Vintagerose

Fixing up my parents old austro Daimler’s. My dads has all old campy parts on it. Was having shifting problems and would always get tossed out of 2nd gear. Looking at the freewheel the second to biggest cog doesn’t have enough space from the first. Not sure if I just got a little bent or the spacer wore out or what. I went to replace it with a 6 speed instead and realized the rear derailleur won’t fit with that big of a freewheel. So now I’m stuck looking for a atom 77- 5 speed with a 14/24 tooth count. Hard to find. My main question is I can find an atom 77, but they are usually compact. I don’t think the original is, and I don’t know what compact is referring to??

JohnDThompson 

"Compact" refers to the spacing between the sprockets. A compact 6-speed block is the same width as a "standard" 5-speed block. Atom 77 freewheels were available in both compact and standard spacing. But unless your hub is metric (aka "French") thread, an ISO/English thread compact block from any manufacturer will mount on the hub.

rustystrings61 

Which model Austro-Daimler is it - and which model rear derailleur? Any 5-speed freewheel with standard/ISO threads should work, as Steyr-Daimler-Puch used ISO-threaded fittings for the bikes marketed as Austro-Daimlers - at least, those sold in the United States.

Vintagerose

It’s a Daimler vent noir 2. Campy hub. I put a atom 77 6 speed on it but the derailleur hits the biggest cog so it’s a no go. Gotta stick to a 5 speed. Campy gran sport rear derailleur.

Vintagerose

Won’t let me upload pictures yet. Too green on the forum

but it I can’t find another atom 77 14/24 5 speed hub, what the heck should I put on this old bird? Ready to get it rolling again

Chombi1 

If it's a Campy NR RD, it won't be able to handle any cog bigger than a 23 or a 24, I think. At least that's what I seem to remember when I used to run an NR RD on my Peugeot PSV.

rustystrings61 

Pretty much ANY 5-speed freewheel with a small enough large cog should work - you don’t need an old Atom.

Vintagerose

thats good to know. I was trying to keep it as close to original as possible, that’s why I was looking for other atoms. Is that hub a certain thread type I need to keep in mind?

oneclick 

He's posted it's a Gran Sport, which had a claimed largest sprocket of 26, and a reputation for working with bigger.

It appears from what he's posted that the cage or top jockey wheel is hitting the innermost sprocket of a replacement freewheel, so it's either too big or the chain length needs fettling; or possibly a spacer under the freewheel as at the most inward position the derailleur cage is on the upswing of its arc.

However, if the original issue was actually caused by a too-narrow spacing (for whatever reason) between the first and second sprockets on a five-speed freewheel, he might most easily solve it by using a narrower chain.

pastorbobnlnh 

The Campy hub should be marked near the threading for the type of freewheel. They came in ISO, Italian, and French threading.

I'm very doubtful that a spacer could wear out between the two largest sprockets. Possibly when Atom assembled the freewheel, a compact spacer found its way into the normal spacer bin. Also it is difficult to bend sprockets of that size. 30T and larger, yes it's possible. A 24T, very doubtful.

Keep posting and reach 10 and then you can add pictures.

rustystrings61 

It's most likely an ISO-threaded hub. FWIW, my 1976 Puch Royal X, which was built by the same guys on the same fixtures in Graz, came stock with an Italian Regina Oro 14-22 5-speed freewheel on a BSC/ISO-threaded Normandy Luxe Comp hub. A quick trawl of the internet leads me to this account of Austro-Daimler, specifically focusing on a Vent Noir II. The listed freewheel is a 5-speed 14-24 Regina Oro.

The quickest way to improve shifting back then was to switch to a SunTour freewheel and a Sedisport chain - which is what I wound up doing with my Puch. It would not be a grievous sin to replace your freewheel with a more modern 5-speed from Sunrace or pretty much anyone - unless you get phenomenally luck and score a SunTour Ultra 6-speed freewheel, which puts 6 cogs in the space of 5, and which started the whole shrinking space between cogs we all know today. That definitely requires going to what has become the modern 5-to-8-speed chain of today, which is the spiritual descendant of the old Sedisport narrow of the early 80s.

I'm also thinking you may want to check your chain length - the Nuovo Gran Sport derailleur allegedly is rated for 26T, but there are enough accounts of people running not just 28T but even 31T (!) to justify playing with a new chain and freewheel combo and seeing how well you can stretch the limits.

It's worth the hassle. My old Puch - which had the same angles, tubing and lugs as the original Vent Noir - is always a fun bike to ride.

Vintagerose

I found another atom freewheel in 6 speed instead of 5 and snagged it up. But the jockey wheel couldn’t clear the last cog. I bought a brand new Sachs sedis chain, though i think it’s vintage. It seems to be slightly more narrow than the old chain. I may try to see if it is narrow enough to work with the original freewheel! It may be able to fit in the second cog even though it’s not evenly spaced like the rest

oneclick 

I just went and checked the spacing on a few atom FW, the six-speed DID have a narrower spacing between the largest and the next-largest (3.1-something vs, 3.5-something), all the rest and all the 5-speed ones were the 3.5-ish.

Vintagerose

what about the spacing on the 5 speeds? We the two largest cogs a tad closer together? I really think the new chain may actually work I just gotta find some time to slap it all together. Now I’m having issues with brake pads lol. If it’s not one thing it’s another for sure

oneclick 

5-speeds were all the same, 3.5-ish.

JohnDThompson 

Some hubs have markings of some kind to indicate thread spec. If you can't find a mark, English/ISO is the most likely. You can test this using a known, English thread bottom bracket lockring. If the hub is English/ISO thread, the lockring will thread on easily and fully.

Sometimes freewheels are marked as well. An original Atom freewheel will have a rectangular mark on the back (older production) or be explicitly marked with thread spec on the back (1.37 x 24 for English/ISO).

John E

I have run 50-42/14-16-18-20-23-26 on the Bianchi for at least 20 years, and the NR derailleurs handle the combination beautifully. Some folks on BF report being able to push NRs to 28 or even 30 T in back.

Vintagerose

Vintagerose

Honestly that was a test to see if I could post pictures yet! I put the original freewheel back on with a new chain. I wasn’t paying good enough attention when I took it apart though to how the chain was routed on the derailleur. My jockey wheels seem to be in a much different position than everyone else’s. My bottom one is almost the same level as the top one. Please tell me this isnt routed right, the chain seems way long still and it’s a tad shorter than the old one.

verktyg 

WHAT!!!

Chombi, what's come over you?

The published rear sprocket capacity for Campy Nuovo Record, 1st generation Super Record and UBER UGLY Gran Sport rear derailleurs was 13-26T with 42-52T or 53T chainrings.

As far back as 1973 we were installing 14-28T 5 speed freewheels on customer's bikes with Campy NR RDs. ALL of my NR and SR equipped bikes have at least 28T large sprockets.

On a Classic Rendezvous ride back in 2013 at least 2 riders were running 34T large sprockets with NR derailleurs.




I had a 13-31T Regina Oro FW on my 1970 Gitane Super Corsa.



The 2nd generation Super Record RDs were rated at 13-28T but could handle 30T or even 32T FWs.

12-32T Sachs ARIS 7 speed FW with a 2nd generation SR RD.



It's not a plug and play operation to get oversize FWs to work with NR rear derailleurs but with a little trial and error, rear hub positioning plus adding a chain link or two it should work on many bikes.

One thing to note on those NR/SR/GS rear derailleurs, Frank Berto said something to the effect that they they were well made and beautiful and that they would shift poorly forever!

That was one of the many evidence based truths that got him on Campy's faeces list!

What I found was that they shift well on straight block, corn cob style FWs with sprockets up to 21T or so... Over 24T they fall behind most other RD designs.

Goring oxen everyday!

verktyg

pastorbobnlnh 

Vintagerose you need a longer chain. Routing is correct. EDIT: Now that I see your additional pictures, your routing is all wrong and agree with oneclick below.

From what I can see, there appears to be a good bit of wear on the sprocket teeth of your Atom 77. Please take some daylight pictures of it with the wheel off the bike. EDIT: The additional pictures show the rounding of the teeth, especially on the two largest sprockets. It's time for a new freewheel.

oneclick 

Yes, and no.

Chain needs to follow ALL of the S-shaped edge of the cage plates; over the top of the right pulley, clockwise around it and then through the gap and anti-clockwise around the left pulley, then to the bottom of the front chainring.

Vintagerose

Here’s some better pictures

FBOATSB

Me thinks you need to wind the spring on your pulleys 180° before you thread your chain through.
I have an Atom 5 speed freewheel with 14-24 cogs, English thread, that I'm not especially married to but it is not a 77. I think it may be older. It requires a two notch removal instead of the splined one. Requires cleaning before I can photograph it.

Vintagerose

If I put it on large front small back there’s so much slack it flops all over and hits the frame