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Have you ever ridden a Confente?

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Have you ever ridden a Confente?

Old 09-26-22, 06:19 PM
  #76  
SurferRosa
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Have you never been mellow?
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Old 09-26-22, 07:57 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Have you never been mellow?
mellow yellow on my orange Medici!
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Old 09-27-22, 05:54 AM
  #78  
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Yes, I have owned and ridden a Confente and a Masi built by Mario for Irene Ferrari. To me, vintage bikes are a bit like vintage cars, an older MG might be fun to drive for a while but it does not compare to a modern Porsche!

On the translate function, the original sentence is "His mechanical aptitude soon captured the attention of a family friend, Mr. Tiberghien, who gave Mario a job in his wool factory. Mario worked as a mechanic and often repaired the looms."
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Old 09-27-22, 06:31 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by RWHowe
Yes, I have owned and ridden a Confente and a Masi built by Mario for Irene Ferrari. To me, vintage bikes are a bit like vintage cars, an older MG might be fun to drive for a while but it does not compare to a modern Porsche!

On the translate function, the original sentence is "His mechanical aptitude soon captured the attention of a family friend, Mr. Tiberghien, who gave Mario a job in his wool factory. Mario worked as a mechanic and often repaired the looms."
It is personal taste , I suppose . I drove a 1957 356A for 26 years and never had the urge to drive a more modern Porsche. I ride the same lugged steel bikes that I rode and lusted after when I was in my twenties and they were new. I ride with some guys that have nice modern carbon fiber bikes and I have no desire to "upgrade" ......YET!
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Old 09-27-22, 07:10 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Andy_K
My Chrome browser translated it very well as far as I can tell (except a bit about Confente building looms from 1968 to 1970). Very interesting information. Thanks for sharing.

To the point I made earlier about custom frames, the article quotes Confente himself thusly: "A frame must come out perfect from every point of view. You can't go wrong even half a centimeter. The riders would notice it immediately and my seriousness would go away. So maximum perfection. The frames must be precise. They must correspond to the measurements of the length of the legs, body and arms."

Of course, this must also be tempered with what Brian Baylis said about frame builders understanding things that the rest of us don't, so I'm sure there is much that I'm missing beyond this point.
If the standard of excellence is being accurate to a half-centimeter, I'm quite sure many builders today can meet that!
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Old 09-27-22, 07:18 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by RWHowe
Yes, I have owned and ridden a Confente and a Masi built by Mario for Irene Ferrari. To me, vintage bikes are a bit like vintage cars, an older MG might be fun to drive for a while but it does not compare to a modern Porsche!

On the translate function, the original sentence is "His mechanical aptitude soon captured the attention of a family friend, Mr. Tiberghien, who gave Mario a job in his wool factory. Mario worked as a mechanic and often repaired the looms."
The Irene Ferrari frame is darn light.
was dangled in front of me at one point soliciting an offer, no extra silly money at the time. I did not make an offer.

thanks for the better translation.

As to air cooled flat six cars, I started with a Corvair. The American Porsche.
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Old 09-27-22, 07:54 AM
  #82  
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I guess for 1977 they looked pretty nice. Could do without the soup-can cable guides, but I guess back then, they were better than the three chromed band-type guides. Flat fork crowns? No thanks.

The lugs are nice, but no chrome? No braze-on front derailleur mounts?

Again, for 1977, maybe these frames were the shiz, but certainly not the pinnacle of steel frame design/execution, IMO. That three-toned blue one Steve in Peoria posted looks pretty nice, but the others? Meh.
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Old 09-27-22, 08:12 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by smd4
I guess for 1977 they looked pretty nice. Could do without the soup-can cable guides, but I guess back then, they were better than the three chromed band-type guides. Flat fork crowns? No thanks.

The lugs are nice, but no chrome? No braze-on front derailleur mounts?

Again, for 1977, maybe these frames were the shiz, but certainly not the pinnacle of steel frame design/execution, IMO. That three-toned blue one Steve in Peoria posted looks pretty nice, but the others? Meh.
braze on front derailleur mounts as a production item were years away.
Confente did explore a direct mount front mechanism. A custom cast chassis to replace the band clamp affair - mounting with what appeared to be two waterbottle bosses. Near the end, maybe only on one bike.

the rest of your post really need to be revised for clarity after some more coffee. "Soup can cable guides"?

you might also review more as what was available in 1977. My guess before your time and or awareness.
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Old 09-27-22, 08:15 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by repechage
braze on front derailleur mounts as a production item were years away.
Confente did explore a direct mount front mechanism. A custom cast chassis to replace the band clamp affair - mounting with what appeared to be two waterbottle bosses. Near the end, maybe only on one bike.

the rest of your post really need to be revised for clarity after some more coffee. "Soup can cable guides"?

you might also review more as what was available in 1977. My guess before your time and or awareness.
Yes--the top tube cable guides look like tiny soup cans. Or cut-down .22 casings. Nothing elegant, in my book.

Definitely before my time, for sure. But I still see nothing special in the design or execution. I suspect it rides just like any other high-quality steel bike of the time.
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Old 09-27-22, 09:00 AM
  #85  
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I think it is necessary to evaluate Confente’s work in the context of when he built frames. European frames in the 60’s and 70’s had to be made fast in order to meet the cheap market that would buy them. I visited a lot of builders in the UK and Italy in my quest to learn in the 70’s and there was no magnificence there. In order to be able to sell a painted frame for $100 or so, that required a build time of only a day. When I look at my 1972 Italian Masi (I paid $350 for the complete Campy equipped bike), I am really impressed how nicely it was made. It isn’t fair to compare Mario’s 70’s work to what I and my colleagues can build in 100 hours today.

I was introduced to a Confente bicycle by my cousin that ran Rain Cross Cycerly in Riverside CA in 1976. The feature I saw that I had never seen before was recessed brake mounts. That was the beginning of the end of using a nut that stuck out beyond the fork or brake bridge. I don’t know if he invented the idea but that is the 1st time I ever saw it done.

Another feature of Confente’s compared to us contemporary Americans that started in the 70’s was that his graphics were refined. He essentially modified what Masi was doing but the end effect was really good.There was no known place in the States that understood what bicycle decals should look like, like there was in the UK. Eventually that problem was solved but not before some ugly graphics were used on American made frames in the 70’s.
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Old 09-27-22, 09:04 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by mhespenheide
If the standard of excellence is being accurate to a half-centimeter, I'm quite sure many builders today can meet that!
Mario's comment isn't too outlandish, in the context of general frame alignment (not mitering) of the average lugged steel bike of the time.

Many production frames of this period were assembled and shipped without any post-build alignment check. It was more common to find a rear triangle delivered out of whack than not. Back then, lots of shops who took pride in what they sold would send production bikes straight from the box onto the alignment table for a check and cold-setting if necessary.

At this point, every steel frame that rolls through my shop that happens to have the BB off for any reason will get the rear triangle checked. More often then not, they need a bit of tweaking and are off as much as the 5mm that Mario mentions.

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Old 09-27-22, 09:08 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic
Another feature of Confente’s compared to us contemporary Americans that started in the 70’s was that his graphics were refined. He essentially modified what Masi was doing but the end effect was really good.There was no known place in the States that understood what bicycle decals should look like, like there was in the UK. Eventually that problem was solved but not before some ugly graphics were used on American made frames in the 70’s.
Not to mention that the frame finishes in the period pictures and unrestored examples indicate that Confentes had a significantly better paint jobs than most other bikes of the period.

In the context of the 1970's - with no internet to see what anyone else was up to throughout the US other than various B&W bike magazines and the trade shows - it's easy to see Confente's work stirring up a lot of interest, especially regionally.

-Kurt
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Old 09-27-22, 09:09 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
Nope, but this is pretty much the same thing and the ride is freakin' amazing:





DD
Errrrrrrrrrrr...that's like the least Confente like bike

If there was an anti-confente, that's it!

I did ride one. It was a bike. I think getting a custom bike built for someone else is often problematic if you're expecting bespoke ride. Confente was a talented builder I'm sure, but like a lot of this stuff, it's really branding and mythology. There are bikes I'd rather have to be honest, and which i consider more special.

A lot of people crap on things they don't appreciate, or can't afford...like those saying "oh that famous Michelin three star is nothing special"; it happens here too. I don't want to be one of those people about confente...and sure, if one came around at 2k, I'd buy it to have it. That said, there are other builders I find more appealing, and I generally prefer east coast builders on principle

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Old 09-27-22, 09:17 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic
I think it is necessary to evaluate Confente’s work in the context of when he built frames. European frames in the 60’s and 70’s had to be made fast in order to meet the cheap market that would buy them. I visited a lot of builders in the UK and Italy in my quest to learn in the 70’s and there was no magnificence there. In order to be able to sell a painted frame for $100 or so, that required a build time of only a day.
I don't know. The Supercorsas I've seen from the 70s had chrome lugs, fork crowns, and sometime stays or forks. If you tell me a frame like this could be built, chromed, and painted in a day, I certainly cannot argue with you. But those bikes seem to me more refined (except for details like the recessed brake bolts). Sloping fork crowns; fastback seat stays; generous chrome...

I get that Confentes have their loyal following. For the most part, except for the occasional detail, they look pretty much like any other steel bikes of the time...to me.
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Old 09-27-22, 09:17 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
Here's an interesting take on the mystique that surrounds MC to this day; keep in mind, what follows are the musings of a framebuilder, and a highly-regarded one at that.

Quote: " If all frames were purchased strictly on the quality of what’s there and nothing else and the price was relative to that, Mario would not make the top ten with absolute certainty. "

(Brian Baylis, 27 June 2002)

DD
I wonder where Baylis would have ranked his own frames.
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Old 09-27-22, 09:17 AM
  #91  
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Confente's graphics

Mario's graphics were designed by Federico Ferrari. "Fred" was an older Italian gentleman living in LA. He became friends with Mario. When Mario was preparing to leave Masi, Fred designed his graphics.
Fred was a graphic designer by trade and he painted as well. I saw a few of his oil paintings in his home and they were quire nice.

Originally Posted by Doug Fattic
I think it is necessary to evaluate Confente’s work in the context of when he built frames. European frames in the 60’s and 70’s had to be made fast in order to meet the cheap market that would buy them. I visited a lot of builders in the UK and Italy in my quest to learn in the 70’s and there was no magnificence there. In order to be able to sell a painted frame for $100 or so, that required a build time of only a day. When I look at my 1972 Italian Masi (I paid $350 for the complete Campy equipped bike), I am really impressed how nicely it was made. It isn’t fair to compare Mario’s 70’s work to what I and my colleagues can build in 100 hours today.

I was introduced to a Confente bicycle by my cousin that ran Rain Cross Cycerly in Riverside CA in 1976. The feature I saw that I had never seen before was recessed brake mounts. That was the beginning of the end of using a nut that stuck out beyond the fork or brake bridge. I don’t know if he invented the idea but that is the 1st time I ever saw it done.

Another feature of Confente’s compared to us contemporary Americans that started in the 70’s was that his graphics were refined. He essentially modified what Masi was doing but the end effect was really good.There was no known place in the States that understood what bicycle decals should look like, like there was in the UK. Eventually that problem was solved but not before some ugly graphics were used on American made frames in the 70’s.
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Old 09-27-22, 09:22 AM
  #92  
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I did ride one. It was a bike. I think getting a custom bike built for someone else is often problematic if you're expecting bespoke ride. Confente was a talented builder I'm sure, but like a lot of this stuff, it's really branding and mythology.
This is probably the best answer. Take away the cosmetic accents/decals/branding and you may not be able to distinquish it from the other brands in a blind ride test. Heck, you might not even be able to pick it out amongst the top brands from other countries either.
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Old 09-27-22, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by himespau
I wonder where Baylis would have ranked his own frames.
I tend to consider the person along with the frame...so that immediately drops them for me.
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Old 09-27-22, 09:26 AM
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90 post thread - already - and probably no more than 2-3 people on it own one, and a few more rode one once. That's the power of Confente.

I make a post about Bill Boston - maybe I get two replies.

FWIW - my favorite frame builder is Hanford Cycles - because he's a great dude who makes nice bikes.
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Old 09-27-22, 09:41 AM
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The dude died relatively early into his frame making/business career. Never had a chance to show long term success or failure. He's remembered as the young Elvis everyone loved and adored instead of the Elvis portrayed in the movie Bubba Ho Tep. It could have went either way.

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Old 09-27-22, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat
The dude died relatively early into his frame making/busness career. Never had a chance to show long term success or failure. He's remembered as the young Elvis everyone loved and adored instead of the Elvis portrayed in the movie Bubba Ho Tep. It could have went either way.
Can you imagine how we’d remember Belushi had he lived longer? Or cobain? Or Morrison?

Belushi would probably be viewed with all the fondness of Chevy Chase. We tend to lionize people who expire before they get to play all the roles.
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Old 09-27-22, 10:30 AM
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In the context of the times, the Velo-news newspaper was published monthly October to March and twice a month from April through September. You might learn about frame builders around the US from their ads in the back of Velo-news. Frame builders were very regional. I grew up in NJ. Bill Boston was known to build nice frames for tourists. I never saw a Bill Boston frame at a race. Guys I raced with rode bikes by Jim Redcay and Tom Kellogg. By the mid-80s, you might see a Sachs or Serotta. Never heard of Assenmacher or West coast builders till many years later.

I would argue that Mario transcended that and became a national name early on. Two of the biggest names in U.S. racing in that era, Jerry Ash and Boyer, rode his frames. It was a big deal to see Boyer on a Confente in the 1981 Sports Illustrated article, a feature piece as the first American to ride the TdF.

Ask anyone that attended the 1977 industry trade show in NYC what a big deal it was when Mario unveiled his frames.


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Old 09-27-22, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mhespenheide
If the standard of excellence is being accurate to a half-centimeter, I'm quite sure many builders today can meet that!
I took this to be referring to the geometry of the bike, vis a vis "the measurements of the length of the legs, body and arms." So my point was that the bike may indeed have been very special for the person for whom it was built, but it would likely be just another frame (in terms of ride quality) for someone with different proportions.
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Old 09-27-22, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat
The dude died relatively early into his frame making/busness career. Never had a chance to show long term success or failure. He's remembered as the young Elvis everyone loved and adored instead of the Elvis portrayed in the movie Bubba Ho Tep. It could have went either way.


-Kurt
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Old 09-27-22, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Yes--the top tube cable guides look like tiny soup cans. Or cut-down .22 casings. Nothing elegant, in my book.

Definitely before my time, for sure. But I still see nothing special in the design or execution. I suspect it rides just like any other high-quality steel bike of the time.
a difference of opinion on the cable guides.
they DO require a casing that is not too thick.
I think that is a legitimate knock.

as I wrote much earlier- a Super Masi.
note this is of opinion, I have bikes I can Compare. Some might be attributed that Most Masi Carlsbad bikes were of Reynolds, Mario used Columbus.
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