TiHabanero

Only a topic bike nerds can enjoy beating to death.

Who cares?

freeranger

We must be around the same age. I prefer well-adjusted indexed shifting over friction. Friction doesn't require as precision in tuning as do indexed, but I've never found tuning indexed a major (or minor) problem.

Maelochs

I have Ultegra on one bike and it is flawless ... i am not sure if it is the cable or something else, but it is not the basic mechanism, and as you know, has nothing to do with indexed or friction or levers or brifters ... that is weird and would certainly bother me. I would suspect derailleur hanger or dropout or frame in some other way got bent.

rsbob 

68

Carbonfiberboy 

I have bar-end friction on my rain bike. I like it. I like never having to mess with it, just grab the bike and go. Number of cogs on the cassette doesn't matter, just matters if the cassette fits the hub. It's never out of adjustment. The instant it takes to tune the shift doesn't bother me. Plus I had the shifters in one of my spares boxes when I built Fred, my rain bike, taken off some bike sometime, so free. It's a triple and never having to mess with getting that precisely adjusted is also a pleasure.

robo

I feel like I time traveled back 35 years seeing this discussion

I grew up with friction shifting as a kid, got my first indexed bike when I was 12, and went back to riding friction for a while a couple years ago when the indexing on my Ultegra bar-end shifter on my commuter bike gave out after a decade - rode it like that for about 6 months before I bothered installing a fresh shifter.

IMO, indexing is obviously better in almost all situations provided the bike is maintained or the owner knows how to turn the barrel adjuster to trim the derailleur. Friction is fine too, but falls down if you want to be able to shift quickly, or if you're riding in a noisy or bumpy place where it can be hard to feel/hear if your derailleur is positioned correctly for the gear you're in. The latter was the case while commuting in the city for me. It was fine, I dealt with it, but it made me appreciate the indexing more. If I only rode on smooth quiet roads, I might have procrastinated longer before replacing the worn shifter.

socalife

When riding back in the 70s it was all friction. Cables were not teflon lined yet and I lived in a rainy area and did not perform maintenance very well ( I was a stupid stoner teen). I always struggled to find every gear I wanted, especially on the next to highest speed freewheel. These were all 5 speed huret components. Recently got into vintage with a Viner from early 80s 6 speed freewheel down tube shifter. This bike was shimano 600 and I rode for a while hoping my hand would re aquire the needed muscle memory. Then I started reading the C+V forum and discovered there were indexed DT shifters back then. Found a pair on Ebay and never looked back. Riding with stop lights means being able to find a shifter in a hurry, counting clicks is easier for down shifts, however, taking hands off the bar in traffic will always be an added risk, so I see modern drive trains using brifters being safer for me.

Camilo

I "grew up" with friction also. I'm not sure, but I think the last friction bike I owned was 6 sprockets in back. I liked friction shifting but have to say indexed shifting is better for me now.

I tried friction again a few years ago when I was building up a vintage frame, with a 9 speed cassette. I could do it, but the precision involved was tricky. Regular mis-shifts, lots of ghost shifts from imprecise trimming, etc. I could have probably gotten it down, and actually could do it very well when I put an 8 speed cassette on it, but 9 seemed to be too fussy for me. I magine 10 or 11 speed friction would require very fine motor skills as well as some practice and experience. I ended up finding some Campy indexed 8 speed DT shifters anyway, and like them a lot. Love my combo brake/shift levers too.

RCMoeur 

Learned how to friction shift as a kid, haven't forgotten how, and still have friction on some of my bikes (commuter, recumbent).

I appreciate index shifting on bikes where I have a high workload, such as the tandem or the racer. I could function OK with friction in those situations (and did for years), but these days I'm glad I don't have to worry about trimming a derailleur when dealing with a stoker or in a tight pack or paceline.

That being said, one of the most annoying pieces of human-built machinery in existence is a poorly-adjusted index-shifting bike that shifts erratically, unpredictably, or not at all.

Here's a "thumbie up" from my ancient Suntour friction shifter.

genejockey 

Like most folks my age, I had a "ten speed" as a teenager, with friction shifting. I never liked taking my hands off the bars to shift, so I ended up "upgrading" my bike to stem-mounted shifters. And like a most folks my age, I stopped riding as soon as I got a drivers license.

Then 25 years ago I started riding again, and over tens of thousands of miles, I've become much better at bike handling than I was as a kid. A couple years ago I built up an old Cannondale frame I had with indexed DT shifters and found I was now completely comfortable taking a hand off the bars to shift. So I got a couple 80s bikes with DT friction shifters, and I'm fine with those, too, though I still find indexed shifting a lot easier to handle - *clik* and you're in the next gear. Sometimes a quick flick of the lever with friction shifters goes too far, and I've gone two gears.

phughes

I prefer friction, on my touring bike, but I would say that indexed works better as the number of gears increase, as in more cogs on the cassette. As you get more cogs on the cassette. like a ten speed cassette, it takes more effort to fine tune with friction. I use friction with a 9 speed, and I love it. The added benefit of friction is that it is easy to run from the small cog to the top, or top to bottom in one fell swoop.

DonkeyShow

Is there dt indexed shifting? What's the deal with that?

Xavier65

Friction shifters are fine for selecting between 3-6 gears - like a trombonist hitting the right notes. But, beyond 6 gears, the chain has to be just right, and you'd be forever tweaking the shifter to get the sweet spot after each gear change.

I still have friction shifters on my 3x6 mountain bike, and don't really notice they're not indexed (I know the gears off by heart).

However, indexed shifters are delightful in comparison. Once you've installed them on a bike, there's no going back.

Eric F 

Indexed shifting was developed before dual-control levers were a thing.

genejockey 

Of course! Indexed shifting predates brifters. Indexed DT shifters came out in about 1986 or so, and were available into the mid-90s. I've got bikes with 7 and 8 speed indexed DT shifters.

icemilkcoffee 

Reliability is very good with modern STI, but they do tend to gum up with high mileage. Especially in cold weather.
Whereas downtube shifters are much more foolproof. There is little mechanism to gum up, and very little cable housing to wear out. Another advantage of DT shifting is the mechanical feel. You can really feel the gear teeth engaging with the chain.
Downtube indexed shifting is the best option option for people who want to try out DT shifting. As for friction shifting - I see no reason for that to exist anymore.

Eric F 

Don't say that in the C&V section

DonkeyShow

Interesting, would love to try some. Gotta admit brifters may be faster but dt shifting is much cooler.

79pmooney

I had SunTour Command on my Mooney for a few years. OK. Hands on the bars shifting. Well thought out. But my (pre internet) access to SunTour FWs dried up, I switched to SRAM FWs and suffered poorer shifting, Going back to DT friction (actually SunTour Power Ratchet) was a blessing. Now I run that shifter on one bike, Superbe top mounted on my custom and the SunTour auto-corrects on a third. That third is a race bike that came with them. Running a 7-speed Cyclone and racing triple, simple as sweet as friction shifting gets. The 9-speed custom with those nice levers, different but not far off. (Until I got this bike, I'd never ridden better friction.)

And to @icemilkcoffee's last sentence - that race bike? I just picked up a sweet wheel that came with a Dura Ace 6-speed in very useful gearing. Same 126 OLD so a drop in swap for the 7-speed FW. I might have to tweak the limit screws. And done. Cant do that with any index system I know of.

genejockey 

Until you're halfway up a sharp pitch, out of the saddle, and you bog down and need to go to a larger cog.

jon c. 

Like many here I rode friction ten speeds when I was young.

Didn't ride for a number of years and when I started again I went through a couple of bikes with indexed shifting. Then I found a vintage ride with DT friction. It just felt right. The old feelings returned. So I only have friction bikes now. There are objective downsides, but to a solo rider not trying for PRs they really don't matter. Ride what feels good.

xroadcharlie

My previous bikes, A 2 x 5 speed road bike had downtube mounted friction shifters and 2 x 6 speed mountain bike had stem mounted friction shifters. I never had a problem with either of them. My current 3 x 7 speed comfort bike has twist grip indexed shifters. I like the indexing part, but the twist grip shifting for the 3 chainrings needs a lot of travel.

I wanted the trigger shifters but Giant used the twist grip design on my 2018 Sedona. I was expecting inadvertent shifting to be a problem, But was pleasantly surprised to see with a little experience they work quite well overall.

Trakhak

I remember my first ride on a bike with Shimano indexed downtube shifters---the pleasure of that authoritative clunk into gear after decades of the drunkard's walk of friction shifters.

Random11

In 1977 I bought a "10 speed" with friction shifters to commute. I moved a year later and didn't ride a bike again for 40 years. Comparing my bikes now to what I remember about my old 10 speed, the biggest improvement I notice in modern bikes is indexed shifting.

smd4

My first bike shop bike—a Centurion Sport DLX—had friction shifters. But the shop had a Centurion Prestige with 7400 Dura Ace on display. I remember reaching up and moving the lever a click or two (much to the shop owner’s wife’s consternation). It was the stuff of my imagination. I knew right then and there the Sport DLX wouldn’t be around long.