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It's not a hoax

 
Old 04-13-20, 11:14 AM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
I got kicked out of that forum a few years ago But when the aliens land I will have a cold beer for them. I think the aliens will appreciate the efficiency of my bicycles.. ET thought cauliflower was mash potatoes and wasn’t impressed.
Word of God, that's where there zombie pathogen came from in The Walking Dead series.
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Old 04-13-20, 11:53 AM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
As usual, it is the exact opposite of what you claim:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/u...ndercount.html

But keep making stuff up. That is the only way we can ever get through this. We have to pretend the problem doesn't really exist.
We are over reporting deaths if the government is directing health care organizations to report death due to coronavirus ever if the person had a massive heart attack but had the virus.Not really very scientific.

Last edited by Trooper; 04-13-20 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 04-13-20, 12:25 PM
  #153  
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Post #3 , I live in central Ohio, and I'd say maybe a quarter of the people here believe like that. Original poster, thank you.
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Old 04-13-20, 01:05 PM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by Trooper View Post
We are over reporting deaths if the government is directing health care organizations to report death due to coronavirus ever if the person had a massive heart attack but had the virus.Not really very scientific.

Oh, yeah, those things happen by coincidence all the time.

Get serious. You don't know what you're talking about.
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Old 04-13-20, 01:21 PM
  #155  
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We're over reporting deaths if we want to keep the numbers artificially low.
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Old 04-13-20, 01:51 PM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Oh, yeah, those things happen by coincidence all the time.

Get serious. You don't know what you're talking about.
Do you know me? No? Then why would you presume that I don't know what I am talking about?

Do you go out of your way to be an orifice for bodily waste?

I'm done with you.
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Old 04-13-20, 01:56 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by Trooper View Post
Do you know me? No? Then why would you presume that I don't know what I am talking about?

Do you go out of your way to be an orifice for bodily waste?

I'm done with you.

I don't need to know you--I know what you posted and it's clearly ignorant garbage.

Y'all appear to be making up a scenario that doesn't occur in real life. If you seriously believe it, what's your proof that it's happening? Somebody who actually knows what they're talking about should be able to explain where they got it from. Instead, you just throw out a pretty crappy playground insult.
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Old 04-13-20, 02:00 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by Trooper View Post
We are over reporting deaths if the government is directing health care organizations to report death due to coronavirus ever if the person had a massive heart attack but had the virus.Not really very scientific.
Every fill out a death certificate? Didn't think so.

Here is the CDC's Guidance for Certifying Deaths Due to Coronavirus Disease 2019.
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Old 04-13-20, 02:21 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Every fill out a death certificate? Didn't think so.

Here is the CDC's Guidance for Certifying Deaths Due to Coronavirus Disease 2019.

Thanks for posting that.


That's the thing--it's not like COVID just causes people to drop dead, the complications of infection are so well-known at this point that the testing is probably only confirming what's obvious at the point of death.

I suppose it's theoretically possible someone could coincidentally drop dead of a massive heart attack just as they got an uncomplicated COVID infection, but what's the likelihood that someone would even suspect COVID was involved and actually do the test? OTOH, someone having a heart attack while suffering from COVID-induced ARDS almost certainly was killed by the complications of the infection, which the criteria you just posted would lead to the listing of COVID as UCOD..

BTW, I know I'm talking through my hat, but this "every death is being attributed to COVID" thing is turning into a conspiracy theory, and I think it's obvious even to lay people that it's implausible.
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Old 04-13-20, 02:26 PM
  #160  
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It comes from the Fox talking heads and other propagandists
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...-toll-inflated.
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Old 04-13-20, 02:44 PM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
It comes from the Fox talking heads and other propagandists
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...-toll-inflated.

Figures.

If the person was tested, it's because they were dying from or had died from a set of conditions that looked like the complications of a COVID infection, so it's an absurd stretch of probabilities to think that significant numbers of people just happened to die from something else while they developed ARDS for example.
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Old 04-13-20, 03:06 PM
  #162  
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1,500 known COVID deaths yesterday in the US. We haven't been seeing 1,000 diabetes deaths every day before this started. Not counting deaths as from the caronavirus if people have a risk factor for the virus is as dishonest as you can get. This is being actively played down for political reasons.
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Old 04-13-20, 03:26 PM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I don't need to know you--I know what you posted and it's clearly ignorant garbage.

Y'all appear to be making up a scenario that doesn't occur in real life. If you seriously believe it, what's your proof that it's happening? Somebody who actually knows what they're talking about should be able to explain where they got it from. Instead, you just throw out a pretty crappy playground insult.
Some days I really wish I could meet people like you face to face. I will laugh when you crap your pants. I'm done. You are insignificant to me. Goodbye.
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Old 04-13-20, 03:31 PM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Every fill out a death certificate? Didn't think so.

Here is the CDC's Guidance for Certifying Deaths Due to Coronavirus Disease 2019.
I understand this. This is very ambiguous and the CDC knows this.
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Old 04-13-20, 03:37 PM
  #165  
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I wonder why ^^They bothered to dust off their account?
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Old 04-13-20, 03:54 PM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by Trooper View Post
I understand this. This is very ambiguous and the CDC knows this.
The guidance is not ambiguous, it's general because the proximate and underlying causes on a death certificate are left to the judgement the certifying physician by the laws of every state and the CDC would be roundly criticized for inserting itself into that process if it were more specific. And yes, the CDC knows this because it's run, thank God, by physicians.

What would you have them say?
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Old 04-13-20, 04:17 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by Trooper View Post
Some days I really wish I could meet people like you face to face. I will laugh when you crap your pants. I'm done. You are insignificant to me. Goodbye.

Wow, you sound really, really smart.
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Old 04-13-20, 04:19 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
The guidance is not ambiguous, it's general because the proximate and underlying causes on a death certificate are left to the judgement the certifying physician by the laws of every state and the CDC would be roundly criticized for inserting itself into that process if it were more specific. And yes, the CDC knows this because it's run, thank God, by physicians.

What would you have them say?

He's going to scare them into crapping their pants.
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Old 04-13-20, 04:43 PM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
He's going to scare them into crapping their pants.
Actually, I have been unfair to Trooper and a little disingenuous because (s)he is, of course correct that we are in all likelihood overestimating the death rate. However, it is not because hanky panky with cause of death, but because we are grossly undercounting cases of infection. In Iceland, which has tested about 10% of its population, it looks as though only about half of cases even become symptomatic and they've had 9 deaths out of about 1700 cases.

The Icelanders are tough (I have one for a soon to be son in law), healthy, and have universal access to very good health care, so our case fatality numbers won't be as good, but, with possible exception of poor and crowded communities, our numbers probably won't be as bad as they look now.
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Old 04-13-20, 05:00 PM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Actually, I have been unfair to Trooper and a little disingenuous because (s)he is, of course correct that we are in all likelihood overestimating the death rate. However, it is not because hanky panky with cause of death, but because we are grossly undercounting cases of infection. In Iceland, which has tested about 10% of its population, it looks as though only about half of cases even become symptomatic and they've had 9 deaths out of about 1700 cases.

The Icelanders are tough (I have one for a soon to be son in law), healthy, and have universal access to very good health care, so our case fatality numbers won't be as good, but, with possible exception of poor and crowded communities, our numbers probably won't be as bad as they look now.
All due respect, but you haven't been unfair to Trooper at all. They weren't discussing the death rate, which everyone knows is over-estimated because we don't know the number of infections. Trooper was claiming that the number of deaths is over-stated, which is just implausible. The number of deaths is under-counted, while the death rate is over-stated.
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Old 04-13-20, 05:18 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by Trooper View Post
Goodbye.
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Old 04-13-20, 05:24 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by Trooper View Post
Some days I really wish I could meet people like you face to face. I will laugh when you crap your pants. I'm done. You are insignificant to me. Goodbye.
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Old 04-13-20, 07:00 PM
  #173  
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To all on this thread I reread my postings and realized I was rude. Not my best moments. I apologize to everyone here. I come to Bike Forums to read postings about bicycling and I took a turn down a rabbit hole. I don't post very much as many can tell by my total posts but I enjoy the various cycling focused forums.

Best wishes to all. Hope all have a smooth ride ahead of them.
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Old 04-13-20, 07:18 PM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
All due respect, but you haven't been unfair to Trooper at all. They weren't discussing the death rate, which everyone knows is over-estimated because we don't know the number of infections. Trooper was claiming that the number of deaths is over-stated, which is just implausible. The number of deaths is under-counted, while the death rate is over-stated.
Point taken.
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Old 04-13-20, 07:50 PM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by Trooper View Post
To all on this thread I reread my postings and realized I was rude. Not my best moments. I apologize to everyone here. I come to Bike Forums to read postings about bicycling and I took a turn down a rabbit hole. I don't post very much as many can tell by my total posts but I enjoy the various cycling focused forums.

Best wishes to all. Hope all have a smooth ride ahead of them.

I wish you well.

Please understand that this gets heated because there's people who are pushing distorted talking points for political reasons. Unfortunately, I think you got bitten by some of that. I've yet to hear or read anyone with medical knowledge who thinks cv deaths are being over-counted. If this wasn't literally a life and death issue, I'd be more inclined to ignore it, but I can't help but notice that the people pushing the latest nonsense are the same ones who were telling us everything was fine about a month ago.
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