike that’s closer to the road bike end of the bike spectrum. In my mind (see paragraph 1) that means skinny tires but realize that’s not necessarily the case. I understand there are drawbacks to a 1x drivetrain but I think that’s the direction I want to go. I do agree that 8 speeds aren’t enough and I was often thinking it would be nice to have a gear between gears so I’m probably looking at a 1x10 or even better 1x11.

Should I still be looking at the FX3 or maybe something higher up the FX food chain? Or something else entirely? I’m back at square one.

prj71

You didn't specifically mention it, but it sounds like you want to stick with flat bars?

This is as close as you will get to a road bike that doesn't have road bike bars. I used to have one. It's a great bike. I had no problem keeping up with my friends on group rides averaging 20-22 mph.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bi...-bikes/fitness

raqball

My 2023 FX Sport 6 is mainly ridden in the City / tarmac for fitness and enjoyment. The front is a 40t and I swapped the rear from a 11-42t to a 11-46t. This setup does fantastic and I have no complaints whatsoever. No problems getting good speed on flat and that 46t seriously helps with long and sustained climbs.

As far as getting run over by cars goes, use lights even in the day. Most lights will have a daytime flash mode that helps get the attention of drivers. Also, be aware of your surroundings. Right hooks are common so before entering an intersection check your rear and anticipate what the driver might do so you are ready for it. Another issue I face is people exiting drives from malls, gas stations, shopping centers etc. A lot of the times they pull right out in front you so again, just be aware and prepared to react for what drivers might do..

I don't have a recommendation for bike but I've had the following brands over the years and have always been happy with them. Trek, Specialized, BMC, Giant.

Good luck!

DMC707

What dealership let’s you simply return a bike after demo’ing it for days and taking it on long rides , even changing out the tires?

I can understand swapping it for a different model, but to give a person a refund and let them go home and evaluate their lifes choices When they hand you back a used bike now seems unfair to the dealer

OP, Why don’t you look into a road bike If you want to go fast

prj71

Interesting you ask that question. My boss at work recently bought a Specialized Sirrus 2.0 and after riding it a few days a week for a month he returned it and got a full refund. He returned it because he didn't like the way it fit him. He then went to a Specialized dealer in a different town and bought a Specialized Roll.

raqball

Trek Corporate stores do.. They have a 30 day return or exchange on everything, including bikes..

When I purchased my 2023 FX Sport 6 it was from a Trek Corporate store. After getting the bike I went back in to shop for a new saddle and to change out the tires. They offered to swap the saddle and tires for free to comparably priced gear. I wanted upgrades so they gave me credit for the price of the items and I simply paid the difference for the upgrade. For instance, they gave me $99 for the saddle and I swapped it for a $150 saddle. I paid the $50 difference.. This was 3 weeks after getting the bike.

70sSanO

If you are thinking of taking your Sirrus back, you need really need to look at the gearing of your current bike and any replacement.

This is a nice gear inch/speed calculator that will give you speeds at various cadences.
https://www.machars.net/bikecalc.htm

It does you no good to swap out a bike without a clue as to the difference of new vs. old gearing.

It is equally important to assess if a 1x is really that important. If you can only exchange your Sirrus for another Specialized, and you don't want to spend more, you can get the 2x8 model with a 46/30 and ride in the 46 all day long unless you have a climb that won't work with a 46-32 gear. If you go with a 1x, keep in mind that you are only gaining 1t, high end, regardless of the number of cogs in the cassette. That may or may not be enough for the cadence you want to ride.

John