bikebikebike

a Stroller, the $600 All-Terrain RIDGE Jogging Stroller has been recalled by this CPSC for amputating a child's finger.
Apparently a child outside of the stroller got a finger into the brake disk of a spoked wheel.
HOW OFTEN ARE DISC BRAKES CUTTING FOLKS?
I noted how sharp the edges of bicycle discs can be incidentally ,
and despite my propensity for getting fingers caught in gears have never enjoyed this particular trauma
Baby strollers really need disc brakes too, yeah.
I have trailers , and they at the most need a parking brake. IMHO

csport

The manufacturer page says, "Disc hand brake system. Reliable performance hand brake to slow your roll, even when running downhill." This is what their idea was.

The recall message does not say it was a sharp edge, instead it says,
HAZARD: The stroller’s rear disc brakes have openings that can cause amputation or laceration if a non-occupant child’s fingertip gets caught in the openings while the stroller is in use.


Photo from https://uppababy.com/ridge/

veganbikes

Disc Brakes aren't cutting folks, sure if you get caught in a moving object like that you can get hurt. It is up to the parents to teach their kids to keep their fingers out of there or use solid rotors.

Disc Brakes on a jogging stroller aren't a bad idea or at least some sort of brakes.

UniChris

Not realistic for a product specifically intended to be used in the presence of toddlers just staring to discover the world.

Should parents be teaching babies not to put their heads through improperly spaced crib bars, too?

And that's more realistic.

Just as we've learned that crib bars need to be spaced close enough that a little head can't fit between and get stuck, so it becomes apparent that a stroller can't just borrow parts as is from the bike industry, but needs to alter the design to suit. The issue would appear to be with the weight-saving "spoke" cutouts while the smaller perforations are probably fine. If eliminating the spoking would yield a disc stiff enough that a dual acting caliper or one on a mount that can flex a little would then be needed is a question that industry should be able to figure out.

veganbikes

True. I was more thinking while in motion how they would get a hand that close to the rotor.

Gresp15C

What I learned from my kids is: If it can happen within the laws of physics, it will happen. Curious kids can do things that you didn't think possible.

My mom had a kiddie seat on her bike. I somehow got my heel into the spokes. I don't think she was moving very fast when it happened, and my dad fashioned some shields to prevent it from happening again. Modern kiddie seats are designed better.

My spouse and I had a Baby Jogger, the original model. It had a single hand brake on the front wheel. The instructions with the jogger actually addressed the possibility of the kid reaching into the wheels.

I can't see the point of disc brakes on a stroller. But a lot of baby products are basically expensive bling for bougie moms and indulgent grandparents. And then the knock-offs come out with the same bling but made like crap. It's a racket. I don't think we would have bought the Baby Jogger, had it not been a gift. Also, a lot of baby products seem to be engineered by waiting until something bad happens, and recalling the product. We suspected that companies would let their older products go onto the recall list, so they were less likely to be handed down or resold.

Polaris OBark

There is no remotely rational reason for a stroller to have any type of brake, except a parking lock. Whomever thought this was a good idea is an idiot.


Generalizing to disc brakes on bicycles is at best a reach.

79pmooney

I suppose it is completely unrealistic ti think that maybe someone would see that putting these dangers at the height of a child's hand could lead to problems. What kid ever put his fingers where they didn't belong?

bikebikebike

They appear to have created a problem by using bike parts.
If the wheel is removed the disc is vulnerable to being bent in transit, solid wheels and discs could be used
Who needs that kind of braking performance anyway? Running down hill that steep and fast conjures up more problems than braking.
Dangerous "solution" to nobody's problem other than the craving for mo' better, fancy.
Did I miss something?
Is there Olympic 100 yard downhill baby racing where fine modulation and brake fade are concerns and differential brake steering is a plus?

My actual concern was that discs add cost and complexity most don't need and injury risk may be higher, as well, both from cuts and
accidental over braking, and this may be another hidden hazard.

Bald Paul

A simple plastic cover over the rotor and caliper would solve the issue. It's not like you're going to build a lot of heat in the rotor without enough ventilation.

work4bike

Seems like a problem with parenting, not the brakes. But that's just going off the OP.

gpburdell

Recall mentions non-occupant children getting injured - which I could see happening say walking on a park path with kids walking alongside the stroller. i.e. slightly older siblings or friend's toddlers

As much as I'm a proponent of proper parenting instead of bubblewrapping the world, we need to recognize that no child is perfectly obedient all the time, just as no parent is 100% perfect 100% of the time. Taking basic precautions against obvious potential dangers - such as preventing the curious child walking next to the stroller from suddenly poking its fingers into an open brake disk - is a reasonable precaution.

work4bike

This is true. I didn't mean to pass judgement, I was simply going off very little information, but interested in reading more about how this happened. Actually, when I first read it, the thought immediately came into my head of the countless times I've seen people on bikes with dogs in tow on long leashes. I wonder how many of them gave thought to the chance of the dog/leash getting caught up in the spokes.

My picture of this incident brings to mind a young toddler (but I don't know the age) who is at an age that you can't say, "don't do this..." and expect them to listen. That's why people child-proof their houses. Kids are curious, so you have to be extra vigilant. I'm always paranoid when I'm told to watch little kids.


,

UniChris

The concern was specifically a non-occupant child. Either the barely self-mobile older sibling of the one in the stroller, or the kid who's getting to the point where they demand to walk some, but not the whole way, so the stroller still has to come along for when they get tired out. Parent pauses to look at traffic before crossing the street, curious kid's hand goes in the rotor, parent monitors that kid is still next to them in peripheral vision but attention is on deciding if that driver really is yielding the crosswalk.

Might have something to do with how big and heavy strollers have gotten (especially the ones for two kids plus gear), that some of these are marketed under the idea that the parent can fairly seriously jog (or even rollerblade) with them, and the presence of hills - holding back the descent of something that's at arms length in front of you isn't fun, even as a person a lot bigger than some of the parents pushing these.

CliffordK

It would be easy enough to redesign the disc so that there are no holes big enough for a kid to fit their fingers into them.

And, of course, round all corners so there are no sharp edges.

My guess is the manufacturer of the really expensive strollers decided to go cheap and buy the cheapest brake discs they could find.

csport

I would also add a brake which is (when switched on) engaged by default, and pressing the lever releases it. The idea is to stop the stroller if the jogging adult falls or releases it for any other reason. This way the stroller will not roll downhill unattended.
Something like the pneumatic lines trains have: the line that runs between the cars provides pressure to counter the lines within each car and stop the brakes from being engaged. If the cars decouple, the line that runs between them is torn and it loses the pressure, the brakes are engaged to prevent the decoupled cars from running away.
The mechanism would be different, but the idea is the same: when the stroller is released parking brakes are activated.

UniChris

Maybe, and I thought about that. But there's also the issue of the inward facing side needing guarding. And plastic guards can break..

Ultimately though it's probably an engineering exercise beyond a forum to figure out if it's more practical to make a rotor without large cutouts, or a rotor shield.

A stroller (vs bike) rotor could probably be smaller, too.

I doubt the disc is for performance reasons, rather, the lack of something taking the role of a "fork" (or rear triangle) means that it would be a bit harder to figure out what to mount a rim brake caliper to. Also that would probably need an aluminum, vs plastic rim.

The person who said "hey there's this technology that's showing up on cheap mass market bikes that we could use" was on to something.

The only problem is, they didn't finish the task of adapting it to a distinct use with distinct concerns.

Gresp15C

The original Baby Jogger had a strap that you were supposed to put around your wrist, to restrain the jogger in case you let go or fell. It also had a catch on the brake lever that would let you lock it.

CliffordK

It should be easy enough to just design a reverse brake lever and handle, so you squeeze the lever and it releases, and when you release, a spring simply opens up the lever and activates the brakes. Make it so it is comfortable squeezing.

The E-Brake would also be nice when simply stopping the stroller and grabbing the kid.

Note, most modern trucks are also like you describe. A heavy spring at the brake which activates the brakes. Then air pressure releases the brakes. If a trailer is decoupled, either intentionally or otherwise, the brakes are automatically on.

I think many 3 wheel strollers only brake the center front wheel. But, this discs on the two rear wheels may be more stable.

Inisfallen

Could not agree more (and I've got three kids -- I have extensive experience with strollers ).

Look, small children are basically intensely curious monkeys with slightly more intelligence than your average monkey, but way less sense of self-preservation and understanding of consequences. This has to be taken into account when designing products for small children.

And you're right that double disc brakes for a stroller are bull***t. They're totally unnecessary. But probably a big seller in brownstone Brooklyn (where I live). People around here will spend ridiculous amounts of money on baby junk, including strollers. They'll buy UPPAbaby strollers that cost more than a thousand dollars. They'll buy so many of them around here that UPPAbaby has their physical walk-in service center, one of only three nationwide, right here in this neighborhood. Pretty much most of the moms in the neighborhood think that if you don't spend a thousand bucks on your stroller, and another thousand bucks on your car seat (to put in either your Tesla or your Volvo, could go either way), you're guilty of child abuse.

It's just stupid all around.

dabac

manufacturer’s warning mentions ” non-occupant child”. Which appears to be what happened.
It would indeed be clumsy and worthy of a recall if the occupant could reach around and get hurt.

livedarklions

Disc brakes on a stroller make about as much sense as explosive armor on a stroller. How the heck is the thing supposed to stop faster than the person pushing it will?

CliffordK

Brakes are popular on them. Consider jogging down a hill pushing a cart with a 30 pound weight in it, then having to stop suddenly for a vehicle pulling into/out of a driveway. A little extra help holding it back would be nice.

Iride01 

It wouldn't be hard for the manufacturers to make a cover to go over the disc's. However for bicycles UCI doesn't allow fairings. And a cover on the disc would be considered a fairing by them. And also, it's still a little hard to justify as statistic for the incidents of such are rare. Though of course the few that do happen get overly re-used on the internet.

I wonder if eventually there'll be covers on the disc for those of us not doing UCI sanctioned events. Will many of us will think of them as fondly as we do chain guards or dork disc's?

Perhaps I strayed from the stroller topic of the OP, ..... but that wasn't bicycle to begin with!

And this is a bicycle forum.

livedarklions

Honestly, I suspect the physics of that are such that if the brake actually produced more stopping power than planting your feet alone, you'd actually end up pushing the stroller forward when your forward momentum drove you into the back of the stroller and it might actually be harder to control. I think for the idea of brakes to actually make the stroller safer, the dead man's switch approach would have to be used--it's braking unless you're actively pulling the lever. That prevents the run-away stroller if you lose your grip on it.