indyfabz

Maybe where you live. Not where I live. Pre-pandemic it was often hard to get a bike parking spot amongst the office towers where I worked. We also have several large universities.

Is your life experience really that myopic, or are you just dishing tripe again?

rsbob 

Yes indeed. You know your wheels. Had several sets but are now all sold as I have been getting out of the hobby. These I redid giving them a deeper appearance.

rsbob 

Have a good friend that is a retired CPA who did corporate and some individual taxes. She commented once how some people living in mansions (heavily mortgaged), with leased high-end European cars, with massive credit card debt, with zero real assets were one paycheck away from financial disaster. You just never know.

phedge

I've covered lots of annual shareholder meetings over the years. Did one for a well known mid-size medical devices company, attendance around 500, everyone obviously affluent and influential. Except the front row was occupied by about 30 aging, raging hippies. Tie Dye, shorts, T-shirts and sandals just having a raucous good time. When I pigeon holed my contact about these ne'er do well, smelly beach bums the explanation I got, "those are the original investors who put 5-10k into the original garage start up and are now all worth in excess of 50 million. Underestimate someone based on looks, they're probably gonna take you hard.

wolfchild

I live in a car-centric suburbs of Toronto which is completely different from the downtown areas of large cities. The city of Toronto has a large cycling community but the " bike vs car war" is still there. Here in the suburbs the only cyclists you will find are seasonal recreational riders. Less than 000.1% of people ride for transportation such as commuting, shopping and various errands. The stigma of being a cyclist is real.

sjanzeir

Back when I was in middle school in the 1980s, my dad wanted to take me out of school and place me into what would've been forced labor at his machine shop "to save an extra worker's wages," he said.

indyfabz

Your assertion was not confined to a discrete area. What’s up with you?

Koyote

Many years ago now, some economists ran a pretty thorough study on new car price negotiations. They found that buyers who were better dressed and more educated usually got LOWER prices, even when using the same negotiating strategies. The theory is that they appear more knowledgeable and savvy, and so the salespeople just anticipate a lower end price and hence get there faster.

Shortly after that study came out, I tried acting on it. I was curious to see whether it actually worked. I knew which car I wanted, right down to the color and trim package. I put on a jacket and tie, marched into the dealership, introduced myself as "Doctor Koyote," (I am actually a Dr), told them what I wanted and what I'd pay (straight cash sale, no financing), and that I would not negotiate...It was a one-time, take-it-or-leave-it offer. They quickly said yes and sold me the car for $400 over their cost (including the dealer rebate that I'd found online.) I've bought several cars since, but I hate wearing ties and it's lame to call yourself "Doctor," so I've probably been paying too much.

Koyote

Hopefully Toronto has a support group for you.

indyfabz

Pfft. It’s nothing compared to his stigma ‘round here.

rsbob 

Point well taken. However from past experience, when I went into a Euro-car dealership dressed in my work suit to buy a part, sales people would jump up until I told them no need. If I needed a part for a car and came in wearing my dirty jeans and T-shirt, not a creature would stir. Just my experience with two dealers. May have been them.

I know at least four women whom were not given the time of day at dealerships (my wife being one of them) and one heard, “Why don’t you come back with your husband”. She was single. Many more people are buying cars online - part convenience - part don’t want to hear, “Are you willing to make a deal today?”<-Honda dealer circa 1980.

You probably worked at a good store with far more integrity. Read a book some time ago on car dealerships and flooring costs, inventory turnover, sales goals and incentives and the pressure involved. Don’t recall the author, but a former sales manager from a domestic new car dealer. Have met some very classy people at dealerships and some not so much, just like people everywhere. Luck of the draw.

wolfchild

I have more than enough motivation to continue cycling and doing what I love doing, don't need any peptalk or support.

Germany_chris

To be honest I still think that way but recently I had to spend 30k to get my Alltrack

skidder

I worked at a Chevy dealership in South Orange County California located between the upper middle class/upper class areas of South Orange County and the middle class areas of central Orange County. We had quite a diverse group of customers coming in there but I treated everyone as an 'A' lister. A rich person walking around in this region in cargo shorts, t-shirt (or polo) and running shoes would not be odd. One thing the dealership DID do right was not sell to sub-prime customers (customers with really bad credit). Those folks would get stuck with hi-interest loans from an independent finance company and invariably default on them, which the dealership had to take some responsibilty for.

Before the car sales gig I also worked selling/technical support for industrial fluids in the same geographic area. Similar situation as the car customers, rich folks running the companies would dress very casually. I had one customer who I'd never visit before 10AM; he was an avid surfer and was in the water in the early AM. Really casual dresser with long hair and a beard, but sharp as can be when talking machining/metalworking/metal finishing.

Polaris OBark

I had a similar experience, but I did it in a T-shirt and shorts. I think a lot of these guys hate haggling as much as we do, and their time is worth quite a bit (they could then sell two cars in the time I might take to haggle on one).

PS: Their cost is always inflated.

indyfabz

I have only bought two cars in the nearly 58 years I have been on this planet. The second one I bought in 2016. Got my Subaru for 2% below dealer invoice thanks to a discount offered by Subaru to employees of our company. No haggling required. Yiu walk into the dealership, show 'em the letter and you are done. I also got 0% financing for 4 years even though I had been prepared to pay cash.

drlogik 

Many years ago, as I was walking out of Home Depot, I saw an "older" gentleman getting out of his old Ford Ranger pickup with a bunch of stickers on it. He was wearing an old beat up T-shirt and paint-stained khaki pants. As I got closer I recognized the man. He was the newly (at the time) "Ex-CEO" of Bank of America, worth 10's of millions of dollars. Yes, it was him, and I went up and said hello.

The moral of the story? A shiny BMW, a fancy Ducati motorcycle, fancy designer clothes or an expensive bicycle are not always indicative of wealth. Sometimes it's an old Ford Ranger, a beat up T-shirt and painter's pants that represents wealth. In other words, don't take the fancy glitter for a wealthy person. I've known many people of the years, with all of the fancy trappings, and were in-debt and leveraged up to their eyeballs and living paycheck to paycheck.

alcjphil

I see that you live in Toronto. The Montreal experience is totally different. I was a Montreal bicycle commuter here for over 25 years and never was treated that way even though my commuting days ended when I retired 16 years ago

alcjphil

I have heard that Warren Buffet also drives an old car

Koyote

Yeah. I suspect the key is to bring your checkbook and make clear that you’re not interested in haggling.


I had researched it pretty exhaustively, but yeah — there are likely usually factors only known to the dealer — like their own financing cost of inventory.

I suspect that many negotiations fall through because customers don’t want to allow the dealer to make any profit, which is unreasonable.

Polaris OBark

It was something I read in Edmond's and/or Consumer Reports.

Often they make more on the loans than the car sale itself.

Erzulis Boat 

They are just messing around. We had a bunch of volunteers cleaning up a local MUP, and I asked one of them if they got a DUI to be stuck on such a crew. They started to say something, but I just rode off quickly. It's all part of the fun.

NomarsGirl

i think i would recognize Indy’s bike of i saw it somewhere.

Broctoon

Wealth is certainly relative.

I see what others around me have: big, new-ish homes with sprawling, beautifully landscaped yards. New cars. Bikes with carbon fiber frames and wheels, and electronic shifting. Boats, motorcycles, snowmobiles, and ATVs. Yearly family vacations to Hawaii, the Carribean, or Europe. And many other luxuries. I sometimes wish I had worked harder to earn more money and especially wish I had managed my finances more wisely, so I could have some of these things now.

...But then I stop and remind myself that I am probably better off than 80% of the world's current population, and much better than 98% of everyone throughout history. I do a quick inventory of what I have:

- A safe, comfortable home of ~2000 square feet, with three bedrooms, two baths, a two-car garage, central heating and AC, modern kitchen appliances, etc. (The indoor plumbing alone is better than what billions of people have lived with)

- Food everywhere. Fridge is full of food. So is a freezer in the garage. Pantry is full to overflowing. Kitchen cabinets are all full, and additional stuff is stacked on shelves in the basement. When we don't feel like preparing any of this food, we can go out to eat an any of hundreds of restaurants. No one in my family has ever been hungry for longer than a few hours (which is to say, never experienced true hunger)

- A closet full of good clothes and shoes. And additional closets for my wife's and each of my kids' clothes

- A beautiful 2019 Hyundai Sonata that gets me and my family everywhere we want to go safely, reliably, and comfortably

- Several other cars. More of them than I can drive, in fact. They have actually become a liability, as I must maintain, register, and insure them.

- A whole fleet of nice bicycles (currently about eight). Also lots of good accessories, tools, and bike clothing/gear.

- Health insurance. In spite of the $1200 per month that I pay for my portion of the premiums, I am blessed to have this coverage, because anyone in my family can go to a doctor for help with problems large or small, and the cost at that time is minimal.

- Ability to purchase pretty much any tool, toy, entertainment gadget, or novelty item I desire (within reason)

- Two healthy pet dogs, and the means to feed, groom, and care for them better than billions of people can care for their children

- An 85" TV that will play practically anything I demand from a half dozen different subscription-based content providers. Slightly smaller TVs in rooms throughout the house, for convenient viewing everywhere

- Countless stockpiles of totally unnecessary consumer goods: sporting goods, guns, audio equipment, craft and hobby supplies, cameras, the list goes on and on...

If someone were to notice something I own and remark that I must be rich, I'd probably reply that I'm doing okay, but I'm certainly not rich relative to my neighbors and coworkers, or even relative to the median household in 21st century U.S.A. However, relative to the vast majority of mankind, I enjoy dazzling, fantastic, gluttonous wealth. At my worst of times, I've had a lifestyle that would be the envy of all but the highest levels of nobility throughout human history. In other words, I truly live like a king, as do most of the people around me.

Gyro

I still have the same car I bought in 1971.