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Remind Me Why I Should Care What Motorists Think...

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Remind Me Why I Should Care What Motorists Think...

Old 01-26-15, 10:17 AM
  #26  
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You have to care to a certain extent when you are out on the road because someone in a car could kill or injure you.

However, JoeyBike's point is one that I have argued many times which is: drivers' opinions on the lawlessness of cyclists are wildly inaccurate and not the least bit objective, and are ultimately irrelevant to discussion of cyclist safety, and only meant as a distraction from the actual threat that drivers pose to cyclists and pedestrians.
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Old 01-26-15, 10:35 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
Isn't being concerned about horn blowing and engine revving "being concerned about what motorists think?"
No. The aggression that likely follows the horn blowing and engine revving if I hold my ground is what concerns me. Most likely a close, dangerous pass first chance they get. Unnecessary danger to me is what concerns me. Running certain red lights properly and safely greatly reduced danger from overtaking motorists on certain streets where I ride. If ZERO motor vehicles overtake me then ZERO can assault me.
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Old 01-26-15, 10:43 AM
  #28  
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I do not have to care what they think...I do have to ride in a manner that increases my safety...
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Old 01-26-15, 10:59 AM
  #29  
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So just to encapsulate: how cyclists behave on the road is unimportant because it doesn't affect how motorists act toward us. And because of the way motorists act, cyclists are justified in behaving however they want.

IOW, cyclists are reacting to driver's behavior while simultaneously claiming that there's no reason to believe drivers will react to cyclist's behavior.

There's some some weird **** on this forum.
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Old 01-26-15, 11:01 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
Not caring because nobody else does...........What a sad statement, rationalizing mediocrity of character.


What ever happened to personal integrity, and being positive despite influences to the contrary.....

Do not confuse having "personal integrity" with "following every law to the letter".
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Old 01-26-15, 11:11 AM
  #31  
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Your initial criteria is severely flawed. You are counting cars speeding vs cars driving below the speed limit. This absolutely ignores the thousands of cars driving on the highway at the same rate you are driving. Fail.

You make broad, generalized conclusions that no motorists are worthy of your concern, based on the number of speeding cars you counted on a certain stretch of highway. It's not a reasonable or balanced method of determining behavior, whether applying to motorists or cyclists. Fail.

Overall, a failed experiment. It did produce another thread for BFers to vent their hatred for motorists, though.
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Old 01-26-15, 11:31 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5 View Post
Your initial criteria is severely flawed. You are counting cars speeding vs cars driving below the speed limit. This absolutely ignores the thousands of cars driving on the highway at the same rate you are driving. Fail.
This is why I drove 5 miles above the limit for the first 20 miles. So I could count the number of cars doing the limit exactly. I do realize that it would take time to overtake them as compared to cars passing me at 10+ the limit. But ZERO!!??

Certainly a stationary cop with a radar equipment might get better statistics on a 2 or even 4-lane highway assuming the radar is really accurate, which I doubt. But with 12 lanes of traffic there is no way he could hit every one he sees like my experiment accomplished.

I believe that 30 miles, 1000+ vehicles driving MORE THAN 5 miles over the limit as compared to 2 doing the limit is significant. If I passed no one and no one passed me, I would have to assume that everyone was driving near my speed. Not even close.

Every study is flawed, but not necessarily useless.

Last edited by JoeyBike; 01-26-15 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 01-26-15, 12:21 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
Do not confuse having "personal integrity" with "following every law to the letter".
Totally agree, but the "letter of the law", doing the right thing, and behaving bad because others do are three different things.
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Old 01-26-15, 12:30 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
Totally agree, but the "letter of the law", doing the right thing, and behaving bad because others do are three different things.
Let me make this clear.

I do not run red lights because motorists break the law wantonly. I simply have no REMORSE or feel any OBLIGATION to appease the same scofflaw motorists. Pot...meet Kettle.

In my OP I asked a question. I will rephrase it: Why-Oh-Why should I care what motorists think about my breaking laws on my bicycle if it has no impact on them other than offending their tender visual sensibilities? Especially given their track record with the law. Why?
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Old 01-26-15, 12:31 PM
  #35  
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There's a road in Metro Detroit, Telegraph Rd, which has the lights timed for about 48 MPH. If you go that speed, you can go probably 20 or 30 miles without hitting a light.

Yet it's easy to drive down it and watch idiots charge from one light to the next. Sometimes there are enough of them that they actually cause people trying to go 48 MPH to slow down and miss lights because there's such a pack of them stopped at the light that they can't get going in time and the followers have to slow down.
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Old 01-26-15, 01:42 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by bicyclelove View Post
Taking the lane is legal, running red lights isn't.
Running red lights is legal... if the light in question does not detect cyclists and respond to them. Of course to a casual observer, this appears to be "just another scofflaw cyclist."
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Old 01-26-15, 02:30 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post

In my OP I asked a question. I will rephrase it: Why-Oh-Why should I care what motorists think about my breaking laws on my bicycle if it has no impact on them other than offending their tender visual sensibilities? Especially given their track record with the law. Why?
Because its wrong to judge an entire group by the actions of a few, or pretend that all transgressions are equal.
One can't quantify the perceptions of others by their own standards, just because I'm comfortable with something doesn't mean it won't impact others negatively.

IMO, its far less important that the transgression is wrong, what matters is when its done without care or consideration.
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Old 01-26-15, 02:37 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by bicyclelove View Post
Taking the lane is legal, running red lights isn't.
Yes, That is correct. I was just equating them from a safety standpoint, in terms of not caring what motorists' think.
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Old 01-26-15, 04:00 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Running red lights is legal... if the light in question does not detect cyclists and respond to them. Of course to a casual observer, this appears to be "just another scofflaw cyclist."
You are correct. A bike or motorbike can go through a red after waiting a reasonable amount of time. At least that is how the law reads in MN.
I will add to that by saying if a car is next to you in the lane it wouldn't be legal to blow that light as they will have tripped the sensor already.
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Old 01-26-15, 04:22 PM
  #40  
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I don't believe for a minute that if all drivers gave up their scofflaw ways and obeyed all teh rulez, that there would be an outpouring of joy and road sharing comradeship on the part of all cyclists. Not for one minute.
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Old 01-26-15, 05:23 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
I don't believe for a minute that if all drivers gave up their scofflaw ways and obeyed all teh rulez, that there would be an outpouring of joy and road sharing comradeship on the part of all cyclists. Not for one minute.
We will never know for sure. Humans are by nature fairly despicable creatures. That's about all the clues we have regarding your statement. I tend to agree with you tho.
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Old 01-26-15, 05:33 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by bicyclelove View Post
You are correct. A bike or motorbike can go through a red after waiting a reasonable amount of time. At least that is how the law reads in MN.
I will add to that by saying if a car is next to you in the lane it wouldn't be legal to blow that light as they will have tripped the sensor already.
Quite true... but I know what has happened to me in the past is I come to an intersection that I use all the time and I know the light doesn't sense me... I don't wait long... then I go, and as I pull away in safe break in traffic, some motorist pulls up behind me and has to stop. To that motorist... I just ran a light... there is no way I could convince them that I know the light, I've waited for it in the past and I know it won't see me. Others that may see my actions may also interpret it as "running a light."

Of course a light I don't know... I wait for, or hope for a car to come by and trip it.

I tend to know the traffic patterns on my commutes... as I am sure others do... I know which lights work, what their timing is... what lane to be in... it all comes from observing traffic.

Not everyone is like this... I have passed on information to others... such as my wife... and yet she still goes to the same traffic light that is ALWAYS delayed by the local trolley at the station... or she still refuses to turn a block before the intersection that always takes two light cycles to clear 4 cars. Not everyone retains traffic info.
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Old 01-26-15, 05:34 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
I don't believe for a minute that if all drivers gave up their scofflaw ways and obeyed all teh rulez, that there would be an outpouring of joy and road sharing comradeship on the part of all cyclists. Not for one minute.
Let them do this and let's see. GRIN
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Old 01-26-15, 05:41 PM
  #44  
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Well I just got done talking about I hadn't had any problems, and then today! I'm cruising along, at 5 below... on my bicycle! Doing 15mph in a 20mph street in town. Pedaling along nicely. And I came up and noticed a big yellow bus that was pulling out of a school parking lot on an adjacent road. It then proceeded to blow the stop sign (didn't even slow down, rolled right on through it while accelerating. I guess they figured stopping in the parking lot at the school 100 feet away was sufficient enough to not to need to stop at this stop sign), and force me to brake hard to avoid hitting them. There's a small spike in heart rate that coincides with a sharp drop in speed on my log. Gee, wonder why that was The worst part? She gave me a friendly wave as she barreled on through. Like I was letting her out. The guy in the pickup truck behind me then also waved at her. Er... but it was less friendly. I think he was saying she was number one. I then got a thumbs up from him when he passed me later.

The best part? This road with a stop sign is perpendicular to a "Share the Road" cyclist sign on the main thoroughfare (that I was on).
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Old 01-26-15, 06:10 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by RomansFiveEight View Post
The best part? This road with a stop sign is perpendicular to a "Share the Road" cyclist sign on the main thoroughfare (that I was on).
She made you "share" the road didn't she?
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Old 01-26-15, 06:22 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
She made you "share" the road didn't she?


That is exactly the way I think motorists interpret such signs...
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Old 01-26-15, 07:09 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
She made you "share" the road didn't she?
Good one! Funny but sadly true.
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Old 01-26-15, 07:45 PM
  #48  
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I don't ride my bicycle to ingratiate myself to motorists.
That is a gaping maw of eternal hunger.
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Old 01-27-15, 05:12 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by bicyclelove View Post
This is really the biggest thing I hear from drivers...
You are forgetting a few:

1. Bikers/cyclists are entitled (or think they are better than us.)
2. Bikers/cyclists don't pay for bike lanes/roads.
3. Bikers/cyclists ride in the middle of the lane (and should ride on the sidewalk/or on a different road/or not at all)).
4. Bikers/cyclists ride too slowly (and should ride on the sidewalk/or on a different road/or not at all).
5. Bikers/cyclists ride on the sidewalk and should ride in the bike lane (or on a different road/or not at all).
6. Bikers/cyclists roll stop signs.
7. Bikers/cyclists wear dark clothing/lycra/chartreuse/tights.
8. Bikers/cyclists don't wear helmets.
9. Bikers/cyclists don't use lights.

Last edited by spare_wheel; 01-27-15 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 01-27-15, 05:20 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by bicyclelove View Post
I will add to that by saying if a car is next to you in the lane it wouldn't be legal to blow that light as they will have tripped the sensor already.
Ironically, I am more likely to jaybike or jaywalk across a red light with a car next to me. I believe it's my duty as a cycling/pedestrian advocate to illustrate that irrelevant-to-safety car-centric traffic statutes are not worth the paper they are written on.
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