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Cycling Specific Signs - Cheers and Jeers

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Cycling Specific Signs - Cheers and Jeers

Old 09-15-20, 11:20 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Maybe the confused "dealership riders" end up on the private lot because of insufficient, inadequate or confusing signs placed (or not placed at all) by the local authorities directing the bicyclists to the official detour.
The detour signs aren't bad, but any detour will creates confusion for some.
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Old 09-15-20, 11:35 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
My guess is that their insurer insists on some very conspicuous signage. Through traffic of any kind through what is essentially a parking lot is an invitation to lots of low speed collisions. A disproportionate number of fender benders occur in parking lots and at gas stations because there's no clear rules of who goes where when. Adding bicycles into the mix just makes this situation worse for the lot owner. And to add to that there's a bunch of people driving vehicles they're not familiar with in the same lot. I doubt this sign was aimed at people who were actually riding to/from the dealership, and I seriously doubt they'd say anything to you if you did..
At the end of the day, your assumptions are equal to my assumptions of the dealership's intent with this signage.

Reference the Strava images with people biking through a gas station's lot ... like you point out, there's a lot more danger in a gas station lot, more moving vehicles versus a dealership with most cars sitting parked. But there's no signage there.

My suggestion is that if they want to limit traffic to customers only, it's simply a sign that reads "local traffic only" - that is so common with other close road situations, that's what makes this 'no bikes' signage stand out to me. Just my perspective. I really don't care, there is a marked detour and in we'll get our bike route back when the commuter rail is complete ... then the signs go away. And it will have no effect on my car buying choices since I have no interest in buying a car.
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Old 09-15-20, 11:59 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
At the end of the day, your assumptions are equal to my assumptions of the dealership's intent with this signage.

Reference the Strava images with people biking through a gas station's lot ... like you point out, there's a lot more danger in a gas station lot, more moving vehicles versus a dealership with most cars sitting parked. But there's no signage there.

My suggestion is that if they want to limit traffic to customers only, it's simply a sign that reads "local traffic only" - that is so common with other close road situations, that's what makes this 'no bikes' signage stand out to me. Just my perspective. I really don't care, there is a marked detour and in we'll get our bike route back when the commuter rail is complete ... then the signs go away. And it will have no effect on my car buying choices since I have no interest in buying a car.
Actually, I have a pretty well-educated guess there, gas stations notwithstanding. That's a parking lot full of inventory, and if it's a busy car lot, that's a lot of local traffic moving about the lot. Throw in some bicyclists, and it's making a lot more likely that someone is going to have to swerve into that brand new Accord. Gas stations are comparatively small so not so much room for a sign, also they're generally very low margin operations, so they might not be able to afford one.

Why would they want a sign that said "local traffic only"? I assume it's bike riders and not car drivers that are using this as a de facto detour and, like it or not, I don't think most riders think of themselves as traffic. If their problem really is a bunch of trespassing cyclists diverted into the lot, are we really so easily offended that they would put up a sign specifically addressing the problem?
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Old 09-15-20, 12:12 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Actually, I have a pretty well-educated guess there, gas stations notwithstanding. That's a parking lot full of inventory, and if it's a busy car lot, that's a lot of local traffic moving about the lot. Throw in some bicyclists, and it's making a lot more likely that someone is going to have to swerve into that brand new Accord. Gas stations are comparatively small so not so much room for a sign, also they're generally very low margin operations, so they might not be able to afford one.

Why would they want a sign that said "local traffic only"? I assume it's bike riders and not car drivers that are using this as a de facto detour and, like it or not, I don't think most riders think of themselves as traffic. If their problem really is a bunch of trespassing cyclists diverted into the lot, are we really so easily offended that they would put up a sign specifically addressing the problem?
Honestly, you have better knowledge of a business and trail blocks from my house ... cool story.

Moving along ...
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Old 09-15-20, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
Honestly, you have better knowledge of a business and trail blocks from my house ... cool story.

Moving along ...
Didn't claim that, but I do know quite a bit about civil liability and can recognize a classic CYA move when I see it. My knowledge about the trail is irrelevant, I didn't say anything about it. Anything special about that car lot that I got wrong?

Move along, it's your dumb example.
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Old 10-07-20, 12:47 PM
  #81  
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Do "signs" painted on the ground count...?
Somewhere in Greece!
I am proud of my Greek heritage, but stuff like this just makes me shake my head...
Back there in the "old country" there's a word for those responsible for the likes of this...Malaka!

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Old 10-07-20, 01:20 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by AndrewJB
Do "signs" painted on the ground count...?
Somewhere in Greece!
I am proud of my Greek heritage, but stuff like this just makes me shake my head...
Back there in the "old country" there's a word for those responsible for the likes of this...Malaka!

That's not even a good sidewalk! The leaning trees really put it over the top.
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Old 10-07-20, 02:54 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by AndrewJB
Do "signs" painted on the ground count...?
Somewhere in Greece!
I am proud of my Greek heritage, but stuff like this just makes me shake my head...
Back there in the "old country" there's a word for those responsible for the likes of this...Malaka!

A popular mod for cheap road bikes...



With a little more effort, one can also turn the bars around, but then one doesn't get the benefit of a shortened reach.
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Old 10-07-20, 09:09 PM
  #84  
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Beware of the Sign




Last edited by detroitjim; 10-07-20 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 04-06-22, 07:19 AM
  #85  
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A revisited sign ... somebody wrote exactly what I was thinking.

For reference, up the trail (to the right of this picture) is the far behind schedule and significantly over budget Green Line extension project in Minneapolis. This stupid sign has been here for 3 years, legally requiring people to walk bikes on a trail that no different than the trails throughout the rest of the metro ... in fact, this trail is wider that many other places around town, and there are places much more difficult to navigate without signs. And I have seen exactly zero people walking their bikes here [/rant]

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Old 06-01-23, 07:00 AM
  #86  
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This one is a classic that never fails to get me to laugh (& the stupid inequity of this sign, there's a regular group ride for folks using hand-bikes & adaptive bikes that uses this route)

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Old 06-01-23, 03:49 PM
  #87  
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Don't take it personally or worry about it. This is a standard CYA, used by agencies so they won't be sued if someone falls over the bump.
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Old 06-02-23, 08:24 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
Don't take it personally or worry about it. This is a standard CYA, used by agencies so they won't be sued if someone falls over the bump.
IMHO there's issues with inequitably, both for folks using this route that can not dismount and walk; but also, you every see any signs like this on roads?

I guess everyone riding a bike is very fragile, clumsy, and litigious ... and simple signs will take care of all of this.
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Old 06-02-23, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
IMHO there's issues with inequitably, both for folks using this route that can not dismount and walk; but also, you every see any signs like this on roads?

I guess everyone riding a bike is very fragile, clumsy, and litigious ... and simple signs will take care of all of this.
No, but they assume that one out of the many will be.
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Old 06-02-23, 10:13 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Iride01
No, but they assume that one out of the many will be.
If only we designed roads with this same attitude ... one person driving will be dumb, distracted, tired, drunk; therefore, the roads must be designed for that one person.
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Old 06-02-23, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
If only we designed roads with this same attitude ... one person driving will be dumb, distracted, tired, drunk; therefore, the roads must be designed for that one person.
Now you are talking about something else.

This has nothing to do with the sign and the discussion you and others made about it.
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Old 06-02-23, 10:28 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Now you are talking about something else.

This has nothing to do with the sign and the discussion you and others made about it.
I'm talking about equity, but whatever.

I laughed at the misguided bureaucracy that put that sign there, and enjoyed rolling over the construction bridge. I hope it's still there for my ride later today, it's kinda fun.
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Old 06-02-23, 10:33 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
IMHO there's issues with inequitably, both for folks using this route that can not dismount and walk; but also, you every see any signs like this on roads?

I guess everyone riding a bike is very fragile, clumsy, and litigious ... and simple signs will take care of all of this.
Yes. Signs on roads warning motorists about bumps or dips in the road and better yet, low flying airplanes.
Take a chill pill.
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Old 06-02-23, 11:07 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Yes. Signs on roads warning motorists about bumps or dips in the road and better yet, low flying airplanes.
Take a chill pill.
right ... ok ... whatever ...

You understand that "dip" sign on the road is yellow with black text (AKA a warning, but no legally required action); a white sign with black text is legally required (ref speed limit signs). Meaning the sign I posted is legally required for all trail users. But I expect you know this.
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Old 06-02-23, 11:21 AM
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every now & then I see the "legal" looking signs in places I suspect might not be authorized for use... meaning, someone had a sign made up & slapped it where it's at to annoy peds.

If I were to support the state/fed to use technology, it would be to put QR codes on all legally issued signs that have a location designation for anyone to have the ability to scan it & check it for legitimacy.
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Old 06-02-23, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
This one is a classic that never fails to get me to laugh (& the stupid inequity of this sign, there's a regular group ride for folks using hand-bikes & adaptive bikes that uses this route)
These are not really bicycles.
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Old 06-02-23, 12:14 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
right ... ok ... whatever ...

You understand that "dip" sign on the road is yellow with black text (AKA a warning, but no legally required action); a white sign with black text is legally required (ref speed limit signs). Meaning the sign I posted is legally required for all trail users. But I expect you know this.
Right, and I expect you to continue to take this "inequity" personally and worry about a near zero chance of enforcement of this allegedly legal requirement.
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Old 06-02-23, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
IMHO there's issues with inequitably, both for folks using this route that can not dismount and walk; but also, you every see any signs like this on roads?

I guess everyone riding a bike is very fragile, clumsy, and litigious ... and simple signs will take care of all of this.
It seems that you don't have enough problems in your life and therefore can be upset about something as trivial as this.

They apparently had to build the temporary hump for one reason or another. They tried to accommodate wheeled users with ramps vs. steps. At the same time they opted to "warn" of the minor added hazard by saying dismount. Of course most probably wouldn't and some can't, but at least this might protect the parties from a "failure to warn" lawsuit, should someone fall there.

IMO all is good, and rather than whine, I'd be thankful that they went for ramps vs. steps.
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Old 06-02-23, 04:43 PM
  #99  
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The problem with regulatory signs directing bicyclists to dismount and walk at specific locations, especially width-constrained ones, is that once dismounted the bicycle/pedestrian combination is now nearly twice the width of a non-bike-walking pedestrian or riding cyclist - which reduces the effective usable space even more than if people were to continue to ride.

An agency could argue "if everyone complies with the sign, then it won't matter, because at pedestrian speeds, crash risk is minimal." This could open them up to a response of "Did you monitor the site for compliance, and upon assessing compliance rates, take any action?"

Unwritten Rule #2 of Traffic Engineering: The presence or installation of a traffic control device does NOT necessarily mean the device will be effective or improve safety.
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Old 06-02-23, 05:07 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
IMO all is good, and rather than whine, I'd be thankful that they went for ramps vs. steps.
I just learned that advocating for others is whining, thanks!

FWIW - I posted a bike specific sign in a thread on that topic with my opinion (& it is a dumb sign). But I'm so happy I gave you something that allowed you some time on your high horse 👍
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