adipe

i am in a pissy mood right now with all your misinformation accusation - while really it is you who are spreading "misinformation". so i won't bother with replying to all your points in your response(s). just the blatant absurdities that annoyed me the most. it takes too much time from me and by the way, how did you come up with the 100$ estimation in time and costs for the ingredients - i never gave product exact information - which you described are needed for "cleaning a chain"???? that is one more blatant example of a straw man argument on your part.

1.
i never wrote <<deionized water>>. go figure. straw man argument. again and again. misrepresenting/misreading what i wrote. clearly the person who wrote the followin article is spreading misinformation, right? rhetorical question.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com...tion-stability
Oxidation stability is a chemical reaction that occurs with a combination of the lubricating oil and oxygen. The rate of oxidation is accelerated by high temperatures, water, acids and catalysts such as copper. The rate of oxidation increases with time. The service life of a lubricant is also reduced with increases in temperature. Oxidation will lead to an increase in the oil's viscosity and deposits of varnish and sludge.

2.
additives (antioxidants) are always present in any commercially available lubricant (even if not described on the label) because most folks don't like to hot bath in a cheap wax that very often. it is one reason most folks don't want to use wax - ignorance AND misinformation. without the additives the wax will degrade too quickly. by the way... you were writing about time being consumed in chain maintenance. if time is money then i'll assure you that additives add a much less cost compared to regular wax - straight paraffin or not. because certain additives can make the lubricant last much longer, wax included. and there's no need for huge amounts, just a bit of some quality GL4 gear oil in the chain prior to the hot bath can make a huge difference. try it... even if you won't ever give me credit if doing so and seeing me proven right.

3.
https://www.britannica.com/science/paraffin-wax
Paraffin wax, colourless or white, somewhat translucent, hard wax consisting of a mixture of solid straight-chain hydrocarbons ranging in melting point from about 48° to 66° C (120° to 150° F).
...
It is used in candles, wax paper, polishes, cosmetics, and electrical insulators.


https://www.britannica.com/science/microcrystalline-wax
The colour of microcrystalline waxes ranges from creamy white to dark brown. Decolorization is difficult, and these waxes’ odour and taste may be undesirable in some applications.
...
Microcrystalline waxes are used chiefly in laminated-paper products, in coatings and linings, and in adhesives, sealing compositions, and various types of polishes.
(no candle thing mentioned).

no, not "slight" differences at all but a huge difference performance wise first of all. that is because of the branched chain structure of the molecule. and candle wax is "generally" straight chain paraffin. definitely. yes, microcrystalline wax COULD be used in candle making but it is not what i use and what i advise folks to use if the other kind can be had with not too much trouble. i dunno if there is a difference in price and it would be negligible if so.

britannica is clearly spreading misinformation too...

...
so, i will dude you, dude. one last time. that is because you are throwing the misinformation accusation while being in the wrong, misreading what i write and also keep on imputing the lack of caps while you are at much greater fault.

anyway, i won't reply to any of your posts (meaning in particular replies to mine) and you can feel free to throw crap (meaning that false accusation - "misinformation" - and false arguments to support your accusation) around while being clearly in the wrong - unjustifiable crap. that's because you build too many straw man arguments and bring too many falsehoods to the table also. thereby giving the impression that you have MANY arguments (while it is you who are spreading misinformation) to attack me while claiming that i am wrong and spreading "misinformation".

i'll just add you to the ignore list and that will be all.

cyccommute 

So much for grand pronouncements

It doesn’t matter if you wrote deionized water or not. Water is a molecule with one oxygen and two hydrogens. Anything that doesn’t have that molecular formulas isn’t “water”. I also address other things “non-water” chemicals that might be in the water. There is no salt of any kind that you will encounter while riding a bicycle that will facilitate the oxidation of a petroleum derived hydrocarbon oil. Hydrocarbon oils are hydrophobic and adding salt to the water will only increase that hydrophobisity.

See my quote above about activation energy. The article you are quoting is talking about what happens to oil at the kinds of temperatures and pressure in an internal combustion engine. That’s at temperatures around 700°C. It’s also over a period of 5000 miles (roughly). At an average of 40 mph, that’s about 125 hr of driving. Bicycles don’t even approach that kind of duty cycle.

I’ll agree that bicycle lubricants are complex mixtures. If the lubricant has an antioxidant in it, it is there for shelf life. It won’t make enough difference when the lubricant is applied to the chain to protect against oxidation when the lubricant is on the bike for a relatively short time before it is contaminated or drips off.

As for hot waxing, most people don’t find the procedure to be all that convenient. I’ve tried it but found it to be far to cumbersome to use regularly. Solvent based waxing does the same thing without having to remove the chain.

What does the wax degrade into? How are the properties changed? How about providing some evidence that the wax is changed to something that won’t lubricate? How about a spectrum showing this huge difference you claim?

Wikipedia says

These guys...who make microcrystalline wax...say that 2 of three categories of microcrystalline wax is used for candles. I’d go with what the manufacturer says over

In the application of lubricating bicycle chains, it’s only going to be slight differences, especially with regard to performance. You aren’t going to see huge differences in terms of mileage no matter what lubricant you use.

Perhaps look beyond one source next time.

...
Whatever. Your loss.

Inisfallen

This thread is funny.

I spent decades riding motorcycles, and I learned then that debating lubes is much like debating theological flash points like, say, the legitimacy of the Papacy, or transubstantiation vs. consubstantiation. And almost as likely to lead to actual armed conflict.

And I mean debating any kind of lubricant. Chain lube, engine oil, what kind of oil for a shaft drive, right down to the pivot point on a clutch lever. And yes, there are those who whip up their own stuff, supposedly superior to anything on the market, from a recipe more closely guarded than the mix for KFC's 11 herbs and spices.

I love it.

Also, yesterday, since it was raining all day and I wasn't going anywhere by bike, I cleaned and waxed my chain. Cleaned with mineral spirits, waxed with plain old Gulf Wax. Took maybe 30 minutes total time. Yes, I get that it's probably not as good as oiling the chain regularly, etc., but it's cleaner, and I ride this bike to work, in work (office) clothes. It works fine, and I really don't have to do it that often.

cyccommute 

Just to be clear, I think far too much kerfuffle is made chain cleaning and chain cleaning methods. adipe’s cleaning methods aren’t particularly elaborate compared to others but, in general, elaborate cleaning methods are a waste of time, as are elaborate lubrication methods. The average bicycle chain is going to last about the same amount of mileage no matter if you don’t do much of anything to it vs slathering it with the most expensive lubricant in the world.

SkinGriz

Chains are relatively cheap. I’m relatively lazy. Here goes.

Have 2 chains. One stays in a container of ATF. The other on the bike. When you feel the need to clean and lube your chain. Just switch them.