Epicus07

Does anyone have a source for replacement springs?

Anyone using these with thumb mounts ? It doesn’t look like the shifter cable exit lines up with the housing stop on the mount. I’m not sure if I can swap washers with dia compe or something to get things to line up.

thanks !

ehcoplex 

Wayne Bingham (veloclassique@gmail.com) has replacement springs for a fair price (or at least he did earlier in the year....seems inevitable that sooner or later the supply will dry up!).

Bianchigirll 

The clamp or mount woukd have to look like a shifter boss with the square base as I believe the spring anchors on the back plate and that needs the boss to keep it from turning

Chombi1 

There are a few French, long term sellers in eBay that sell all sorts of NOS springs and other small replacement parts for Simplex and other French components, and for reasonable prices.Sometimes the descriptions are a bit cryptic, but if you have at least one spring to visually compare to pics posted on eBay, you should be able to spot ones that matches.

JohnDThompson 

Perhaps this can help:

bulgie 

Funny that they don't give a part number for just the clutch-thingie (the "spring"). But I was able to get just the clutch/spring things from Wayne. He made me buy pairs even though I only needed rights, but that's completely understandable. I wouldn't have wanted to stick him with extra lefts he couldn't sell. Seems to always be the right that breaks, no? Tho if you need a left, I guess I have a couple extras now, PM me.

Mark B

sbarner 

I never realized the clamp-on and braze-on versions were so different. I wonder if the same was true of the later version with the smooth, loop levers. I have both on different bikes, so I'll have to check it out sometime.

bark_eater 

Are the springs the same, but swapped left for right?

Bianchigirll 

according to bulgie’s post they are left and right.

bark_eater 

Looking at the diagram, I thought the the springs look "reversed" between the braze on and band on shifters. Looking again, t it appears that the clamp on uses 2 "left" springs.

oneclick 

I think you have spotted a graphological mistake.

Print is not infallible; even JB's first edition had a typo.

ehcoplex 

Yup- having fairly recently replaced broken springs on both clamp-on and braze-on versions, there are left & right-side springs for both (& the springs are the same for both types of levers).

Charles Wahl

The "wind" direction of springs for the clamp-on and braze-on types seems to be reversed with respect to each other. Also, it looks like the spur hanging out is on the outside of the right lever for the clamp-on, while all the other three have it oriented toward the inside. But for both types, there appears to be both a right and a left wind. Weird, but without a doubt the best shifter I've ever used. I have a few of the clamp-on sets -- maybe I'll dig one out and check to see if that right lever spring is as shown in the diagram. But not today.

masi61

Dumb question, but how do the springs on Mavic Retrofrictions become broke in the first place?

JulesCW 

Age, use, and wear = fatigue -> breakage. It's the cycle of life!

bulgie 

My guess is incorrect heat treatment or they just chose the wrong steel for the application. Wire that size and so lightly loaded, these could have been made to last forever. In my somewhat ignorant opinion!

They aren't really springs, or at least not like normal springs. They do spring open and closed, but only a tiny bit, like a couple thousandths of an inch (wild guess, not measured). In one direction they tighten on the inner barrel to get traction, in the other direction they open slightly and slip.

Properly made, they would've lasted until the heat death of the universe.

Shimano "Finger Tip" shifters had a true spring in them that balanced the spring in the derailer, allowing the friction to be set to near zero. Those springs have to wind up and wind down a lot more than Simplex retrofriction clutch does (at least a hundred times more I bet), but I have never heard of a Finger Tip spring breaking. And I used them heavily from the '70s thru the '90s, still have a bike with one. They are underappreciated IMHO, probably because few bike mechanics knew how to adjust them, so they were adjusted wrong close to 100% of the time. Properly adjusted, they have even less friction than a Simplex retro.

Mark B

Andy Antipas 

Hey Mark, Happy Holidays!

I have had a left spring break on one of my pairs of retrofriction levers..... I have bought replacements from Wayne as well. I think I have 5 bikes with retroflection shifters now.... I like them. Campy's version (doppler?) that came out in the late 80's works pretty well too. I would say maybe a little lighter touch than the Simplex. I have never tried the Shimano shifters you refer to.

bulgie 

Velobase has photos here including one disassembled to show the spring. Note how the clutch on the Simplex has a "tail" or anchor at one end only, with the other end just floating. The Shimano spring has bent-up tails at both ends, indicating that it's actually being used as a spring, not just a clutch.

I think there was a DT version but it's rare. Mostly seen on bar-ends, with a few stem shifters also out there.

Here's one I lightened for Laurie's superlight road bike, next to an unmodified one. You can't see in the pic but the steel centerbolt with the cone to tighten in the handlebar has been considerably lightened too. I forget the weight savings, relatively insignificant compared to the whole-bike weight, but all the little savings add up...


But, back to Simplex! I found this asploded diagram of the newer style, and it does have part numbers for the spring/clutch.



Maybe obvious (to those paying attention anyway!), but they split up the DT left and right shifters, putting them above and below the clamp-on parts for some reason. Wacky.

Note how the clamp-on bands came in three diameters. In theory anyway. I'm guessing the 25.4 mm variant is pretty damn rare.

Mark B

Andy Antipas 

------------------------

Thanks Mark. I will have to keep my eye out for a pair of the shimano shifters so I can give them a try. Variety, as they say, is the spice of life! As for our Wacky friends at Simplex, they always seem to answer to a different drummer, and for the record I havet 6 bikes with Super LJ derailleurs. They shift pretty well, but they aren't as intuitive when taking them apart as are Italian friends at Campagnolo... I'm currently putting a Vitus 979 together, and I'm using what I believe is an LJ4000 rear derailleur. I rebuilt most of it but for the upper sprung pivot, which I'm not sure if I can take it apart? I need to find an exploded view of that derailleur. Plus, setting the spring tension for the lower pivot is a bit hit and miss as far as I can tell?

Chombi1 

IIRC, The ends of the springs that stick put might be clocked different between the earlier versions (solid lever ends) of the shifter and the later version with the perforated loop lever ends. Best to compare pics of the lever springs you are thinking of buying and the spring you are replacing.

bulgie 

Maybe, but I don't think so. I think clocking doesn't matter. Neither the position of the head nor the tail. It's only the number of wraps around the hub, the tightness of the fit between them, the stiffness and slipperiness of the spring, lubed versus dry... maybe more variables matter too. But not the clocking position.

But I can't prove it, haven't done the experiment to find out. Anyone here know for sure? Maybe Wayne Bingham, who's been selling replacement springs — he would have heard about it by now, right? If the ones he sells only work in one type of lever? And if he knows that, then he would have asked me, when I ordered springs, "which kind, old or new style levers?"

Can't argue with that. It can't hurt, and might help. But my money is on "same springs work in both new and old style levers".

Mark B

ehcoplex 

I've replaced the springs in first-gen* clamp on, second-gen clamp on and later, smooth loop-style braze on levers. Same springs for all of them. First gen have a slotted barrel on the bottom that holds the spring tab-


Later versions have the slot in the lever body at the 'top side' of the pivot point-


..... so the spring is rotated 180 degrees from how it's oriented on the earlier ones.

*I'm assuming 3 basic 'generations'- S-star with the tiny barrel-stop, S-star without the barrel-stop and the smooth loop-style. Then there are the bar-end versions too, of course.

JulesCW 

Regarding your thumb mount question -- a fellow over on the iBob Google group posted this photo and this comment: " DT levers can also be shoehorned into a Shimano bar end pod with a little judicious filing of the pod's orientation tab when you can't find a hen's tooth of a bar end."

rccardr 

Wayne at Velo Classique also offers a complete rebuild service. He says it can be more difficult than it looks to get everything working optimally.

Epicus07

Thanks everyone !

Great information. I’ll look into getting some replacement springs from Wayne.

this really surprises me considering how simple the mechanism looks.