ThermionicScott 

Aw shoot, you're right!

vespasianus

Any luck?

Telkwa

It might be weeks or months before I even try again. Added some sealant and riding as is. The tire has almost no wear so barring catastrophic failure I should be OK for a while. I'm picking up some tubeless stems, rim tape, sealant, etc. so if/when I try to break the tire free from the rim I can try something different as far as tubeless setup.

I hate calling the Trek bike shop and bugging them with questions, but I called yesterday. The mechanic I talked with said he's had much better success rate with the Bontrager rim strips than rim tape. He did suggest trying a different valve stem if I was unhappy with the Bontrager stem. He mentioned the Muc-off stem.

One of you guys suggested the same thing - keep the rim strip, replace the valve stem.

I've got several woodworking clamps. Parallel ones, on the long bars. I wonder if those might work to squeeze the tire off the shoulder? I think the jaws are deep enough to reach past the bulk of the tire.

tankist

I had the same problem with tubeless tires installed by LBS - they glued to the rim too well. So I took my favorite pliers and carefully pried the tires open. No tires were hurt during this operation.

Camilo

I can vouch for that. Using tubes doesn't affect this type of problem (getting the tire bead off of the rim "shelf")

Telkwa

I finally got the tire off the rim. Soap/water, clamps to force the tire to the center, piece of wood and hammer, screwdrivers, etc. A standard size plastic garbage can worked good as a work surface.

I'm done with tubeless. Going back to tubes with Slime.

smd4

I've never come across a standard tubed tire that I wasn't able to remove with my bare hands at minimum, or perhaps a single tire lever, and was able to install using no tools.

vespasianus

Most likely the use of older rims. Newer rims will be tighter and have lower tolerances. As will the tires.

smd4

Makes sense.

Mr. 66

I agree but I wouldn't bother with the slime

Telkwa

Geez, two days ago I wrote an exhaustive account of what I did to get the tire off the rim. It took so long to write that I had to Reload, then all my efforts were lost.
Next time I'll write it up, then copy/paste into the forum.

I was so annoyed with myself that I quickly wrote the above and moved on. I've never used Slime before. So I shoulda wrote "I'm going back to tubes, and I'm gonna try Slime for the first time".

The rails-to-trail that we ride has sharp crushed basaltic rock. Our Conti Protect tires can't stop the basalt chips. We need something more rugged than just dry tubes and tough tires. A friend of ours who rides the trail 3X a week uses Slime. He hasn't had a flat in a long time so I thought I'd try it.

EDIT: I had to reload the tab again. This time I copy/pasted first. Bike Forum kicks me off pretty quickly!

Our friend has a fat tire e-bike. He told me his tires fit so loosely on his rims that he has to make sure the tire stays on until he gets a few pounds of air in. Our Contis are tight to the Bontrager rims. When putting this tire back together the other day the bead wouldn't fully seat at 40#. I deflated, sprayed on some soap/water, reinflated, tire finally snapped on fully at about 30#.

Telkwa

I finally got both tires off the rims. Used the top of a plastic Rubbermaid garbage can as a working platform. I used some vice grips to squeeze the tires toward the center. Soap & water. I think I damaged one tire, because it has a small sideways "whoop" to it now. &$%@ tubeless.

Maybe t/l wroks for some people, but it's been a fussy nightmare for me. I think the Bontrager rims and Conti Protect tires are a poor match. I had to gas the tires up to about 60 # before they seated with loud "snaps". Nobody has responded to my comments about offset rims causing poor contact with the valve stem nuts. I don't see how you can get a tubeless valve stem well secured when the valve stem nut only contacts the rim on one side.

Went back to tubed and got a flat on second ride.

alcjphil

The nut serves to hold the valve stem in place. The seal is formed where the rubber base of the valve stem contacts the rim bed

Telkwa

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I understand that the seal is at the base of the valve stem. It's just that when the valve stem nut doesn't contact the rim evenly it can't be as secure as even contact with the rim. Plus, since the nut is only contacting the rim partially, the nut is more likely to loosen due to vibration, etc.

FSA makes neat little wedges that fit between the offset rim and the valve stem nut. I bought a few of them. I think they do help, but it all feels a bit like Band-Aids to me.

Camilo

On Youtube there are several videos of people getting difficult tubeless tires off of rims. The main (and pretty much only) issue is getting it started - pushing the bead in towards the center low spot, across the "shelf" between the low spot and the rim. If that makes sense. Anyway, do a youtube search, you might find something that works. I had a rim like that and I had to squeeze the tire in a bench vice to get it to release. Carefully of course so as not to harm the rim.

Telkwa

I feel like an idiot for not googling, but apparently there are some tools that might help with this.
Such as this Bikehand gizmo.
It's plastic so who knows if it'll hold up. I think I'm gonna give it a try. There are other strange little tools like the Rehook Tire Glider. Anyone have any experience with these alternatives to plain old levers?
I like the idea of a clamping device like the Bikehand. Seems like a person could keep some pressure on the Bikehand while using the other hand to check that the far side of the tire is in the channel.

Camilo, I used two of these to squeeze the tire off the bead. Worked OK. Gripping the tire, then pulling away from the rim and twisting seemed to help break the death grip.

drlogik 

If all else fails, try orange citrus degreaser sparingly in one spot to see if it will soften the "sticky"...or hurt the tire. Let it sit and seep into the bead for a few minutes then try to separate. I don't think it will hurt the tire but you will want to wash it off with sudsy water before putting it back on the rim. Orange degreaser does a good job of removing some glues and adhesives.

Mojo31

That brilliance only works if you can get the beads off the hook. OP cannot get his beads off the hooks.

ThermionicScott 

Yer a little slow on the draw there, pardner.

Lombard

Some tire/rim combos are simply impossible to work with. You could use a bead jack, but not sure that you want to carry that around with you in case you get a flat.

I had a pair of WTB KOM rims and WTB Byway tires that were an absolutely impossible combo to work with. I ditched the Byways, replaced them with Panaracer GK's.

drlogik 

Try the old toe strap trick. Works every time. Get the bead started and when you get to the point where it won't go on the rim, tie on a toe strap tight at that spot then push the other side into the bead. The toe strap holds the bead for you so you can use both thumbs to roll the other side of the bead onto the rim.

If you don't have a toe strap a zip tie or shoe lace will work also.




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Telkwa

Thanks for the help, guys -
I'll share something real quick. Although I've changed tires since I was a kid, I was missing something that some of you mentioned several times above. I didn't pay much attention to where the far side tire bead was while prying. Yesterday I put extra effort into keeping the tire bead in the center channel. I got the tire off with just one levering action, then sliding the lever sideways.
What really amazed me was I got the tire back on with no levering tool at all. Just made sure to keep the far side bead in the center channel.
This was with the Bontrager Duster Elite rims and Conti tires that I've been complaining about.
I was so proud of myself!
I used soap and water, which is now part of the routine instead of something I do when things are really stuck.
Stumbled onto something during installation that might help others. I set the wheel halfway onto a countertop. Pulled it back a little bit until the center of the wheel dropped off the countertop, then pushed the wheel against the counter edge with my stomach. That helped keep the tire bead in the channel, and freed up both hands to work the tire back on the rim. Worked really good.

ThermionicScott 

Nicely done!

Lombard

This is key.

smd4

Classic bike shop tip!