Rivendell Atlantis or Vintage
01-01-15, 08:44 AM
#126
a77impala
I would love to own a Rivendell but financial restrictions apply.
Last edited by a77impala; 01-01-15 at 08:56 AM. Reason: error on photos
01-01-15, 09:58 AM
#127
Jedi Master
Rivendell Atlantis or vintage is a false dilemma. If you are in the financial position to consider an Atlantis why not get both?
01-01-15, 08:13 PM
#128
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I also like the mathematics regarding price: For one Atlantis, I can sample 40 or so quality vintage mtn bikes in good condition (assuming I pay no more than $100 per bike). I'd call that a well-rounded education on vintage bikes.
Last edited by AvenirFolder; 01-01-15 at 11:44 PM.
01-01-15, 08:42 PM
#129
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Simple answer to the original question: Vintage. Go back to page one and have a look at Sixty-fiver's ride, a vintage 1987 Kuwahara Cascade that he picked up for all of 25 bucks. Last I read, he'd clocked up 40,000+ kms on it. I own an 85 Miyata Terra Runner (spruced up for touring the GDMBR), 87 Kuwahara Shasta ($50) and an 86 Kuwahara Cascade ($100). Would I spend $4000 on a bike for tooling around town or touring? Nope. Not when I can get a very suitable stand-in for a fraction of that. Loaded down, my Miyata -- which can take 2.25" Marathon Extremes -- does the job and then some. And my bikes all come with the sought-after beausage as well. 
The nice thing with vintage bikes is that you can pick up a second, back-up bike/frame-fork for a song as well -- which might come in handy if your first build suffers any unexpected, accident-caused damage etc. I had my wheels built by SJS Cycles in the UK and shipped over. Why? Because SJS sells the Andra 30 touring rims which are far stronger than anything else on the market including the rim selection from Rivendell. The CSS Andras are virtually bombproof: Cycling About ? Review: Rigida/Ryde Andra 30 Rim + Bicycle Touring: Review: Rims: #1: "Rigida Andra 30 CSS", posted by Sydney Winer*(sydwiner) on Wed 18 Aug 2010 03:18 (US/Pacific) . I like the Andras because I use cantilever brakes which are hard on rim surfaces (I went through a Velocity Aeroheat rear in little over 2000kms this summer.) Since the early to late 80s mtn bikes have a 130mm rear dropout width -- not the later 135mmm -- simply go with an Ultegra roadie hub or equivalent front and rear. The latest Ultegra is the 11-speed 6800 which works with an 8-speed cassette (with the provided spacer). Add a shiny new 46-36-24 Sugino crankset from Riv -- and a suitably sized bottom bracket like the UN55 --and you have yourself a tough tourer and all-rounder.
BTW Grant Petersen often plugs the virtues of old vintage bikes for touring and tooting around. You need go no further than the Rivendell Reader to verify that. As far as his ego goes, I don't know the man but will point to the early issues of the Riv Reader where he bares his soul and faltering ego to the masses. Observation: he holds the same insecurities and fears as the next guy and is simply trying to make a living at what he knows best. I have nothing but admiration for a small businessman who keeps plugging away in a new venture with an uncertain future ahead of him.
However, I still like buying inexpensive vintage bikes. For the same reason, I drive a sturdy 25 year-old vehicle and would never consider buying a new BMW, Cadillac or anything else along those lines even though I can afford them. To me that's wasting money.
The nice thing with vintage bikes is that you can pick up a second, back-up bike/frame-fork for a song as well -- which might come in handy if your first build suffers any unexpected, accident-caused damage etc. I had my wheels built by SJS Cycles in the UK and shipped over. Why? Because SJS sells the Andra 30 touring rims which are far stronger than anything else on the market including the rim selection from Rivendell. The CSS Andras are virtually bombproof: Cycling About ? Review: Rigida/Ryde Andra 30 Rim + Bicycle Touring: Review: Rims: #1: "Rigida Andra 30 CSS", posted by Sydney Winer*(sydwiner) on Wed 18 Aug 2010 03:18 (US/Pacific) . I like the Andras because I use cantilever brakes which are hard on rim surfaces (I went through a Velocity Aeroheat rear in little over 2000kms this summer.) Since the early to late 80s mtn bikes have a 130mm rear dropout width -- not the later 135mmm -- simply go with an Ultegra roadie hub or equivalent front and rear. The latest Ultegra is the 11-speed 6800 which works with an 8-speed cassette (with the provided spacer). Add a shiny new 46-36-24 Sugino crankset from Riv -- and a suitably sized bottom bracket like the UN55 --and you have yourself a tough tourer and all-rounder.
BTW Grant Petersen often plugs the virtues of old vintage bikes for touring and tooting around. You need go no further than the Rivendell Reader to verify that. As far as his ego goes, I don't know the man but will point to the early issues of the Riv Reader where he bares his soul and faltering ego to the masses. Observation: he holds the same insecurities and fears as the next guy and is simply trying to make a living at what he knows best. I have nothing but admiration for a small businessman who keeps plugging away in a new venture with an uncertain future ahead of him.
However, I still like buying inexpensive vintage bikes. For the same reason, I drive a sturdy 25 year-old vehicle and would never consider buying a new BMW, Cadillac or anything else along those lines even though I can afford them. To me that's wasting money.
I know it's a far cry from Rivendell geometry but it is representative of the first "go anywhere" bikes and I also love the historical aspect of the bike.
01-02-15, 04:11 PM
#130
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Tracked the Riv article down to Reader #42 which is freely available online through Rivendell's website (there's also a piece in Grant's book Just Ride on beausage):
.
01-03-15, 12:50 PM
#131
Jedi Master
Tracked the Riv article down to Reader #42 which is freely available online through Rivendell's website (there's also a piece in Grant's book Just Ride on beausage):
I think the target market for a new Rivendell is middle-aged guys with more money than time, so if you're not one of those guys it probably doesn't make any sense to you why anyone would get one.
Because I follow Grant Petersen's advice: Forced to go with one bike, make it an early to late eighties steel mountain bike (of quality) Urban Adventure League: Yet Another New Bike? 1984 Raleigh Crested Butte ("Mountain Tour" edition) + Urban Velo - Bicycle Culture on the Skids (see third page).
To each his own, but I would rather have one Atlantis and a few nice vintage bikes that I really liked than a whole garage full of $100 bikes.
01-03-15, 02:57 PM
#132
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I chose that '85 Crested Butte as an example because it has heli-arc welded joints -- not lugged joints. Heck, how many other bikes of that age were heli-arc welded? I'd love to see one close up as well as others with different/unique features. Note the carrying strap that was also standard on that bike. You'd be surprised what you can pick up for $100 or so. Beasts -- and beauties!
BTW You could also simply resell the ones you don't like. That would give you more money -- allowing you the time to do some touring or extended riding. I have money and time because I don't drop $4000 on a single bike.
Last edited by AvenirFolder; 01-03-15 at 03:10 PM.
01-03-15, 04:14 PM
#133
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I spend my time working to earn money to spend on things I enjoy; whether it's a bike, a BMW, a guitar, a stereo, or a pair of trousers or something fancy for the wife...
The point is that it's anyone's prerogative to spend their money as they see fit.
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01-03-15, 05:15 PM
#134
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01-03-15, 05:24 PM
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I fully understand your point, but there is at least one other approach to spending decisions. Money (savings) = Time (off).
01-03-15, 05:32 PM
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Or, conversely, it's anyone's prerogative to save their money and take extended time off -- that's the time I was talking about -- to actually use a much less expensive vintage bike to tour or toot about on. On page 5 of this thread, I provided a couple of links to Rich and Amanda's way of life as a viable alternative to the usual North American consumerist lifestyle. My wife and I followed the same pattern until an offspring arrived. $4000 would cover at least a couple of months of travel expenses while cheaply bike touring -- even in North America (assuming you're wild camping).
I fully understand your point, but there is at least one other approach to spending decisions. Money (savings) = Time (off).
I fully understand your point, but there is at least one other approach to spending decisions. Money (savings) = Time (off).
01-03-15, 05:35 PM
#137
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Grant's book is flouted as providing scientific grounding/facts -- Eat Bacon, Don't Jog: Main Description: $13.95: Workman Publishing -- so I won't be as quick to judge. I do know that he follows the work of Mark Sisson Books and Media - The Primal Blueprint: Updated and Expanded (Paperback Edition) so it's likely to share a common theme. Since I'm getting it at the library for free, I have little to lose.
01-03-15, 06:35 PM
#139
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Or, conversely, it's anyone's prerogative to save their money and take extended time off -- that's the time I was talking about -- to actually use a much less expensive vintage bike to tour or toot about on. On page 5 of this thread, I provided a couple of links to Rich and Amanda's way of life as a viable alternative to the usual North American consumerist lifestyle. My wife and I followed the same pattern until an offspring arrived. $4000 would cover at least a couple of months of travel expenses while cheaply bike touring -- even in North America (assuming you're wild camping).
I fully understand your point, but there is at least one other approach to spending decisions. Money (savings) = Time (off).
I fully understand your point, but there is at least one other approach to spending decisions. Money (savings) = Time (off).
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
01-03-15, 07:30 PM
#140
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01-03-15, 07:52 PM
#141
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Early retired and mostly self-pensioned. That, after fastitiously saving during the course of a professional occupation. (Not quite as sharply/accurately as Rich and Amanda do or did it but in that spirit.) We live simply and enjoy simple pleasures -- including bike riding. I'm not saying that everyone can afford to do that but spending $4000 on a bike or $45,000+ on a new vehicle is a sure way to NOT do it: The Nine Steps - Financial Integrity (Your Money or Your Life is the book that kicked off the program). Fast way to riches? Nope. It takes a wee bit of time and work.
End result: More bike riding.
End result: More bike riding.
01-03-15, 08:56 PM
#142
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Early retired and mostly self-pensioned. That, after fastitiously saving during the course of a professional occupation. (Not quite as sharply/accurately as Rich and Amanda do or did it but in that spirit.) We live simply and enjoy simple pleasures -- including bike riding. I'm not saying that everyone can afford to do that but spending $4000 on a bike or $45,000+ on a new vehicle is a sure way to NOT do it: The Nine Steps - Financial Integrity (Your Money or Your Life is the book that kicked off the program). Fast way to riches? Nope. It takes a wee bit of time and work.
End result: More bike riding.
End result: More bike riding.
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
01-03-15, 09:03 PM
#143
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Several years ago I'd seen a LHT that was that same "1980s Jeep" gray- and it looked remarkably like my Stumpjumper, but with drops. I've had the intention of doing that to that bike, but the... "stoutness" has kind of deterred me. But it's such a cool bike.
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
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01-03-15, 09:42 PM
#144
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Not everyone can or wants to do that. To each their own. I'm merely pointing out that the practical value of an Atlantis, as nice as it is, does not come close to equaling the practical value of 40 or so inexpensive, quality steel vintage bikes. Three or four maybe. 40? Absolutely not.
Back to the original question: Rivendell Atlantis or vintage? Vintage -- as long as it's in great shape and at a good price.
BTW Nice bike! Rivendell sells new bullmoose bars like that for $150. My '85 Miyata has them, too.
01-03-15, 10:30 PM
#145
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I don't have a garage full of bikes. I have three inexpensive vintage bikes -- in addition to a folder that I got for free -- and I'll probably be paring my vintage collection down to two in the spring. I worked and saved a heap before I retired early at my choosing. Same as many other folks like Rich and Amanda who started early and followed the Nine Step "Your Money or Your Life" program. My wife and I have been doing that since our early twenties. No $4000 bikes, no new BMWs, no big showy house, no flashy anything. Simple living. It ain't rocket science.
Not everyone can or wants to do that. To each their own. I'm merely pointing out that the practical value of an Atlantis, as nice as it is, does not come close to equaling the practical value of 40 or so inexpensive, quality steel vintage bikes. Three or four maybe. 40? Absolutely not.
Back to the original question: Rivendell Atlantis or vintage? Vintage -- as long as it's in great shape and at a good price.
BTW Nice bike! Rivendell sells new bullmoose bars like that for $150. My '85 Miyata has them, too.
Not everyone can or wants to do that. To each their own. I'm merely pointing out that the practical value of an Atlantis, as nice as it is, does not come close to equaling the practical value of 40 or so inexpensive, quality steel vintage bikes. Three or four maybe. 40? Absolutely not.
Back to the original question: Rivendell Atlantis or vintage? Vintage -- as long as it's in great shape and at a good price.
BTW Nice bike! Rivendell sells new bullmoose bars like that for $150. My '85 Miyata has them, too.
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
01-04-15, 08:17 AM
#146
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My closest solution has been to take my old 1995 Trek 730 Multitrack, a 700c bike, and install a 1992 Rockhopper fork on it and deck it out with 26" wheels and Big Apples. I ended up with a bike that is probably very similar to an Atlantis. The front-end handling is probably a few mm's off from the Atlantis, the BB is a bit lower and the chainstays are 1cm shorter, but overall, it's very close to an Atlantis in geometry and probably only gives up a little frame comfort (Atlantis is a .9/.6/.9 bike so it's pretty stout but it does have thinner fork blades than that old Rockhopper fork I'm using).
It is about as ugly as a bike can be but for $2300 difference, I can live with it and hey, I can't see the bike anyway when I'm riding it!
My plan is to eventually buy a 26" LHT frameset and put all of my modern Deore parts on it.
Bikes are almost as hard to photograph well as swords are and this photo exaggerates the vertical dimensions of the bike and compresses the horizontal dimensions. Proportionally, it's much tougher looking in real life. Sort of a long and low look.
Last edited by corwin1968; 01-04-15 at 08:20 AM.
01-04-15, 09:29 AM
#147
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I tried to buy her a new custom or a used Rivendell like mine and she didn't want it.
Great bikes for sure. Tires and brake pads make these come alive.
[IMG]
SANY0062 by gomango1849, on Flickr[/IMG]
01-04-15, 10:11 AM
#148
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My wife rides her 83 Sport constantly in season.
I tried to buy her a new custom or a used Rivendell like mine and she didn't want it.
Great bikes for sure. Tires and brake pads make these come alive.
[IMG]SANY0062 by gomango1849, on Flickr[/IMG]
I tried to buy her a new custom or a used Rivendell like mine and she didn't want it.
Great bikes for sure. Tires and brake pads make these come alive.
[IMG]
SANY0062 by gomango1849, on Flickr[/IMG]I would love to pick up an early 80's Stumpjumper. My 1983 Takara Highlander is my favorite bike but it's having structural issues right now. From the limited amount of information I can find, it's at the entry level of the "good" mountain bikes for that era; cro-mo main tubes, Dia Compe brakes, Suntour Mountech derailleurs, Takagi crank, SR seatpost and stem. I can only imagine what one of the high level Stumpjumpers would be like!
01-04-15, 10:27 AM
#149
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I would love to pick up an early 80's Stumpjumper. My 1983 Takara Highlander is my favorite bike but it's having structural issues right now. From the limited amount of information I can find, it's at the entry level of the "good" mountain bikes for that era; cro-mo main tubes, Dia Compe brakes, Suntour Mountech derailleurs, Takagi crank, SR seatpost and stem. I can only imagine what one of the high level Stumpjumpers would be like!
Bought it before our local CL turned into junk heaven.
Had about 100 miles max on it. Original owner's manual, tires, etc.
All I did was repack the bearings and put on her favorite "go anywhere" tires.
This winter I am tearing it down and treating it to a nos Blackburn front rack and the Ostrich bag from my Bilenky.
New Kool Stops, cables, etc. will have it better than new.
You guys would love to ride this bike.
It's a blast.
01-04-15, 10:43 AM
#150
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My wife rides her 83 Sport constantly in season.
Great bikes for sure. Tires and brake pads make these come alive.
[IMG]SANY0062 by gomango1849, on Flickr[/IMG]
Great bikes for sure. Tires and brake pads make these come alive.
[IMG]
SANY0062 by gomango1849, on Flickr[/IMG]A great looking bike. What kind of tires are those? Size? You mentioned brake pads -- what did you use on that Sport?
