gmcjetpilot

Hi new guy, Apology for posting twice, once in folding bike section. It really belongs in this category. I just bought a Green Zone, folding bike. I like it. Unpacked and went for ride. It would not shift into 7th gear, high at all. It shifted well 2 through 6 well. I adjusted the derailleur. Works well now up and down shifts all 7 hears. However the whole derailleur looks like it is angled and twisted slightly. It seems to be loose or have excess play at the attachment of the derailleur to direct mount/hanger. I think the derailleur and hanger are permanently attached as a unit or assembly.

Gear set is Shimano MF-TZ500-7.
Derailleur RD-TY21-B-GS but not 100%. It says: "Shimano", "Tourney", "SIS Index". Looking at images, this part number is a good match to what is on the bike.

Not sure the hanger is bent, it looks OK. What it looks like is derailleur is loose on the direct mount/hanger. I can wiggle it a good bit.. The cage and pulley is not aligned with gear set. Bike was shipped and packed well. I assume direct hit during shipment, even double boxed, might have caused damage. OR IS THIS LOOSENESS NORMAL?

.What is the right part number.. RD-TY21-B-GS, if that is correct, I am going to buy a spare. This thing is low and hangs out. It is going to get beat sooner or later being a folding bike. PS What is a good upgrade to this Shimano derailleur? Any help or suggestions appreciated.

cyccommute 

Is the play in a Tourney derailer normal? Yes. Should it have that much play? No but Shimano built it that way.

Do yourself a favor and get an Alivio or Acera or Altus rear derailer. All of them are stiffer…and work better…than a Tourney.

gmcjetpilot

Thank you bike riding scientist. Good info. Appreciate it. I am going to look at upgrading it. I don't want to change the Shimano gear cassette or shifter, so compatibility is key. I could buy another RD-TY21 and see if it's tighter. If not Amazon free return. The derailleur has to be Shimano SiS Index capable. I am hesitant to mix and match brands. Good news these derailleurs are not too expensive.

I am just blown away with how loose the derailleur and integral hanger connection is. I have to admit it works well, quiet, sifts fast and solid. Hummmm if it ain't broke don't fix it comes to mind. At least I know I have options. This may go with the Shimano Uni-glide twisted teeth on the gear set. That is weird as well, but have to admit it shifts better than other bikes I have or had. The question is how long will it last. What ever I do I will need a spare, this derailleur is hanging way out and low on this folding bike. It will eventually get wacked riding it or handling it. Thanks again.

bboy314

I would take the above advice and NOT buy another tourney derailleur. A Shimano Acera or Alivio or Altus derailleur will be a big upgrade for not much more money. Any tourney derailleur will have too much play to shift crisply. Also probably worthwhile to have a bike shop check your derailleur hanger alignment.

gmcjetpilot

What is the part number? I just talked to Shimano and they suggested
rd-ty500
rd-ty300

PS I asked Shimano customer service, described the looseness and they said it was not normal. This derailleur I suspect took a good wack during shipping or was crap to start with.

bboy314

There are many variations and part numbers of these models. Any of the above mentioned models, made for 7, 8 or 9 speed drivetrain should work.

Here is one, just for an example:
https://www.nashbar.com/shimano-acera-rdt3000-rear-derailleur-silver-9-speed-long-cage-sgs-erdt3000sgss/p1279143

Edit: reading your post again, the bit about the derailleur and hanger being one unit suggests this might be a “claw” style derailleur. Depending on the dropout on your folding bike, this may limit your choicest. If you’re able to post a picture of the derailleur and dropout that would help in determining a good replacement.

alcjphil

This would indicate to me that your derailleur hanger may need to be aligned. If that is the case a new derailleur no matter what quality will not solve your shifting problem

70sSanO

Tourney uses 2 different types of attachments. I "think" the A is an integrated bracket, or claw type, and the B is a direct attach to the hanger; but I'm not entirely sure of the letter designation.

You just need to make sure which one you have as you go to upgrade.

John

veganbikes

If you can return the bike I would do that. I wen to their website and the first thing I saw was "as seen on TV" and that is a good sign run don't walk away from it.

You could upgrade the rear mech as people have suggested but I would look for a bike that is already set up properly with a decent rear mech you will find it to be of more quality and reliability in the overall bike. If you are buying a bike and it has the bottom end of anyone's range and is not a really known quantity at a shop you will potentially run into other issues. Tern, Brompton, Dahon...all make some decent folding bikes. They may cost more but they have excellent support behind them and quality (at least on the Tern end and I believe Brompton as well I haven't worked at a Dahon dealer but Tern is ex-family of David Hon their founder).

bboy314

If your derailleur looks like this, with the claw facing the rear (to match the dropout), that will prevent you from replacing it with most available options. Some folding bikes are spec’d this way. Problem Solvers makes an adapter that MAY solve this problem (again, assuming you have this type of hanger), depending on the dropout:
https://problemsolversbike.com/produ...hain_tensioner

cyccommute 

Compatibility isn’t a problem. Any 9 speed Shimano derailer will work with your current shifter and cassette. For that matter any 6, 7, or 8 will work with it. 10 speed Shimano road derailers would work as well but they may not have the range you need. Don’t waste your time on buying another Tourney.

Tourneys aren’t meant to be sloppy but they just are. I’ve seen some almost new ones that are flexible enough that they won’t hold the gear. They are ultra cheap so lots of companies are now using them on the low price point bikes but they are also ultra poorly built.

On the plus side, a (slightly) more expensive derailer will stand up to a lot more banging around than a Tourney does.

cyccommute 

Tourneys have a flat steel upper mount that is quite soft. They are fairly easy to bend by hand and will often bend before the hanger does. If the bike doesn’t have a claw hanger, the hanger on the Tourney is similar in strength to the claw.

gmcjetpilot

UPGRADE - purchased Shimano Altus RD-M310 7/8 Speed Direct Mount Black Rear Derailleur. The derailleur and the mount are solid one piece cast, no play between the derailleur mount as it's solid not a thin metal plate riveted on. The Tourney RD-TY21 I have stock uses fairly thin metal plate (likely not high heat treat) that is riveted onto the derailleur and attached via single fastener to bikes hanger. All the play is and the source of misalignment is between derailleur and it's integral metal direct mount. Let me be quick to say it is shifting well. This play may be be by design. The thin-ish metal mount has an advantage, it's sacrificial if it gets wacked. The more ridged derailleurs like the Altus will likely bend the actual bike hanger (thick aluminum plate). BTW The Bike distributor refunded some money. See my comments on bike below.

cyccommute said the play may be normal. He is probably is right. I called Shimano and described how loose, wobbly it felt and looked. They thought it sounded excessive but admitted there is some play. They can only guess not seeing it. I went to a very high end bike shop, really nice décor, coffee shop, no kids bikes or entry level bikes, mechanics working in plain view. Nice mechanic stopped what he was doing, looked at it, was not shocked, said they do that. The fact it works well now he suggested just ride it. Also he suggest as you all have said the Altus and Acera, I am going to replace the RD-TY21 Tourney because I don't like they way it looks with cage/pulleys at an angle, almost 1/4" play. May be this is why it shifts well and quiet? The mounts on Altus and Acera are solid, no play of the mount. We shall see when I replace it.

Done and Done. I wasted too much time looking at the Acera (RD-M360) vs Altus.(RD-M310). They are about same price, have same reviews, flip a coin. I bought the Altus RD-M310. This design does NOT have thin metal plate riveted on derailleur. The whole thing, mounting flange and derailleur are sold one piece casting. All movement will be from the parallelogram and pivot of the cage, as it should be? Again I think the RD-TY21 Tourney works well just sloppy looking. Is that mounting play intentional, a "floating mount", a mistake during manufacture, or shipping damage. I would like to get another example and compare. Bottom line if the gears and pulleys are not lined up I assume gear and chain wear increases. It is possible it straightens up under load, when pedaling. Weird.


THREAD DRIFT WARNING - Do not read if you have no interest in folding bikes
Normally I would agree with you. But this bike is awesome, no return. It rides so well, solid, low rolling resistance, feels like a larger non-folding bike. The aluminum frame has beautiful TIG welds, fit, finish and overall quality is very good for $400. It beats folding bikes in the $800 range in my opinion, from research not actual side by side comparison, I don't have an agenda but really like the bike. The lower end Shimano setup is not bad, it is working well. I just hate the wobble of the derailleur (which may be by design or manufacture goof, or shipping damage), See my post in Folding Bike Section: "real specs folding bikes folded size weight."

I will likely buy a Brompton in the future. Why? I have a small two place kit plane (RV-7) I'm building and the Brompton will fit better.

Below is a snip from my post showing typical folding bike specs. I list typical brands and models under about $1000. I did not include Bike Friday or Birdy, they are expensive. I did include the entry level Brompton because it was just above my $1000 at $1050 and a good bench mark. There are many makes and models of folding bikes, some cheap Chinese-zee-nium (Goplus $220) and very expansive carbon fiber Chinese-zee-uium.folding bikes (Sava $2000), Both cheap and expensive may be good bikes depending on what you want or need. The problem is getting to see and touch these folding bikes before buying, The Green Zone around for at least 10 yrs, free shipping from Texas, no tax, is a great value, and the proof is in the riding, it rides VERY nice. Very impressed, solid, low rolling resistance, not built cheap or cheaply made, not withstanding the low end derailleur. The down side for me, slightly bigger folded dimensions than advertised by a few inches. For most people an inch or two larger size folded is a yawn. For me I wanted a bike to take in the plane I am building. The Green Zone will fit but it's going to be a squeeze. If I take the rear rack off and the seat and tube out that makes it smaller. I don't think they fudged it, just optimistic. Measuring a bike folded up with bits and pieces hanging out is not easy. It is not an even rectangular shape. I am not returning this bike. I like it, The planes baggage compartment is big enough, it's just getting it into the compartment that is iffy. I will have to do an optional sliding canopy modification that makes access to the baggage area easier. With that said a 16" Brompton may be down the road for me. Pun intended. I doubt the Brompton will be a better ride, but it definitely will be WAY MORE expensive.

Typical 20" folding bikes under Approx $1000 and their folded dimension, weight, cost configuration.

Green Zone* 28″ x 21″ x 11″ ** 28 lbs $399 (Alloy Frame, Fenders, Rack, 7 Spd, Included accessories, carry bag, rear rack, folding pedals, water bottle/holder)
Brompton A-line 25.3" x 23" x 10.6" 23.1 lbs $1050 (Steel, 3 spd)
Dahon D8 32” x 26.2" x 13” 27.7 lbs $869 (Alloy, Fenders, Rack, 8 spd),
Citizen MIAMI 35" x x 23.5" x 17" 32/34 lbs $399 (Steel, Fenders, 6 spd)
Citizen Tokyo 31" x 22" x 12.5" 30/32 lbs $379 (Steel, Fenders, 6 Spd, 16" rim)
ZiZZO Ferro 33" x 28" x 12" 29 lbs $270 (Steel, 7 Spd)
Zizzo Liberté 31" x 27" x 14" 23 lbs $480 (Alloy, 8 Spd)
Zizzo Forté 31" x 27" x 14" 29.5 lbs $480 (Alloy, fenders, rack, 7 spd)
Zizzo Viva 31" x 27" x 14" 27 lbs $389 (Alloy, fender, 7 spd)
Tern A7 31.5" × 28.7" × 15.6" 26.7 lbs $549 (Alloy, 7 spd)
Tern D8 31.5" × 28.7" × 15" 26.7 lbs $949 (Alloy, Fenders, Rack, 8 spd)
Tern C8 31.5" × 28.7" × 15.6" 28.2 lbs $849 (Alloy, 8 spd)
Schwinn Loop 32.5″ x 26″ x 16″ 33 lbs $430 (Steel, Fenders, Rack, 7 Spd)
Goplus 32.5" x 24" x 12.5" 32 lbs $220 (Steel, 7 Spd)
Average Weight 28.4 lbs
Average Price $537 (threw out most expensive Brompton and cheapest Goplus)
Average Dimensions
L 31.25
H 25.7
W 13.75

*Green Zone 30.25″ x 23″ x 12.25″ 29 lbs (published vs actual as measured "Approx").First weight the two fenders, steel rear cargo rack and aluminum kick stand off, reduces weight 3lbs 3oz. That is 26 lbs. pretty good. The whole bike is aluminum. except forks. To measure a folded folding bike is not easy or perfectly rectangular. I am sure all manufactures take some liberties in how they measure them. Even with these "actual" numbers the Green Zone compares favorably and cost half some of other bikes. Are the other bikes better? May be? Don't know. Better how? Again hard to find folding bikes local and ride them. Bikes in general are a niche' thing or a ubiquitous consumer commodity. Folding bikes are even more of a niche'. Most (none) of the bike stores in my area do not carry folding bikes. It is pretty much mail order or special order. With shipping cost high, bike shipping has become very expensive. However the folding bikes when shipped folded has some advantages in cost. Most still offer free shipping, even Brompton (they have a USA distribution). I assume they will do this for awhile to get sales, but eventually if things keep going the way they are free shipping will go away. Mail order is fine but the chance to try it before you buy is almost non existent. I am very happy with my purchase, but still would love to try different folding bikes.

There is nothing wrong with the Shimano shifter on the Green Zone, is is crisp, quiet. None of these folding bikes are going to use top of the line setups. If they do they will be over $2000. If it was not for me needing to adjust the derailleur out of the box (possibly due to shipping damage) I might have never have noticed the slop in the derailleur mount and just rode it fat happy and dumb. Now that I see it, upgrade about $20, why not. I doubt it will shift better, but those weird angles bother me. I wonder if the mount is "floating" by design and when under load it rocks back in-line? Possible. BTW the Shimano MF-TX500-7 cassette or gears are slightly twisted? It is Shimano Uni-guide or something? Also weird, but it works. This is not a competitive mountain or road bike. It is recreational and for transportation. I don't need the best, just something compact, light, rides solid and reliable. BTW they designs of folding bikes are clever. You can set them up in less than 30 seconds.

So far my Max length ride was 10 miles with some small hills and even 5 min of light rain, enough to get bike paths and roads wet. Most was on hard surface and some hard packed dirt. The full front and back fenders with rubber splash guards is nice to keep from kicking up dirt and water onto the bike and you. It shifted beautifully even under load going up hill. My early riding days go back before indexed shifters.

BTW This is my 2nd folding bike. I owned an Ancheer 26" Folding Mountain E-Bike full suspension for four years. It was nice. I like the pedal assist and full throttle. Made rides faster and less strain especially on hills. I sold it. Folded it took up too much space even in my hatch-back car, for camping and road trips. No way this would fit in a small airplane, and weighed about 60 lbs. Actually that is not bad as most full sized e-Bikes are in the 60lb plus range. Lower end bikes can be good. I made money on this $700 folding E-bike because I paid $400 for it 4 yrs ago. I sold it for more. Not bad. How many bikes did you make money on? Some Chinese-zee-nium is not bad and present a good value for casual riders. However prices are nuts. Serious hard core riders, get the $3000-$10,000 bike. Most of us are good with entry or intermediate level bikes.

gmcjetpilot

Mission accomplished. Just installed the Shimano Altus. Looks good, but a little bigger and heavier, and it sticks out a bit more. However it solid, the play is nominal, small. Have not adjusted it yet, don't have time but great upgrade. THANK YOU EVERYONE.