genejockey 

indyfabz

Damn! How did I mess up that one? I am usually a particular stickler for that distinction.

genejockey 

Happy to be able to stickle for you. I love a good stickling.

MinnMan

From the sounds of it, the OP is not a highly experienced bike shopper. In such cases, I would advise against buying a direct-to-consumer brand (CANYON).

Not all LBSs are perfect, but people who don't really know what they want should deal with a brick and mortar outfit

If there is more than one LBS in the OPs area, so much the better - comparison shop both the bikes and the different LBS experiences..

MinnMan

Get over it, already.

datlas 

Family forum!

Reported.

jans

I am not an experienced shopper, have only bought 2 bikes in the past 15 years and was mostly based on what deals I could get. Now I’m in a different situation and want to do more research and make a more educated decision. I appreciate the feedback.

bruce19

I can't and have never owned a Trek. Never will.

Branko D

Meh. At least where I am, the odds that they have a model you are interested in stock in a size which isn't 56 are next to zero. The last bike I bought at a LBS I ordered sight unseen and except for the initial setup (which is really easy on a Canyon) there's nothing they really did. So, meh. If you have a LBS which has different sized bikes in store in stock then maybe that's worth something. If they have only one size to try or you have to order from a catalogue that's really no better than direct to consumer. Except for advice, but frankly you can find a whole lot of that online, do your research, look at the geometry charts especially if you've ridden something which fits (there's that website geometrygeeks.bike or something, great for comparisons) and there's no advice like trying for yourself... if you know someone who rides the model you are looking at, that'd be great.

Once you know what you want and what geometry fits, you can basically order bikes without seeing them and they will fit perfectly.

MinnMan

Are you talking about the current situation, post-pandemic with horrible supply chain issues? If so, then yeah, it's a problem, but Canyon has the same problem.
If you're talking about normlly, many bike shops will have an array of makes, models and sizes, unless you happen to be unusually tall or short.

IMHO, telling a newby to order from Canyon is very bad advice. The OP clearly doesn't know what he wants and doesn't know his geometry well. So just because Canyon might be the right decision for you (or for me - I bought from them quite happily) has nothing to do with whether it's what the OP should do.

Many people on here are more interested in writing about their own experience than in helping the OP.

PeteHski

How about going to see an independent bike fitter and then ordering a Canyon or whatever other bike? My own experience of bike shop fit "advice" is so piss poor I wouldn't even bother going down that route for sizing.
In reality unless the OP is of very odd proportions, Canyon's simple fit calculator will put him on the right size and if not he would have 30 days to exchange it for a different size.

genejockey 

My experience with Canyon was very happy and quite successful, but ONLY because I already had 3 road bikes that all fit very well and which have all their contact points within 1/2 cm of identical. I measured them carefully and I could determine I wanted the Large instead of the Medium Canyon suggested.

So, unless you already have a road bike fit that's worked for you for thousands of miles, you shouldn't buy a bike you can't ride first, and which you can't have at least the 10 Minute Bike Shop Fit done before you take it home.

PeteHski

Agreed, but you can ride your Canyon for a whole 30 days, which trumps any 10 minute bike shop fit and roll around the block. I remember when bike shops had demo bikes you could borrow for the weekend, which was great. But this seems to be largely a thing of the past now. Obviously the pandemic has made things worse, but even before that it was getting hard to arrange meaningful demos.

genejockey 

Canyon gives you NO bike fit, so that 30 days may not be all that great. When I got my Endurace, I set up the saddle height and setback carefully and set up the stem with the full set of spacers. The first 10 mile ride was VERY disappointing. My arse hurt and my hands kept going numb. I happened to have a spare saddle of the kind I'd found (20 years ago) is very comfortable for me, so I put that on. I moved 2.5 cm of spacers from below the stem to above it, which put it at the same height of my other bikes. Just those two things, and the bike is now comfortable for up to 66 miles (longest ride I've done on it).

I could do that because 1) I had a pro bike fit that I've scrupulously copied onto other bikes, so I could set the Canyon up the same way, and 2) I am comfortable working on the bike myself, making adjustments, and dialing in the fit. I can do that stuff myself. Not everyone can, nor is everyone comfortable doing so. The OP doesn't have a road bike currently, let alone one that fits perfectly to use as a model for setting up the new bike.

Sy Reene

A bike fit is a dubious proposition for someone who hasn't already settled into a fit from previously riding significant distances. If you haven't ridden much, everybody's ass, nech and hands might ache after a longer ride. Also, different bike types are optimized for different fits.. eg. you wouldn't want to set up your Domane with exactly same contact point distances as your Emonda -- otherwise what would be the point of having 2 different styles of bike?

Additionally, fitting sounds good, but gone are the days where it would be a given that it's not an expensive proposition if you actually would be served better by a stem, seatpost, crankarms, or handlebar change from what's given to you stock on the bike that's being sold to you. I'd be wary of conflict of interest with the fitter being the guy also selling you the aftermarket components, but I can be cynical that way.

Trakhak

Just visited the Canyon website for the first time and found it somewhat difficult to navigate. At least, it took me quite a number of tries to find a geometry table for the bike I was pretending to be interested in.

After decades of riding bikes and figuring out how to determine whether a given frame is right for me, I've found that all I need to know about any road racing geometry frame are the head tube length and the wheelbase. Finally found the geometry table after several dead-end searches and confirmed that the site's initial recommendation (based on my inputting my height and inseam) of the XS frame is correct, but they don't make it easy to find the geometry details.

But once I'd found the page with the heading "Geometry Table" that corresponded to the bike I was looking at, I did a search of the site and got this:

Sorry, no results found for “Geometry Table”

Iride01 

While I'm not a fan of Canyon, I don't have any trouble finding the geometry specs. I just went to a specific model of bike and then scrolled down the page. Of course like many "modern" sites, they seem to be made for someone using only their fingers on a touch screen. So you have to scroll down quite a few times to get to it. There is also a direct link to it near the top of the page, but a site message was obscuring the bar it was contained in. Also the bar goes in and out of view depending on what you are doing at the moment with your pointer.

https://www.canyon.com/en-us/outlet-...nfarbe=BK%2FGY

Perhaps some models they don't have specs for. Maybe the low end models.

Sardines

I assume you've check out the geometry of both and how you fit them. I just helped a buddy put together his Ult CFR Di2. First of all, WTH is that champagne gold color?!? Hahah
But really, it's a great bike all around and very well made. What stood out to me is the gearing choice, with a convention 52/36 chain up front and 11-30 at the rear stock. So it's more designed for top end. We did change the rear cassette to a 11-34 to give him more climbing choice.
I've also tried another buddy's Trek Emonda SLR, which also ran SRAM Red Etap AXS, but the range is a lot more even though it's heavier than the Canyon. So don't just look at the components but also gearing etc to see if it fits your style of riding.

PeteHski

Well I did suggest the idea of a pre-new bike fit which most pro fitters offer. I'm not sure there is much value in a "free" shop fit personally.

genejockey 

Yeah. Depends entirely on the shop! Also how long a test ride they let you take AND where they're located.

When I bought my first real road bike 27 years ago, the shop where I got it was located in a really hilly area of San Francisco, and I was really out of practice with downtube shifters. I went a block, I think, wearing street clothes. I ended up having to figure out the bike fit myself, and then later I went in for more of a pro fit.

Two years and a couple thousand miles later, I bought a bike from a shop in the flat part of Palo Alto, and they encouraged me to take the bike for a nice long spin. I wore bike shorts for the ride, so I could get into position. They're near some of the nicest roads, with some decent hills, so I could warm up on the flats and then put the bike through some ups and downs and really get a feel for it. Before the ride, they spent 5-10 minutes setting the saddle height and setback. That "10 minute shop fit" was good enough for rides up to 50 miles, with no major climbing. I got a pro fit a few months later and that's what I've used since.

PeteHski

Head tube length can be a bit misleading on some models. For example, Canyon use a longer than standard fork length on the Endurace, so the front is higher than you might think looking only at the head tube length. So stack, reach and wheelbase are what I look at first.

PeteHski

Agreed. What I've found locally is that there are simply no bike shops that I would trust to do a decent pre-sale fit. Plus they don't have many, if any, demo bikes to test. There are however a few good independent bike fitters who I could use if I wasn't confident of my current fit or new to the game.

I think with Canyon you either need to be confident of your sizing or go down the pro fitter route and budget the cost of that on top of the bike. Depending on location it could still work out cheaper overall and once you get the bike you can always go back to the pro-fitter for a follow-up. Canyon will work with you to swap stems or integrated bars as required within the 30 days, but I think you have to buy the replacement parts first and then return the originals for refund. It's not as easy as it would be with a local bike shop, but not a disaster. I do wish Canyon would have a bit more flexibility on build options, but that would probably slow things down a bit on the supply.

TiHabanero

I have worked on a number of Canyon bikes and they simply are well put together. I don't know what it is like to file a warranty claim with them, but it is you vs. the company, no intermediary. A bike shop is a bit different as the consumer has the shop to represent him to the bike company. I suspect the experience is quite different.

The frame on my son's bike cracked less than a year into it. The brand is a British brand and the company is not honoring the frame warranty, even though they admitted the cracked chain stay is eligible. He's in Seattle, they are across the pond. After some research this seems to be a problem with this company. He is not going to go with an online vendor again and will be buying from an LBS. As I permanently retired from the bike biz this fall I am unable to help him with a new frame, but agreed with him it is a wise to go local.
For what its worth, he has gone through 3 frames total, all being aluminum. They don't seem to last with him. The titanium Habanero I gave him is in its seventh year and is going strong. He did say to me it is his favorite bike. I do believe there is something to a properly build titanium frame being a lifetime item.

jans

Forget about the 2 bikes I mentioned in the initial post. From reading this thread, I have been reminded of the fact that I do not know my measurements and which bike geometry ( not just the 2 I mentioned) would fit me best. Sounds the like recommended route is to get a bike fit done prior to buying and buy based off the results. I am in Tampa/ St Pete, there is a good independent bike fitter not far from here, I will consult him.

MinnMan

"Bike fit" isn't so much a matter of Trek vs. Canyon. Odds are they both have models that would "fit" you. the questions are about frame size and things like whether you are better off with a race geometry frame or a relaxed geometry? (e.g., for Trek, that would be Madone vs Domane or possibly an Edmonda).

Visiting a bike fitter could help you with this, but the thing is, if you're looking to buy a pretty high end bike ($4k? according to your OP), you'd be better off knowing some things about what kind of riding you will be doing, whether you have the fitness and body to be comfortable in an aggressive riding position or if you would be more comfortable in a more upright and relaxed position, etc. A bike fitter can't necessarily addresss those questions for you, though they should be able to help.

Based on your OP, you're not new to riding, but are new to road bikes or at least higher end road bikes. What kind of riding do you do? Distances, speed, frequency, surfaces? How fit are you and how's your overall core strength? have you got physical limitations (bad back, etc.)? These are all considerations in choosing the bike that matters for you.

I have nothing against people buying expensive bikes, but personally I rode the hell out of a cheaper road bike before I was ready to go shopping for an expensive one. By then, I knew a lot more about myself as a rider and was better able to buy the right bike for me.