BFisher

I'd seriously consider driving down there and snagging it if it was larger.

clubman 

It's still got the slack angles of the pre-war bikes. I always liked the oval cut-outs on the lugs while the paint and decals are impeccable. I'd have a real hard time passing up on that one if I hadn't taken a blood-oath with my wife. (I buy, I bleed)

oldspokes

Spotted these in that same general area:


Green Raleigh Sports
https://cnj.craigslist.org/bik/d/law...236113787.html

Ladies Sports
https://cnj.craigslist.org/bik/d/law...236128443.html

Clean looking Hercules
https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/...238702588.html

Raleigh in red
https://lancaster.craigslist.org/bik...234781366.html

Rough Hercules
https://baltimore.craigslist.org/bik...237919837.html

Raleigh Superbe
https://cnj.craigslist.org/bik/d/law...249771055.html

The Hercules on Philly CL is likely the cleanest looking of all of these with the Superbe at the end of the list looking pretty decent too.

markk900

oldspokes I think the seller of the Superbe cut and pasted the ad text from somewhere else.....the description says the bike is Green (photos are clearly Root Beer), the presence of a rack (none in the photos), dynohub, etc.

nlerner

It's also a Sports, not a Superbe! That's all pretty weird.

cudak888 

Reads like a robot ad. Caveat emptor.

-Kurt

jackbombay

Do it! I built up a 5 speed Sturmey S5 IGH Super Course for a friend, the bike absolutely cooks!

Beautiful!!!

oldspokes

I don't think that's a robot ad, the two green bikes and that brown bike are the same seller. He's got a handful of other ads up.
Its more like a case of someone posting his ads for him. Something to the effect of "Honey, post this on CL" and they just used
the same ad text from the last bike. Look at the ad text for the brown bike, it matched the ad for the green bike...

Someone must have emailed because I see the ad for the green bike now reads Superbe not Sports, but the brown bike still has the wrong text.

Neither of those bikes look all that clean if you blow up the pics, they're not bad, but they're not detailed and gone over like I'd go over one
for myself. The rims show a good bit of brake wear, the paint shows signs of rust here and there and lots of paint wear and loss all over, escpecially on the green bike.

The red bike in PA is pretty rough but an older model, I see a bike with a bobbed rear fender, lots of paint issues, maybe even a rattle can paint job around the decals, its hard to tell by the pics.
The black Hercules looks almost un-ridden, judging by the decals its likely around 1970-1972 or so. Blowing up the pics in the ad I see some stitching missing on the edge of the saddle and maybe a ding in the chain guard. The chrome looks almost new, the paint shines and looks original.
The Hercules with the pointed chain guard in MD is likely just parts unless someone wants a major restoration job. The rims are rusty, the paint is faded, there's rust on everything all over it. Its still probably worth the $90 if the rims run fairly true, depending on how much brake wear they have. There's likely lots of areas where there's only rust and no paint, it looks like it lived outside for the last 60 years or so.

I'd always rather start with something super clean, the last thing I want to deal with is having to repaint a bike. Clean original tops all else in my book. Bolt on parts can be replaced but a rough paint job makes anything you do to it that much less impressive short of a complete repaint with all new decals.
From past experience, matching the old Raleigh paint is tough, its hard to get the same level of gloss to make it look right. Its too easy to make it look too good and therefore wrong. Not to mention modern paint is likely far different than what they used 50+ years ago.
If that Hercules was a size bigger, I'd likely try to make a deal for it but I need 24" or larger.
For that reason, l Iike the idea of using a Super Course to build my own, but a few things come to mind. First off is which rims to use, I'd want something fairly wide, and something vintage looking. Original Weinmann Concave rims wouldn't look right to me. I'd want something wide, double wall, and it likely would have to come in 32/40h if I were to use an S5 hub. I'd also want to find a suitable pair of aluminum All rounder or North road bars and then a set of light fenders, something other than the just robbing a set from a Sprite 27. Maybe a set from a 28" Tourist would work? Fitting them in the Super Course fork may be an issue too. I actually think I may have a 1977 Super course frame and fork here somewhere. It would be the only year with plain dropouts that came with 700c wheels.

BFisher

@IsleRide I also encourage you to go IGH on a Super Course. I love mine.

markk900

BFisher What a lovely photo (and the bike's not bad either!)

BFisher

Thanks! Occasionally I somehow manage to take a decent picture.

2fat2fly

Regardless of the ads being mixed up on the green and brown bikes, the only one in that list that looks like anything I'd want to own is the Hercules on Philadelphia CL, however its not my size.

I'm still debating whether or not I want to mess with the Sprite since it needs basically a full rebuild with new rear spokes. The Super Course idea has me thinking a bit but it sounds like an expensive undertaking considering it would mean building a set of wheels, finding fenders, handlebars, a 3 spd hub, and a saddle, not to mention hunting down a suitable older Super Course in my size. There was a 25 1/2" SC bare frame on CL a while back for $100, but the cost of building the wheels and finding the other parts would put it out of my budget these days. I figure $250 tops, for a bike in presentable and rideable shape. I really don't care to deal with rust or bad paint, or wheels that need rebuilding or replacing. The way I see it is that if I'm going to spend the money, it has to fit me and it might as well be what I want, which is a 26" Sports style model like I had years ago. If the Sprite was free or really cheap, I might take it and play around with making it into something I can use, otherwise I'll end up with far too much money in a bike I that's really not what I was looking for.

Jawihan

BFisher Lovely bike, Do you have posted details of the build. I have a Super Course frame , I should build up. It needs painting ( some one previously had done a poor job of rattle canning it). I have a lot of the original parts.
Cheers, James

SirMike1983 

Nice color on that frame.

BFisher

Hi, James. I posted this here as I got it together. I had this bike built as a 3x7 with indexed downtube shifting, but decided the setup was redundant and didn't look the way I wanted the bike to look.

I made a trade with @cudak888 (Kurt) for two 3 speed hubs - one modern and one vintage. Ultimately I decided the older AW was the way I wanted to go, so I laced it to the original 27" rim with double butted stainless spokes. I put a newer production trigger shifter on, had the honey Brooks here already, and got a good deal on some SKS longboard fenders from REI. The chainring was a NOS score from ebay - 49 tooth - which is mated to a 22 tooth rear cog, giving me a nice range of about 45, 60, and 80 gear inches if my memory is correct. I have since put a Carradice saddle bag on, but don't have a pic yet.

The bike has been rock solid reliable, and really has a fantastic ride quality. It has been one of my faves this past season. Tires are 27x1 1/4 Continental UltraSports, which are a great tire for their price point. Perfect for these old hookless rims. I run them at around 70psi.

Brian

oldspokes

I've been knocking around the idea of building this up with an AW or S5 hub. I've had it for 20 years or so now, its been hanging in the basement collecting dust. It definitely needs paint and decals. It takes 700c wheels, 27" won't allow fenders. I also haven't figured out which fenders and I need a set of alloy North Road bars for it and a short reach stem. 1 3/8" wide tires would be the limit, the fork and stays are pretty narrow. The big problem may also be finding room to keep another bike. My original plan was to use a modern SA 7 speed IGH but never found a deal on one and I had tried a Shimano Nexus 7 years ago and really didn't like it, mostly due to the weight it added.
The plan for this was to do a full repaint, some new decals, alloy north road bars, Raleigh grips, an SA hub, wide rims and the widest blackwall tires I can fit, metal fenders painted to match. The frame was built for center pull brakes, and I have no intention of removing the rear brake hanger, so a set of original Weinmann CP calipers are the way I'd go with matching brake levers.
Its just never been very high on my to-do list over the years so it just sat with the thought that if I found the right rims and fenders I'd go ahead to start the project.

markk900

oldspokes I laced up an AW and a nice alloy front up to 700C rims and have used them on a couple of bikes I wanted to try as 3-speeds built from frames like yours. Currently they are on a Trek 600 that I did up first with drop bars but have since gone to more upright bars. Not english or I would post a picture here!

oldspokes

A number of years ago I built up a Lotus Classique wth Champion #1 tubing with a pair of Araya A20 rims with a roller brake front hub and Nexus 7 rear hub. I used alloy riser bars and a taller stem with a Selle Royale padded leather saddle. The bike was light, nimble, fast and very comfortable to ride but the frame had a ton of flex being used in the upright position. So much so that I gave up on it and put the bike back to stock and sold it. It was an early Nexus 7 speed hub with a trigger type shifter, the shifter was near impossible to keep in adjustment and the roller brake didn't work well with a big rider. I laced the Nexus hub into a 26" wheel and set up a beach cruiser with it and sold it.

I have some concern that I'll get the same issues with the 25.5" Super Course frame but I was hoping that the straight gauge main triangle only 531 tubing would make for a lot stiffer frame. Another issue would be choosing the right crankset to give me proper gearing to match the AW hub.

I also considered that maybe I'd be better off with a plain steel frame both due to my size and the fact that a lesser frame will likely allow a wider tire.

2fat2fly

My size is something that's kept me away from the higher end frames over the years. As a teen I broke a few chromoly frames, all were 63-64mm size. I did better with a slightly smaller frame in plain steel. I switched to buying mostly 23-24" frames, or 59-60mm. They were stiffer and the smaller size made them a bit lighter, often not much more than the higher end frame in the larger size. Then again, weight was never an issue when your 6ft 3in tall and over 300 lbs. The only Raleigh I broke was a 1978 Professional on which the right chain stay snapped off at the bottom bracket after two seasons of riding. They stood behind it though. I also didn't run the sew-up tires it came with, I swapped in a pair of Weinmann concave rims and a pair of 700x25 tires, something that the dealer did for me before I bought it.
Even then though I had a three speed for going places, a few were English, a few were Schwinn, one was two were German or Austrian, and one older Columbia. I still own both of the Schwinn's but they've been hanging in the attic now for 30 years.
I want something English, I want a three speed, and I prefer it to be black in a 23" frame.

The thought of converting a road bike sounds expensive to me, while it would be lighter and a better long distance ride, I prefer to just find something that's factory. The Sprite 27 was a thought but it will simply cost too much in the end vs. just paying a bit more for a clean bike to start with. I don't need a big project. I don't mind doing a tear down, clean, and re-lube, but the thought of needing to put $100 into something on top of whatever it cost is not the right answer.

One thing that comes to mind if converting a road bike like a Super Course is what to do for a single speed crankset as well as a chain guard and fenders. It seems counter productive to just use steel fenders, and the difference in bottom bracket widths may make using a cottered Raleigh Sports crankset tough to do. Most road chain rings are 52 tooth, that combined with a common 18t rear on an AW will make it hard to pedal and deprive it of the intended low range.

At least on a Sprite, the BB shell is the same width and a common Sports front crankset can be used, along with the Sports hockey stick chain guard. The rear sprocket though should still be swapped for a larger one due to the larger diameter of the 27" wheels but I'm not sure by how much. The largest sprocket I've ever seen on an AW hub is 22t, and I don't think that was an original cog.
I'm also not sure how much larger a 27x1 3/8" tire is over the original 1 1/4" tire either. Looking at pics, on bikes with fenders, it looks like the diameter increase can be substantial with some tires.

I really like that Hercules listed above, the one listed on Philly CL but its too small. If that were a 23" frame, I'd have likely already made it mine. Its pretty sharp looking in the ad pics. The rest are run of the mill bikes at best judging by their pics.

IsleRide

Even though I'm working on two derailleur bikes right now I accept the challenge to try and finally do something with this. A friend gave it to me 20 years ago and I'll never sell it but this is the condition I got it in with the finish sanded off. The chrome is good. There are no dents. I have a really nice AW hub with the longer axle. Just need some HMW494 axle washers. Can't see a high end paint restoration (where is Cycle Art when you need them?) but I'm also not sure powder coat will look right on this. For now maybe the idea would be all black with gold high-lighting and build a Pashley-like path racer. Definitely will be three speed though.

BTW standard threaded bottom bracket, Raleigh 26tpi fork.

markk900

IsleRide Wow - what a beauty. Can you post some more pictures?

dirtman

Can anyone tell me what an old 531 road frame like that would be worth?
I'll ask here because I don't think that most over in the What's it worth area have the same appreciation for English bikes.

I've often thought that a simple three speed conversion on an old Super Course or similar would be the ideal all around ride.
There's a guy down the road from me with a 23" frame Dawes Galaxy and a bare Raleigh 531 frame both mid to late 70's era.
He told me $250 for the whole Dawes, or $100 for the bare Raleigh frame, which looks about like the orange/red one pictured above.
Both are pre-forged dropouts, so there's no derailleur hanger to cut off. The Dawes is well used but rideable with a set of tires.
The big question is whether a frame like that would take wide enough tires to look right with fenders and all the trimmings a Super Tourer would have had. I trash picked a Nexus 8 speed that's currently in a 26" cruiser wheel but its way wider than an AW, and I absolutely could not picture using a cheap plastic twist grip shifter like was on that cruiser.

I'm leaning toward the Raleigh but somehow feel I'd be better off with a 27" wheel frame. I really like the idea of a Sprite 3 speed if it can be done up to look truly British and not just like another Schwinn Suburban copy.

barnfind

I owned a Dawes Galaxy back in the day, it was one of my favorite bikes over the years.
I'm not sure I'd take one and turn it into a three speed if it were a complete working bike as is.
Price wise, I'd think that any decent frame set has got to be worth $100, I've gotten that much for
old Schwinn Varsity frame sets. At one point I had over 200 frame sets from one clean out, not many sold
for less than $100.
23" and 25" are also the two most popular sizes so that alone will ad some value. Its the small sizes that sit listed
for months. Finding one local, and not having to pay for shipping to get it is worth something too.
From what I've seen the Nexus hubs are pretty decent but I agree, the shifters all seem to be less than ideal.
The few I've had over the years all seemed overly complicated and hard to keep adjusted.
A plain old Sturmey Archer AW felt so much better to me.

Salubrious

I think most of the 3-speeded bikes I've seen have been Super Courses. Its Brit, accepts 27" and the AW hub, and most of all isn't that hard to find or expensive. $100-$300 depending on condition and your luck.

2fat2fly

As neat as the idea of a three speed road bike sounds, I don't think it would fit my needs as well as a stock Sports type bike.
Many of the places I ride have lengths of dirt trails, some are hard packed dirt, some sort of look like fine mulch over sand.
A road bike doesn't go through that well. What I really need is a Sports type bike with the widest tire made.
I thought about converting a mountain bike but don't like the feel of that type of bike. ( I might consider an earlier mountain bike as they tended to have more relaxed angles than the bikes that came after around the mid 80's or so.). The relaxed angles of the Sports or any of the clones fits me better. I don't ride nearly as much as I used to, or likely should but I do so both to get some exercise and to get around the immediate area. Fenders are a must, a low enough gear to pull a few minor hills, the ability to mount a basket and rear rack, and tires wider than most. I did buy a set of Michelin World Tour tires off CL for another bike, I like how they look, they're nearly as wide as most middle weight tires mounted on Schwinn S5 rims, so I'd expect about the same look on a Raleigh with Westrick rims.
The wider tires also handle my size and weight better. They seem less likely to pinch flat over curbs and potholes.