mwatt65 

I was thinking of getting a bike GPS either a Karoo 2, Garmin Edge 530 or a Wahoo Elemnt Bolt. Any thought's or advice?

adamrice 

Have you checked out DC Rainmaker? He's got very extensive reviews of each that should help you figure out what you want.

Iride01 

Get one or the other.

However, I use to think touch screens weren't necessary. My very basic Garmin Edge 500 did everything well with just button pushes. However on my Garmin 530, I'm finding out that some of the extra features I might find useful while riding the bike are a little troublesome to get to while zipping 22 mph along the road. So I tend not to use them. Wish I'd gotten a touch screen model. My Edge 530 pretty much is just the same functionality while I am on the bike as my Edge 500 was.

Elvo

If you want a smooth smartphone like experience, go with the Karoo 2. If you want something that works with a few frills, get the 530. Not sure why anyone would get a Bolt at the moment but the blinking lights are cool

chaadster

The Bolt user interface is way better, in every way, than the 530. The system organization is better, the phone app integration is better (in terms of controllimg the unit), and the ergonomics are better.

One of the things I really prefer on Bolt compared to 530 is that I can set any two data fields atop the nav/map screen, something the 530 does not offer. Probably, if I lived somewhere with mountains, I’d prefer Garmin for the ClimbPro feature, but I don’t, so the overall Wahoo package is more appealing.

Ultimately, I think that if one is into whiz-bang gadgetry, the Garmin is a fiddler’s delight and also has the best MTB trail nav, making for a no-brainer choice if those are important to you. If someone is all into road navigation and map looks, Karoo is on top. And if someone wants a well-rounded, fully featured computer which is easy to use but provides all the data and metrics from their ride for post ride assessment, the Wahoo is probably the best choice there.

None are best overall, but one is going to better depending on how the rider wants to use it.

Steve B.

That Wahoo user interface is pretty much only better for the initial setup, once thats done its a wash as to which device is better as actual daily use comes down to what you like, as they both get the job done. Yes Ive owned a Bolt and assorted Garmins.

Steve B.

Ive used an Edge 810, 1000 and 1030, a Wahoo Bolt and now a Karoo 2. I prefer some things on the K2 over the others hands down. Easier to setup, very smooth and reliable setup and connection to sensors and what not. A beautiful screen and great graphics and map. Reliable. Hammerhead seems significantly more dedicated to pushing updates, features and assorted improvements than the others, certainly more so than Garmin, who still has significant and ongoing BlueTooth issues years later. Garmin seems like they'd rather sell you the new 30 models than fix the 20's. Hammerhead wants you to get and use the new features and tell them what you'd like improved. Karoo is still missing some things I'd like, like more map options for off road use, as well as a link to TrailForks (this is really needed). But I think they'll get there. My K2 was worth the money. Its a better unit than an 830, almost as good as a 1030 Plus, IMO,

Badger6

Karoo2 if you're into a really awesome screen that is not very visible in bright sunlight and you like the idea of 4-5 hours of practical battery life with data fields that are not initially intuitive to read.

Garmin if you're into an easily readable screen in sunlight and long battery life and train seriously—the Garmin Connect dashboard (web) and app are quite useful. Not to mention the Garmin integration with TrainingPeaks. To get the most out of that stuff, a power meter is required. Of course, the main selling point of a Garmin is mapping, it's maps are excellent, but the devices I've had struggle to render the maps fast enough in areas with lots of map data (urban areas or complex intersections).

Wahoo if you want a simple setup (although the latest Garmin software ports prior setups from other compatible Garmin devices forward, so this is even less of a selling point), a nearly useless map screen (marginally better than breadcrumb nav from the early 00s), and some blinky lights.

None are perfect.

Steve B.

Ive tracked nearly a month worth of rides on my Karoo 2, have averaged 8% hr., for 12 hours use. Typically I'm using a speed sensor and about 50% of the time a Di2 system is connected. The battery life is less than the 20 hrs, of my Garmin 1030, Its also a bit less when navigating, but so are Garmins and really and unless you do double centuries or are touring does 12 hrs. vs. 20 matter ?. Wahoos are usually rated about 15 hrs and I never see folks commenting that 15 hrs is limiting and they wished they'd purchased the Garmin to get 20 hrs.

Ive no issues reading the screen in direct sunlight amd Karoo does offer white text in black, or the reverse, which is a nice function.

Getting routes from RWGPS is better on Karoo then Garmin.

There are really only 2 things I think Garmin does better. 1) is TrailForks integration and 2] is topo maps, which I'm hoping HH adds in the future.

Right now my take is the Karoo 2 is where it needs to be to compete with a Garmin. Karoo is a LOT less buggy than any Garmin I've used, 810-1000-1030. No continual BlueTooth issues, no issues with LiveTrack, that worked about 50-60% of the time on my 1030, years into its product life. I have a whole lot more confidence that Hammerhead is going to be worlds ahead of Garmin in terms of adding FEATURES THAT ACTUALLY ARE RELIABLE AND WORK, and will continue improving the product.

My 1030 has been reliable for the few functions I use, except Live Track and BlueTooth. It tracks a ride well, mostly uploads without issue, has a good navigation system, and is goddamned expensive for the feature set. I'd certainly be buying a Karoo 2 vs. an Edge 830, and would not pay $600 For a 1030 Plus.

Badger6

I see often claims of BT issues, Live Track, and general claims of buggy Garmins...I'm not sure what I am doing wrong, these issues are so rare in my use of my Garmins, which is on average daily, that they are unremarkable to me. You'd think reading the internet that Garmins are just expensive handlebar weights, which can't be farther from the truth in my experience.

I think what is lost on (or unknown to) most people is why Garmin Edge units are priced the way they are. It is the the licensed First Beat analytics that the units make use of when paired with a HRM and Power Meter to return actual performance metrics in the form of recommended rest period, estimated VO2Max with Lactate Threshold (which the one time I compared it to a LT test in a lab was within one heartbeat), and FTP. These things do not mean much to most people, and for them the choice of unit is going to be driven by other factors. But, for those of us that this stuff does matter, until Karoo and Wahoo get serious about their units being about more than recording activities for showing off on Strava or doing some really awesome mapping (and I mean that), their units are hobbyist fun at best which is more than sufficient for most people riding a bicycle on club rides or out exploring the earth.

BTW, I like that quote in the sig line, I can relate living in a windy land.

Badger6

I see often claims of BT issues, Live Track, and general claims of buggy Garmins...I'm not sure what I am doing wrong, these issues are so rare in my use of my Garmins, which is on average daily, that they are unremarkable to me. You'd think reading the internet that Garmins are just expensive handlebar weights, which can't be farther from the truth in my experience.

I think what is lost on (or unknown to) most people is why Garmin Edge units are priced the way they are. It is the the licensed First Beat analytics that the units make use of when paired with a HRM and Power Meter to return actual performance metrics in the form of recommended rest period, estimated VO2Max with Lactate Threshold (which the one time I compared it to a LT test in a lab was within one heartbeat), and FTP. These things do not mean much to most people, and for them the choice of unit is going to be driven by other factors. But, for those of us that this stuff does matter, until Karoo and Wahoo get serious about their units being about more than recording activities for sharing on Strava or doing some really awesome mapping (and I mean that for the Karoo, the Wahoo map interface is 1980s awesome), their units are hobbyist fun at best which is more than sufficient for most people riding a bicycle on club rides or out exploring the earth.

BTW, I like that quote in the sig line, I can relate living in a windy land.

BikeLite

"Garmin is a fiddler’s delight"
You sold me at fiddler

Steve B.

Our own experiences are what is known as "anecdotal". You've never (rarely) had issues, I had issues almost every ride. Some telling comments were from DCRainmaker in his review 2 years ago of "Garmin’s Biggest Competitor Is Their Own Software Instability | DC Rainmaker". From what I see as an active member of the Garmin Edge 1030 FaceBook group, the problems DC describes have never been resolved by Garmin.

chaadster

I guess it's kind of nice that Garmin head units-- what? Track? Calculate?-- FTP, VO2Max, and LTHR, but that info is also available to Wahoo and Karoo users who upload to most any of the data analysis sites or software like Trainer Road, Strava, Golden Cheetah, and Training Peaks. The value of in-ride analysis is quite dubious; most people do that stuff post-ride.

I'm not familiar with how Garmin calculaes or estimates that stuff, but I can imagine it would be nice if it could produce reasonably accurate numbers from random ride data rather than having to provide ride data from specific testing protocols, but again, I don't know if that's case, and if it isn't and testing is required, it again does not seem anything substantially or meaningfully different than what would be produced on another platform. And needless to say, if Garmin does aggregrate random ride data to generate estimates of FTP, LTHR, and VO2Max, then obviously for that user, those metrics don't matter much since they aren't bothered to test for them specifically or more accurately.

I get Garmin's effort to control a "vertically integrated" training environment from a traditional business perspective, but I can appreciate Wahoo leaving the data analysis space to those who specialize in training analysis (e.g. Training Peaks) and just focusing on the hardware side.

Seattle Forrest

​​​​​​Garmin bought First Beat fairly recently. 🙂

Seattle Forrest

A lot of Garmin's stuff makes use of data that doesn't necessarily/usually get written into the file. Their FTP function requires a chest strap and a power meter; you ride as normal, the computer or watch detects HRV patterns that show you're at threshold, and it tells you what power you make there. LTHR works the same way. Neither of those features require any specific protocol, but they don't have anything to say after every ride either.

Badger6

Interesting...this means they are no longer paying licensing fees. I wonder what this will mean for future device pricing.

Badger6

Vertical (and horizontal) integration of the Garmin system is a feature. And the data it uses is not random, and it will return VO2Max estimates and FTP updates, without a specified FTP test being performed, if a ride meets certain criteria...same as their multi-sport watches will do when running. There is also the ability to perform structured FTP tests as well. The device also calculates LTHR (as mentioned above based on HRV, thus the necessity for a HRM strap). While there are platforms out there for doing data analysis, they don't provide the kind of feedback that Garmin does. My reference to TrainingPeaks is more to do with their ability to build a long term training program.

Badger6

I never suggested it wasn't anecdotal. I'm also very familiar with that post from Ray, and I'd also add that he has continued to review Garmin products, very fairly I might add. But, also, it is time honored tradition of the internet and crowdsourcing reviews that negative reviews have long lives, and positive reviews never get written. (I am exaggerating a bit, but not by much.) I'll also note that part of my success with Garmin products has been a willingness to troubleshoot software issues, something it seems many (but clearly not all) complainers about Garmin don't seem to be able or willing to do.

Seattle Forrest

Hopefully older devices getting more new training features longer. Other than the batteries, the hardware lasts forever, it's really only the software that makes the device obsolete. But prices never ratchet down, we'll probably see other improvements to justify the $$. Like some of the watches have solar chargers now, it won't be long until that trickles down to the Edge units.

mwatt65 

I saw the Garmin 530 Edge on sale for $249.99 I figured that's all I need. Thank you for all the help.

PedalCell

Agree 100% with the battery comparison. Garmin's quoted battery life figures become moot when you actually use the device with tracking, screen brightness, etc. When compared apples-to-apples, I'm sure the Garmin beats the K2 due to its less power-hungry screen, but not by much. IMO the K2 likely gets worse battery life on average, not because of its lower power efficiency but because the riders respectively use the K2's power-hungry features more often than Garmin's.

Seattle Forrest

I get 54 hours on a charge from my Garmin, using 1 second recording, connected to a phone, power meter, heart strap, Di2, speed sensor, Varia radar, and a Tempe. Less though if I use the map page.

jeneralist 

Let me bring up a slightly different use case: touring. I'm not much interested in metrics on how fit I'm getting, VO2 max and lactate don't matter at all. Elevation matters, heart rate doesn't. I want to be able to follow a route someone else recommended to me; I want to be able to find the bike-friendly routes from Point A to Point B somewhere where I haven't been before; and if it could highlight places to eat or pee or sleep along the way, so much the better.

I've had the experience of touring several hundred miles away from home and finding the bike path I had intended to follow closed for construction, and needed to divert onto city streets to get to my destination 40 miles away before the thunderstorm came. Tools that would help in that situation would really be helpful to me.

Iride01 

There are some models of cycling computers that are more geared.... ever so slightly to touring use. But even with my nuvi, drive smarts or any other device I've had the things you are asking for are really hard to implement in an easy interface with the user. So they take up a lot of user interaction to implement with touch screen or button pushes.

When I get in those situations in the car driving, I just pick up my phone and with my voice, ask google maps where is the nearest restaurant or where is the nearest restroom. Then I can use it's directions to get me there.