Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Assessing bent derailleur hanger?

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Assessing bent derailleur hanger?

Old 06-06-23, 09:48 AM
  #1  
rbrides
Curmudgeon
Thread Starter
 
rbrides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Triangle NC
Posts: 327

Bikes: Specialized Diverge Comp

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 25 Posts
Assessing bent derailleur hanger?

visually, my hanger appear very slightly bent. I am considering removing it and testing with a straight edge but then I wondered;

1. are hangers always manufactured perfectly straight?
2. is ANY amount of bend acceptable?
3. is it acceptable to attempt to straighten it with a hammer on an anvil?
rbrides is offline  
Old 06-06-23, 10:01 AM
  #2  
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,836

Bikes: Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1924 Post(s)
Liked 729 Times in 417 Posts
1. No
2. Maybe
3. No
Adjust hanger while mounted on the bike. Use the Hanger Alignment Tool. Ust the correct tool for this job.
trailangel is offline  
Likes For trailangel:
Old 06-06-23, 10:10 AM
  #3  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,266

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 300 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25355 Post(s)
Liked 9,269 Times in 6,455 Posts
__________________
3alarmer is offline  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 06-06-23, 10:16 AM
  #4  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 12,431

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3915 Post(s)
Liked 3,380 Times in 2,270 Posts
Use a proper hanger or derailleur alignment gauge pick a spot on the wheel like the valve hole and use that to straighten it if you know what you are doing, otherwise just have a shop do it. The correct tool is not necessarily a cheap tool and the job is one you want to do with accuracy and some knowledge on the topic to not make it worse.

I would not recommend the just bang on it or bend it with other tools "method" as I am sure some one will suggest because it worked for them. Just do it right and then not have to worry.
veganbikes is offline  
Likes For veganbikes:
Old 06-06-23, 10:42 AM
  #5  
Barry2 
LRP=HR
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,954

Bikes: Holdsworth 1979 Special, C-dale 1993 MT3000 Tandem & 1996 F700CAD3, Cervelo 2022 R5 & 2018 R3, JustGo Runt, Ridley Oval, Kickr Bike 8-)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 767 Post(s)
Liked 1,034 Times in 597 Posts
You can't test a hanger for correct alignment with it off the bike.
The process of aligning the hanger on the bike, places bends in it that are customized to your frame.
Even if you were to purchase a brand new hanger, these custom bends will be required to align it for use on your frame.

Hope that helps

Barry
Barry2 is offline  
Likes For Barry2:
Old 06-06-23, 11:27 AM
  #6  
davidad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,644
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 572 Post(s)
Liked 167 Times in 135 Posts
If you don't have the tool you can check the alignment by removing the deer. and screwing in a spare or borrowed rear wheel. They are both 10X1 mm. If the wheels are parallel, there is no problem., If not use the spare wheel to realign the hanger Once. Aluminum doesn't take to a lot of rebending..
davidad is offline  
Likes For davidad:
Old 06-06-23, 11:38 AM
  #7  
rbrides
Curmudgeon
Thread Starter
 
rbrides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Triangle NC
Posts: 327

Bikes: Specialized Diverge Comp

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 25 Posts
Originally Posted by rbrides
visually, my hanger appear very slightly bent. I am considering removing it and testing with a straight edge but then I wondered;

1. are hangers always manufactured perfectly straight?
2. is ANY amount of bend acceptable?
3. is it acceptable to attempt to straighten it with a hammer on an anvil?
Originally Posted by trailangel
1. No
2. Maybe
3. No
Adjust hanger while mounted on the bike. Use the Hanger Alignment Tool. Ust the correct tool for this job.
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
Originally Posted by veganbikes
Use a proper hanger or derailleur alignment gauge pick a spot on the wheel like the valve hole and use that to straighten it if you know what you are doing, otherwise just have a shop do it. The correct tool is not necessarily a cheap tool and the job is one you want to do with accuracy and some knowledge on the topic to not make it worse.

I would not recommend the just bang on it or bend it with other tools "method" as I am sure some one will suggest because it worked for them. Just do it right and then not have to worry.
Originally Posted by Barry2
You can't test a hanger for correct alignment with it off the bike.
The process of aligning the hanger on the bike, places bends in it that are customized to your frame.
Even if you were to purchase a brand new hanger, these custom bends will be required to align it for use on your frame.

Hope that helps

Barry
What brand & model alignment tool do you guys recommend?
rbrides is offline  
Old 06-06-23, 11:59 AM
  #8  
Schweinhund
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 1,392

Bikes: a couple

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 556 Post(s)
Liked 854 Times in 455 Posts
Originally Posted by Barry2
if you were to purchase a brand new hanger, these custom bends will be required to align it for use on your frame.
Mostly not, unless your frame has an alignment issue.
Schweinhund is offline  
Likes For Schweinhund:
Old 06-06-23, 12:05 PM
  #9  
Barry2 
LRP=HR
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,954

Bikes: Holdsworth 1979 Special, C-dale 1993 MT3000 Tandem & 1996 F700CAD3, Cervelo 2022 R5 & 2018 R3, JustGo Runt, Ridley Oval, Kickr Bike 8-)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 767 Post(s)
Liked 1,034 Times in 597 Posts
Originally Posted by Schweinhund
Mostly not, unless your frame has an alignment issue.
Then my Cervelo R3 has a significant alignment issue.

Barry
Barry2 is offline  
Likes For Barry2:
Old 06-06-23, 12:25 PM
  #10  
Schweinhund
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 1,392

Bikes: a couple

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 556 Post(s)
Liked 854 Times in 455 Posts
Originally Posted by Barry2
Then my Cervelo R3 has a significant alignment issue.

Barry
Then take your frame to someone who has the tools to check alignment and make whatever correction the frame may or may not need.
Schweinhund is offline  
Likes For Schweinhund:
Old 06-06-23, 01:17 PM
  #11  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,266

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 300 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25355 Post(s)
Liked 9,269 Times in 6,455 Posts
Originally Posted by rbrides
What brand & model alignment tool do you guys recommend?
...if you are going to use it a lot (like professionally), this might matter. But they all work about the same, so for home use, get something that's cheaper.
For some reason, this is one of the tools that has spawned all sorts of high end, beautiful tool versions. They don't do a significantly better job than the cheaper ones, if used properly.

Here's one for 25 bucks.
__________________

Last edited by 3alarmer; 06-06-23 at 01:20 PM.
3alarmer is offline  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 06-06-23, 01:55 PM
  #12  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 12,431

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3915 Post(s)
Liked 3,380 Times in 2,270 Posts
Originally Posted by rbrides
What brand & model alignment tool do you guys recommend?
Here are my top choices:
Abbey HAG (I own this personally)
EVT Tru-Arc
Park DAG-3
Shimano RD-TL11
Park DAG-2.2
Wolf Tooth Pack Hanger Alignment Tool (portable)

Yes some of these tools are maybe initially expensive but a precision tool that lasts a long time and does the job well is well worth it. You will not regret spending money on high quality tools you will regret having to buy cheap tools over and over again and potentially doing damage to different parts on your bike.

Make sure you read the instructions well or watch some videos on the tool you end up with. Having this tool and knowing how to use it is helpful but if you don't want to do it your local shop can do it but having the tools and knowledge is pretty awesome.
veganbikes is offline  
Likes For veganbikes:
Old 06-06-23, 03:27 PM
  #13  
maddog34
Senior Member
 
maddog34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,706

Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1185 Post(s)
Liked 593 Times in 430 Posts
If the hanger is bent BADLY, then smacking it with a hammer while off the frame is a way to Temporarily straighten it out and make it usable.. BUT it May Crack and it WILL BE WEAKER...trying to straighten a badly bent hanger ON the Frame MAY ALSO BEND THE FRAME.

note any offset or cutout portions of the hanger and take steps to not mess up those areas.... and i advise only hitting the outside of the hanger,not the inner side. and avoid hitting any Threaded Holes to limit damage to those threads.

THEN ORDER A NEW HANGER. Once they bend, they get WEAK and WILL BEND or BREAK easily after "straightening"
maddog34 is offline  
Likes For maddog34:
Old 06-07-23, 07:19 AM
  #14  
oldukbkr 
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 43

Bikes: '59 Rory O'Brien, 49/72 Holdsworth Trike, '66 Bates BAR, '74 Bob Jackson

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by rbrides
visually, my hanger appear very slightly bent. I am considering removing it and testing with a straight edge but then I wondered;

1. are hangers always manufactured perfectly straight?
2. is ANY amount of bend acceptable?
3. is it acceptable to attempt to straighten it with a hammer on an anvil?
You don't say if there is a problem with the shifting. If the bike shifts correctly through the gears there is no need to mess with the hanger. Otherwise, as others have said, you need the correct tool to align it.
oldukbkr is offline  
Likes For oldukbkr:
Old 06-07-23, 08:07 AM
  #15  
wheelreason
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,137
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 270 Post(s)
Liked 222 Times in 141 Posts
Originally Posted by rbrides
visually, my hanger appear very slightly bent. I am considering removing it and testing with a straight edge but then I wondered;

1. are hangers always manufactured perfectly straight?
2. is ANY amount of bend acceptable?
3. is it acceptable to attempt to straighten it with a hammer on an anvil?
Hammer, yes, yes, always, and please post video.

A HAG is the right tool, but if you don't have one, an old school front wheel will work. You can take the hanger off, and check it on a flat surface, but its the combination of the hanger and the dropout when attached that is important, so make sure it's secured properly on the frame, and then align when mounted. An adjustable wrench will work also. If you aren't very experienced, (and even if you are) having a spare is never a bad idea. You want to determine where you want to end up, and make one adjustment there, you don't want to make a bunch of little adjustments.
wheelreason is offline  
Old 06-07-23, 11:10 AM
  #16  
maddog34
Senior Member
 
maddog34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,706

Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1185 Post(s)
Liked 593 Times in 430 Posts
Originally Posted by oldukbkr
You don't say if there is a problem with the shifting. If the bike shifts correctly through the gears there is no need to mess with the hanger. Otherwise, as others have said, you need the correct tool to align it.
Except the fact that a Bent Der. hanger causes more rapid wear on derailleur rollers, Der. cages, Sprockets, and the chain....
maddog34 is offline  
Old 06-07-23, 11:13 AM
  #17  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,560

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3850 Post(s)
Liked 2,507 Times in 1,545 Posts
Originally Posted by maddog34
Except the fact that a Bent Der. hanger causes more rapid wear on derailleur rollers, Der. cages, Sprockets, and the chain....
It can do that without affecting shifting at all?
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 06-07-23, 11:14 AM
  #18  
maddog34
Senior Member
 
maddog34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,706

Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1185 Post(s)
Liked 593 Times in 430 Posts
Originally Posted by wheelreason
Hammer, yes, yes, always, and please post video.

A HAG is the right tool, but if you don't have one, an old school front wheel will work. You can take the hanger off, and check it on a flat surface, but its the combination of the hanger and the dropout when attached that is important, so make sure it's secured properly on the frame, and then align when mounted. An adjustable wrench will work also. If you aren't very experienced, (and even if you are) having a spare is never a bad idea. You want to determine where you want to end up, and make one adjustment there, you don't want to make a bunch of little adjustments.
Using a DAG (not "HAG") involves a series of "Little adjustments", and checking those adjustments in a vertical alignment with the wheel, then doing the same in a horizontal plane, then re-checking the vertical align, and then re-checking the horizontal align..... and then i do one last verification check of both alignments....

Last edited by maddog34; 06-07-23 at 11:21 AM.
maddog34 is offline  
Old 06-07-23, 11:26 AM
  #19  
maddog34
Senior Member
 
maddog34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,706

Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1185 Post(s)
Liked 593 Times in 430 Posts
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
It can do that without affecting shifting at all?
people have different levels of "affecting"... and will often ignore what you or i may call a "problem."

example: Eliminating sluggish and variable shifts from the rear of a Box store bike is nearly impossible, but millions of them roll around not shifting correctly by our standards... the owners never know the difference until they buy an upgraded der. or a better bike.

another example: a twisted hanger can and does cause advanced wear, but the bike may still "shift" fine...

and another: the hanger was bent, so the owner grabbed the der and bent it back to roughly vertical... it was out in two more planes... still bent, but back in position enough to allow sluggish and variable shifting,which the owner is ok with, but you or i would not be satisfied with.

Last edited by maddog34; 06-07-23 at 11:30 AM.
maddog34 is offline  
Likes For maddog34:
Old 06-07-23, 11:50 AM
  #20  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,560

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3850 Post(s)
Liked 2,507 Times in 1,545 Posts
Originally Posted by maddog34
people have different levels of "affecting"... and will often ignore what you or i may call a "problem."

example: Eliminating sluggish and variable shifts from the rear of a Box store bike is nearly impossible, but millions of them roll around not shifting correctly by our standards... the owners never know the difference until they buy an upgraded der. or a better bike.

another example: a twisted hanger can and does cause advanced wear, but the bike may still "shift" fine...

and another: the hanger was bent, so the owner grabbed the der and bent it back to roughly vertical... it was out in two more planes... still bent, but back in position enough to allow sluggish and variable shifting,which the owner is ok with, but you or i would not be satisfied with.
Sure, standards vary. I was just trying to think of a time when a bent derailleur hanger didn't manifest as some obvious symptom, like: indexing works better/worse in one chainring vs another, shifts are sluggish, RD wants to ding the spokes in the big cog, or just unusual amount of noise. Unless I was setting up a friction-shifting bike, I'd expect one of those alignment gauges to confirm and quantify something I'd already noticed.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498

Last edited by ThermionicScott; 06-07-23 at 11:56 AM.
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 06-07-23, 12:05 PM
  #21  
maddog34
Senior Member
 
maddog34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,706

Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1185 Post(s)
Liked 593 Times in 430 Posts
operative words in your reply .. "I" and "I'd"

look at things from other possible perspectives.
maddog34 is offline  
Old 06-07-23, 12:12 PM
  #22  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,560

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3850 Post(s)
Liked 2,507 Times in 1,545 Posts
Originally Posted by maddog34
operative words in your reply .. "I" and "I'd"

look at things from other possible perspectives.
Obviously we are all an "I". Tangents are fun, but the OP has not offered any evidence that his RD hanger is actually bent. For all we know, his eyes are just fooling him. So I propose getting out of the weeds and discussing symptoms first.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 06-07-23, 12:17 PM
  #23  
maddog34
Senior Member
 
maddog34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,706

Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1185 Post(s)
Liked 593 Times in 430 Posts
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
Obviously we are all an "I". Tangents are fun, but the OP has not offered any evidence that his RD hanger is actually bent. For all we know, his eyes are just fooling him. So I propose getting out of the weeds and discussing symptoms first.
he also has Moved ON.. you should too. you've now advanced to insulting the eyesight and intelligence of the OP.

bye bye.

also see: the thread opening post... "Slight bend"

Last edited by maddog34; 06-07-23 at 12:21 PM.
maddog34 is offline  
Old 06-07-23, 12:28 PM
  #24  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,560

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3850 Post(s)
Liked 2,507 Times in 1,545 Posts
Originally Posted by maddog34
he also has Moved ON.. you should too. you've now advanced to insulting the eyesight and intelligence of the OP.
LOL, what a stretch! Anyone can make mistakes eyeballing these things, no offense was intended. If OP said he was done, I missed it.

Feel free to put me on ignore if it helps keep your blood pressure down.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 06-07-23, 12:39 PM
  #25  
maddog34
Senior Member
 
maddog34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,706

Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1185 Post(s)
Liked 593 Times in 430 Posts
and to anyone saying a Der. Hanger should not be pounded on.. MOST Der. hangers are made in a stamp mill.... under thousands of pounds of POUNDING and SHEARING force
and "checking with a ruler" is a great way to check them for a "slight bend".

next time, you "experts" should advise doing the ruler check on the inner side since it was the downside during STAMP FORGING and is one of the Reference Surfaces during the MACHINING step of the processes involved in making a Der. hanger.

to thermonicscott.. now you're building a strawman. I hope you defeat your imaginary opponent!
i'm going riding now... a fast downhill awaits my attention... the comencal is aired up and ready to fly.
maddog34 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.