Is half wheeling dangerous?
08-29-21, 09:58 PM
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I don’t understand this element of the use of the term, “half-wheeling.”
I think we share the same basic understanding that half-wheeling involves a follwing rider overlapping their front wheel with the back half of the leading rider’s rear wheel, no?
What I don’t get is how this behavior “pushes the pace,” particularly because, by definition, the following rider is behind and therefor out of sight of the leading rider who then cannot— or usually does not— have awareness that half-wheeling is happening. That’s what makes it dangerous, but also why I don’t get how someone could feel pushed by behavior they’re unaware of.
I suppose if the following rider was far enough away from the leading rider that the leading rider could catch them in their peripheral vision or with a head check then they’d be aware and the situation far less dangerous. However, as the leading rider, it’s their main role to set the pace, and if someone were coming up way out on my left— and I’m speaking personally now— I’d assume they’re either going to overtake or they misjudged their speed and are trying to bleed some off in the wind rather than by braking. If they don’t overtake, then I’m inferring my pace is fine.
And that’s how I’ve always seen it to work around here, too, with any of the groups I’ve ridden with. In my club, we ride fast pacelines and definitely have some members who are either uncomfortable in the draft or are just arseholes who ride out in the fallback line, often halfway alongside if not half-wheeling their leading rider. I have never noticed, in all the years, that he behavior causes the speeds to lift, nor have I heard complaints that anyone felt uncomfortably pressured by the behavior, so I wonder if I’m misunderstanding how you’re describing “half-wheeling.”
I think we share the same basic understanding that half-wheeling involves a follwing rider overlapping their front wheel with the back half of the leading rider’s rear wheel, no?
What I don’t get is how this behavior “pushes the pace,” particularly because, by definition, the following rider is behind and therefor out of sight of the leading rider who then cannot— or usually does not— have awareness that half-wheeling is happening. That’s what makes it dangerous, but also why I don’t get how someone could feel pushed by behavior they’re unaware of.
I suppose if the following rider was far enough away from the leading rider that the leading rider could catch them in their peripheral vision or with a head check then they’d be aware and the situation far less dangerous. However, as the leading rider, it’s their main role to set the pace, and if someone were coming up way out on my left— and I’m speaking personally now— I’d assume they’re either going to overtake or they misjudged their speed and are trying to bleed some off in the wind rather than by braking. If they don’t overtake, then I’m inferring my pace is fine.
And that’s how I’ve always seen it to work around here, too, with any of the groups I’ve ridden with. In my club, we ride fast pacelines and definitely have some members who are either uncomfortable in the draft or are just arseholes who ride out in the fallback line, often halfway alongside if not half-wheeling their leading rider. I have never noticed, in all the years, that he behavior causes the speeds to lift, nor have I heard complaints that anyone felt uncomfortably pressured by the behavior, so I wonder if I’m misunderstanding how you’re describing “half-wheeling.”
What you're describing is overlapping wheels.
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08-29-21, 10:02 PM
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No. Half wheeling is when one of the front riders in a double pace line continuously edges ahead of the other front rider.
08-29-21, 10:42 PM
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Your other point is well taken, just get rid of them like the guys who accelerate when they reach the front. But we know it usually doesn't work that way.
08-29-21, 10:49 PM
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08-30-21, 02:39 AM
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Mainly, we don’t ride two abreast that often, and when we do, it’s just easy cruising to chat, so there’s no competitiveness…if that is indeed what drives the behavior. More often we’re in a paceline, where the “abreast” rider is only alongside momentarily as they rotate to the back.
I certainly recognize people without group riding socialization, and so what you call half-wheeling I thought was just anti-social behavior by someone who doesn’t know how to chill and enjoy a chat, or perhaps someone who is really uncomfy in the bunch. I don’t want to risk finding out it’s the latter, so I’ll move off and find someone else to cruise with.
It strikes me as odd that half-wheeling as you call it would push the pace, though, because if it’s being done to someone, isn’t the victim the one controlling the pace? I mean, the half-wheeler is quasi-matching the victim, right, otherwise they’d just overtake and pull ahead. I don’t really get the obligation to ride next to someone who doesn’t, clearly, want to ride next to you, but again, it’s either just recovery moments or social rides for my groups when we’d be two abreast, so for someone to be out of sync (off the front; or can you do this mid-pack?) is not a big deal.
08-30-21, 05:59 AM
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Oh, interesting. I’m not familiar with that use of the term, and I guess I’m not familiar with that kind of behavior as a problem, either.
Mainly, we don’t ride two abreast that often, and when we do, it’s just easy cruising to chat, so there’s no competitiveness…if that is indeed what drives the behavior. More often we’re in a paceline, where the “abreast” rider is only alongside momentarily as they rotate to the back.
I certainly recognize people without group riding socialization, and so what you call half-wheeling I thought was just anti-social behavior by someone who doesn’t know how to chill and enjoy a chat, or perhaps someone who is really uncomfy in the bunch. I don’t want to risk finding out it’s the latter, so I’ll move off and find someone else to cruise with.
It strikes me as odd that half-wheeling as you call it would push the pace, though, because if it’s being done to someone, isn’t the victim the one controlling the pace? I mean, the half-wheeler is quasi-matching the victim, right, otherwise they’d just overtake and pull ahead. I don’t really get the obligation to ride next to someone who doesn’t, clearly, want to ride next to you, but again, it’s either just recovery moments or social rides for my groups when we’d be two abreast, so for someone to be out of sync (off the front; or can you do this mid-pack?) is not a big deal.
Mainly, we don’t ride two abreast that often, and when we do, it’s just easy cruising to chat, so there’s no competitiveness…if that is indeed what drives the behavior. More often we’re in a paceline, where the “abreast” rider is only alongside momentarily as they rotate to the back.
I certainly recognize people without group riding socialization, and so what you call half-wheeling I thought was just anti-social behavior by someone who doesn’t know how to chill and enjoy a chat, or perhaps someone who is really uncomfy in the bunch. I don’t want to risk finding out it’s the latter, so I’ll move off and find someone else to cruise with.
It strikes me as odd that half-wheeling as you call it would push the pace, though, because if it’s being done to someone, isn’t the victim the one controlling the pace? I mean, the half-wheeler is quasi-matching the victim, right, otherwise they’d just overtake and pull ahead. I don’t really get the obligation to ride next to someone who doesn’t, clearly, want to ride next to you, but again, it’s either just recovery moments or social rides for my groups when we’d be two abreast, so for someone to be out of sync (off the front; or can you do this mid-pack?) is not a big deal.
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08-30-21, 06:15 AM
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I’m not sure if “doosh” means what I think it does, but it sounds like something I’d file under “anti-social.”
08-30-21, 06:24 AM
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08-30-21, 08:31 AM
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Ok, now can someone explain how this behavior pushes the pace? If you’re aware that it’s being done to you, what is it that keeps sucking you in to increasing the speed when you know full well it doesn’t matter? Do the half-wheelers bait you by allowing you to think you’ve matched their speed, only to pull ahead again shortly thereafter? I mean, why don’t you just ride your pace and let the half-wheeler do their thing? What are the group ride conditions in which this is a problem? If it’s just two people, why not just drop back in the draft and let ‘em work, or even pull out every now and then if you feel you aren’t getting enough of a workout in the draft? Truly, I don’t understand the scenario or psychology going on this “half-wheeling” scenario you folks are describing, or even why it’s a problem.
08-30-21, 08:35 AM
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I don't disagree.
In the years that I was riding regularly I searched around this area a bit for another group. I have 'basically' three known clubs nearby. The one I was riding with was the largest, and closest group. There was another one somewhat nearby. It was made of mostly white collar workers (well, most groups are I have noted) and I just never felt assimilated into the group. The other group I tried to ride with dumped me on a ride when I fell off the back. The sweep didn't bother to sweep and I ended up lost in N Atlanta for a while after my phone fell and got crushed.
I went back to the original group for a bit. The last summer I rode with them was quite a year with two very large crashes within the group. The topper was when two of the guys in the group got pissed at me for being friendly with "their" women. It just so happened that my level of speed ended up with me riding in close proximity to the ladies a lot. No point in not being friendly....apparently they weren't confident enough in themselves to deal with that. I just opted at that point for it to be the cherry on top and haven't ridden in a group outside things like Mass or the Mobile Social since then. I am actually not positive that any of those groups are active any longer. I think one dissolved and the other has been down for the 'rona, so far as I am aware.
Talk about a bunch of incidents and unsafe happenings...whew! Riding mass is fun, but very dangerous.
08-30-21, 08:39 AM
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Im feeling like this "rule" is similar to ones like don't surge once you get to the front, half wheeling can worsen the accordion affect in the pack. Refraining from it helps keep the paceline running smooth. This ride isn't really about running a smooth paceline though, its supposed to be training for races, people attack and surge all the time.
08-30-21, 09:03 AM
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Im feeling like this "rule" is similar to ones like don't surge once you get to the front, half wheeling can worsen the accordion affect in the pack. Refraining from it helps keep the paceline running smooth. This ride isn't really about running a smooth paceline though, its supposed to be training for races, people attack and surge all the time.
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08-30-21, 09:37 AM
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I enjoy doing most exercise related things myself. It is not because I am anti social but because I have limited time and trying to fit in the needs of others when I recreate are not logistics I care for. I have learned this the hard way.
08-30-21, 09:40 AM
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Can someone cue me into why half wheeling is frowned upon? I heard the term a while ago and thought it meant overlapping wheels/not protecting your front wheel, but now I understand that its more about persistently upping the pace when next to someone. To me this sounds fine and not dangerous. in the group I ride with, if someone pushes the pace on an easy day the other riders let them go and blow themselves up. Is half wheeling somehow inherently dangerous, or is it just something that can disrupt an organized pace line
The second is just annoying
08-30-21, 09:58 AM
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08-30-21, 10:01 AM
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I don't disagree.
In the years that I was riding regularly I searched around this area a bit for another group. I have 'basically' three known clubs nearby. The one I was riding with was the largest, and closest group. There was another one somewhat nearby. It was made of mostly white collar workers (well, most groups are I have noted) and I just never felt assimilated into the group. The other group I tried to ride with dumped me on a ride when I fell off the back. The sweep didn't bother to sweep and I ended up lost in N Atlanta for a while after my phone fell and got crushed.
I went back to the original group for a bit. The last summer I rode with them was quite a year with two very large crashes within the group. The topper was when two of the guys in the group got pissed at me for being friendly with "their" women. It just so happened that my level of speed ended up with me riding in close proximity to the ladies a lot. No point in not being friendly....apparently they weren't confident enough in themselves to deal with that. I just opted at that point for it to be the cherry on top and haven't ridden in a group outside things like Mass or the Mobile Social since then. I am actually not positive that any of those groups are active any longer. I think one dissolved and the other has been down for the 'rona, so far as I am aware.
Talk about a bunch of incidents and unsafe happenings...whew! Riding mass is fun, but very dangerous.
In the years that I was riding regularly I searched around this area a bit for another group. I have 'basically' three known clubs nearby. The one I was riding with was the largest, and closest group. There was another one somewhat nearby. It was made of mostly white collar workers (well, most groups are I have noted) and I just never felt assimilated into the group. The other group I tried to ride with dumped me on a ride when I fell off the back. The sweep didn't bother to sweep and I ended up lost in N Atlanta for a while after my phone fell and got crushed.
I went back to the original group for a bit. The last summer I rode with them was quite a year with two very large crashes within the group. The topper was when two of the guys in the group got pissed at me for being friendly with "their" women. It just so happened that my level of speed ended up with me riding in close proximity to the ladies a lot. No point in not being friendly....apparently they weren't confident enough in themselves to deal with that. I just opted at that point for it to be the cherry on top and haven't ridden in a group outside things like Mass or the Mobile Social since then. I am actually not positive that any of those groups are active any longer. I think one dissolved and the other has been down for the 'rona, so far as I am aware.
Talk about a bunch of incidents and unsafe happenings...whew! Riding mass is fun, but very dangerous.
I've been a member of a road club for 32 years. As many as 500 members during some years. I've seen all kinds of people come and go and made some really great friends. Yes, I've been dropped and that has happened more as I am older and slower and younger guys have showed up.
It has lost some of it's charm but then the covid kinda killed the whole thing. Very few people show up compared to years past and some small groups have formed to do their own thing.
I joined another smaller club in 2019 and they are more focused on staying together during rides. Everyone there has been super friendly and they treat me like an old friend. Their rides are usually short, though, like 40 miles. They are supposed to start having some longer ones so I am looking forward to that.
08-30-21, 10:12 AM
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08-30-21, 10:12 AM
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Im feeling like this "rule" is similar to ones like don't surge once you get to the front, half wheeling can worsen the accordion affect in the pack. Refraining from it helps keep the paceline running smooth. This ride isn't really about running a smooth paceline though, its supposed to be training for races, people attack and surge all the time.
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08-30-21, 10:18 AM
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Ok, now can someone explain how this behavior pushes the pace? If you’re aware that it’s being done to you, what is it that keeps sucking you in to increasing the speed when you know full well it doesn’t matter? Do the half-wheelers bait you by allowing you to think you’ve matched their speed, only to pull ahead again shortly thereafter? I mean, why don’t you just ride your pace and let the half-wheeler do their thing? What are the group ride conditions in which this is a problem? If it’s just two people, why not just drop back in the draft and let ‘em work, or even pull out every now and then if you feel you aren’t getting enough of a workout in the draft? Truly, I don’t understand the scenario or psychology going on this “half-wheeling” scenario you folks are describing, or even why it’s a problem.
It's like a group ride when one guy goes to the front and raises the speed a bit. Of course nobody is forced to follow him, but groups tend to try and stay together, matching the ebb and flow of speed due to terrain, wind, whatever. If it's just a brief increase of speed and everyone can remain comfortable, no big deal. If the leader starts hammering, some are going to chase and some are going to suck wheel and some are getting dropped, maybe.
Like datlas has explained, when you're riding along with someone, maybe chatting, and that someone raises the speed a tiny bit,, you are probably going to match his speed because you're riding together. This can happen to the point that it's annoying. It's not a huge deal. If that person takes a flyer, that's a different story.
08-30-21, 10:48 AM
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i half-wheel my friend Paul all the time. i'm struggling how to get him to pedal a little faster so we have more time as the pub for a second round. 
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08-30-21, 10:55 AM
#49
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08-30-21, 11:03 AM
#50
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You're really over-thinking it. It's subtle, one of the nuances of riding for hours with other people.
It's like a group ride when one guy goes to the front and raises the speed a bit. Of course nobody is forced to follow him, but groups tend to try and stay together, matching the ebb and flow of speed due to terrain, wind, whatever. If it's just a brief increase of speed and everyone can remain comfortable, no big deal. If the leader starts hammering, some are going to chase and some are going to suck wheel and some are getting dropped, maybe.
Like datlas has explained, when you're riding along with someone, maybe chatting, and that someone raises the speed a tiny bit,, you are probably going to match his speed because you're riding together. This can happen to the point that it's annoying. It's not a huge deal. If that person takes a flyer, that's a different story.
It's like a group ride when one guy goes to the front and raises the speed a bit. Of course nobody is forced to follow him, but groups tend to try and stay together, matching the ebb and flow of speed due to terrain, wind, whatever. If it's just a brief increase of speed and everyone can remain comfortable, no big deal. If the leader starts hammering, some are going to chase and some are going to suck wheel and some are getting dropped, maybe.
Like datlas has explained, when you're riding along with someone, maybe chatting, and that someone raises the speed a tiny bit,, you are probably going to match his speed because you're riding together. This can happen to the point that it's annoying. It's not a huge deal. If that person takes a flyer, that's a different story.
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