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Looking to ''upgrade'' my Giant TCR for a BMC Teammachine - Convince me?

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Looking to ''upgrade'' my Giant TCR for a BMC Teammachine - Convince me?

Old 10-24-22, 07:18 AM
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eduskator
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Looking to ''upgrade'' my Giant TCR for a BMC Teammachine - Convince me?

Thread title says it all. I've been looking to cheat on Giant for a while now (last 6 bikes I've bought are Giant) and my eyes have been on a BMC Teammachine SLR01 Three since this summer.

PROS. Main reasons why I would upgrade my current TCR Pro 0 are:

1) Internal cable routing
2) R8100 groupset
3) Deeper rims (50mms would be a sweet spot for me).

CONS

1) Price (all Giant owners will agree that it's hard to justify the extra cost). The Teammachine's MSRP is twice the TCR's where I live, but I can get the former for 20% off from a close-by LBS.
2) No power meter (at that price tag, what the?)
3) Not tubeless / hookless setup. However, it seems like all DT Swiss wheels are TL compatible and I would need to upgrade the tires for 28mms anyways.

Any thoughts / opinions? I know both bikes shouldn't probably be compared as one is a luxury bike while the other one is the ''bike of the people'', but anyways.
​​​​
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Old 10-24-22, 07:24 AM
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For me those cons would easily outweigh the pros. But bike purchases like this are rarely based on hard logic! I can certainly see why you might want a change from your last 6 Giants, but BMC would not be my personal choice. Nice looking bikes, but always seem grossly over-priced and reviews are mixed (haven't ridden one though).
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Old 10-24-22, 07:43 AM
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I do have the same feeling. Expensive for what you seem to be getting. It's the only brand that would be able to get me out of Giant for now though. I just ''like'' it.

And, indeed, purchasing a bike that pricey is rarely rational. For now, I will be waiting to see if there will be additional rebates on the bike in the upcoming weeks. It's been in stock for a few months now and it seems to be picking up the dust at the LBS. Perhaps they'll want to get rid of it before Christmas

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Old 10-24-22, 08:06 AM
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Skipping any discussion of rationality, because that is for you to have with a qualified professional, not BF.

1) Ultegra 8100 Di2 is legitimately the best shifting drivetrain I've ever ridden. The synchro shifting is fast and precise. Massive improvement over the prior generation 11-speed drivetrain.
2) While the ARC1650 branding of the wheels is NOT on DT Swiss' website, they look like ARC 1400. If they are, they are absolutely TL ready and will almost certainly be taped from the factory, juts slap a TL valve stem on, mount the tires and go.
3) PMs are easily sourced these days...
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Old 10-24-22, 08:19 AM
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Is your Giant disappointing you in any specific ways? Is it holding you back?

I'm also curious about this: what is the time span over which you've bought six Giant bikes? Are they all road bikes?
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Old 10-24-22, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Is your Giant disappointing you in any specific ways? Is it holding you back?

I'm also curious about this: what is the time span over which you've bought six Giant bikes? Are they all road bikes?
Aside from the fact that I'd like a more aero bike to enhance performance on flatter terrains, everything else is OK. I've always been a climber, but over the last 2 seasons, I started to like flatter and faster rides.

Not all road bikes. They're a mix of road, gravel and MTBs.

Originally Posted by Badger6 View Post
Skipping any discussion of rationality, because that is for you to have with a qualified professional, not BF.

1) Ultegra 8100 Di2 is legitimately the best shifting drivetrain I've ever ridden. The synchro shifting is fast and precise. Massive improvement over the prior generation 11-speed drivetrain.
2) While the ARC1650 branding of the wheels is NOT on DT Swiss' website, they look like ARC 1400. If they are, they are absolutely TL ready and will almost certainly be taped from the factory, juts slap a TL valve stem on, mount the tires and go.
3) PMs are easily sourced these days...
Yep - I believe they are ARC 1400, but renamed and sold specifically for BMCs.

Thanks for the feedback on the R8100. For the PM, there are indeed interesting choices, but I was amazed to see that the BMC didn't come equipped with one at a 12 599$ CND price tag.

Last edited by eduskator; 10-24-22 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 10-24-22, 08:24 AM
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Could you upgrade to a Giant that has what you're looking for? It might be cheaper than the BMC.
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Old 10-24-22, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Could you upgrade to a Giant that has what you're looking for? It might be cheaper than the BMC.
The new 2023 Propel might be close to what I'm looking for, but I think I'm ready to try another brand
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Old 10-24-22, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
Internal cable routing​​​​
Internal cable routing is only a "PRO" until you need to service the bike.

I get the appeal, I would love a bike with fully internal cable routing. They look so clean, they actually stay clean (and/or are easier to clean), and if you are a professional racer you can maybe take advantage of the extra 0.0013 watts due to the aerodynamic advantage they potentially offer.

But I have never met a bike mechanic (or experienced home hobbyist who does their own work) who doesn't shake their head and curse under their breath when it comes time to tune up or maintain a bike with internal cable routing. Not once.
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Old 10-24-22, 08:33 AM
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Lot's of brands out there. It sounds like you have your heart set on only one, though.
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Old 10-24-22, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
Aside from the fact that I'd like a more aero bike to enhance performance on flatter terrains, everything else is OK. I've always been a climber, but over the last 2 seasons, I started to like flatter and faster rides.
No one can tell you how to spend your money. Well, scratch that -- plenty of people will try, but you are the best judge of your budget and preferences. If you've got money to burn, and you really want to be a handful of seconds faster on a flatter ride, then buy the new bike. But since you asked for thoughts and opinions, I'll just share this: I would never spend that kind of money for such slight gains, especially since I no longer do road racing.
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Old 10-24-22, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
Internal cable routing is only a "PRO" until you need to service the bike.

I get the appeal, I would love a bike with fully internal cable routing. They look so clean, they actually stay clean (and/or are easier to clean), and if you are a professional racer you can maybe take advantage of the extra 0.0013 watts due to the aerodynamic advantage they potentially offer.

But I have never met a bike mechanic (or experienced home hobbyist who does their own work) who doesn't shake their head and curse under their breath when it comes time to tune up or maintain a bike with internal cable routing. Not once.
I heard that one in the past from my Giant LBS - they hated servicing ICR bikes for this reason. It seems to be better nowadays with wireless groupsets though. There's only 2 brake lines inside the headtube and these aren't serviced at all unless something breaks.
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Old 10-24-22, 09:08 AM
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The BMC only comes in black? For that kind of coin, it needs some color options.

There's you a check in the cons column.
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Old 10-24-22, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
Thread title says it all. I've been looking to cheat on Giant for a while now (last 6 bikes I've bought are Giant) and my eyes have been on a BMC Teammachine SLR01 Three since this summer.

PROS. Main reasons why I would upgrade my current TCR Pro 0 are:

1) Internal cable routing
2) R8100 groupset
3) Deeper rims (50mms would be a sweet spot for me).

CONS

1) Price (all Giant owners will agree that it's hard to justify the extra cost). The Teammachine's MSRP is twice the TCR's where I live, but I can get the former for 20% off from a close-by LBS.
2) No power meter (at that price tag, what the?)
3) Not tubeless / hookless setup. However, it seems like all DT Swiss wheels are TL compatible and I would need to upgrade the tires for 28mms anyways.

Any thoughts / opinions? I know both bikes shouldn't probably be compared as one is a luxury bike while the other one is the ''bike of the people'', but anyways.
​​​​
I recently got a BMC Roadmachine and love it. That specific Teammachine you are looking at is one SEXY bike. I was very tempted by it when I saw it at my local LBS. It just looks fast standing still. I know, that is an emotional statement but IMO all bike purchases should be emotional. My Roadmachine has the new Ultegra on it as well, and I will say that it's the best shifting groupset I have ever used (and I've used most iterations of Campy Record and Shimano Dura Ace in the past). I say go for it!
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Old 10-24-22, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
Internal cable routing is only a "PRO" until you need to service the bike….But I have never met a bike mechanic (or experienced home hobbyist who does their own work) who doesn't shake their head and curse under their breath when it comes time to tune up or maintain a bike with internal cable routing. Not once.
You cannot be serious. On the second bit, I can bet there are a few home hobbyists who have no idea how to work on their bikes, even if the cables are exposed…but a mechanic, aka a person who gets paid to work on bikes? If they can’t figure it out, they need to consider a different line of work.
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Old 10-24-22, 04:40 PM
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I’m not a big fan of internal routing. It looks nice but can be a PITA to change cables in the future. Plus rattling in the frame can be an issue.


I like my bikes to be easy to service and get replacement parts for. But that’s just me.

Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
Thread title says it all. I've been looking to cheat on Giant for a while now (last 6 bikes I've bought are Giant) and my eyes have been on a BMC Teammachine SLR01 Three since this summer.

PROS. Main reasons why I would upgrade my current TCR Pro 0 are:

1) Internal cable routing
2) R8100 groupset
3) Deeper rims (50mms would be a sweet spot for me).

CONS

1) Price (all Giant owners will agree that it's hard to justify the extra cost). The Teammachine's MSRP is twice the TCR's where I live, but I can get the former for 20% off from a close-by LBS.
2) No power meter (at that price tag, what the?)
3) Not tubeless / hookless setup. However, it seems like all DT Swiss wheels are TL compatible and I would need to upgrade the tires for 28mms anyways.

Any thoughts / opinions? I know both bikes shouldn't probably be compared as one is a luxury bike while the other one is the ''bike of the people'', but anyways.
​​​​
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Old 10-24-22, 04:45 PM
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Tried adding aero bars?

They made a surprising difference in speed in wind and/or flat sections for me. Probably a bigger watts saving than improving aero on a bike I suspect.
Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
Aside from the fact that I'd like a more aero bike to enhance performance on flatter terrains, everything else is OK. I've always been a climber, but over the last 2 seasons, I started to like flatter and faster rides.

Not all road bikes. They're a mix of road, gravel and MTBs.



Yep - I believe they are ARC 1400, but renamed and sold specifically for BMCs.

Thanks for the feedback on the R8100. For the PM, there are indeed interesting choices, but I was amazed to see that the BMC didn't come equipped with one at a 12 599$ CND price tag.
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Old 10-24-22, 06:12 PM
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A new, expensive bike should have two brake hoses inside the frame, but no cables. I have two new frames with internal brake hoses and SRAM AXS with no cables or wires. There's enough excess hose to replace either brake caliper, so hose replacement should be far down the road. Changing hoses through integrated bar/stems is a pain, but not often needed. It may even be possible to use an old hose to pull in a new one.

Potential buyers need to get out of their rut and consider building a bike with all components personally selected. Don't get tricked into paying thousands more for a little lighter frame and over priced wheels.

​​​​I compared the weight of a team machine frame/post/cockpit to my $1215 Yoeleo R12. Its about 300 frames lighter, which is a half full water bottle. I also notice limited bar/stem options. The total bar+ stem reach is short and the bars too wide for my taste. I use 38cm at the hoods and 190mm total reach. I'm short torsoed too.

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Old 10-24-22, 06:36 PM
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The BMC Teammachine is a great looking bike. I don’t have any experience with BMC, but they’ve made a few bikes over the years that I wanted to try but could never pull the trigger on. You’ve had 6 Giants - switch it up and get the BMC!
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Old 10-24-22, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
I do have the same feeling. Expensive for what you seem to be getting. It's the only brand that would be able to get me out of Giant for now though. I just ''like'' it.
Just "liking" it is good enough in this case. No point in trying to rationalise something that is inherently irrational!
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Old 10-24-22, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Badger6 View Post
but a mechanic, aka a person who gets paid to work on bikes? If they can’t figure it out, they need to consider a different line of work.
I didn't mean that they can't figure it out, I meant that they don't like working on them. Big difference.
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Old 10-24-22, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
I didn't mean that they can't figure it out, I meant that they don't like working on them. Big difference.
Internal cabling through handlebar, stem, and head tube definitely sucks for the mechanics who charge per job rather than by the hour. No matter how good one is, that setup just takes longer to assemble or adjust.

As a tinkerer shopping for my first disc brake bike, I would happily accept a few inches of exposed hydraulic tubing and Di2 wiring to bypass the stem and a lumen within the head tube. Internal cabling within the handlebar, downtube, and chain stays is good enough for me. I would take convenience of reassembly and adjustment over the 0.25W advantage.
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Old 10-25-22, 01:17 AM
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Fellas, to each their own...yes, internal routing of the cabling and hoses up through the headset and in the handlebar takes a little extra time to set up and adjust than if the hoses and cables are exposed in those places. But, how often is someone fiddling with the brake hoses and wires up around the cockpit? Of the things about bikes that frustrate me...wait, there's nothing about bikes that frustrate me.

I say this is really much ado about nothing. eduskator, get the BMC if it inspires something in you. The bike looks fast, and it'll be a joy to ride. That's all the rationale you need!
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Old 10-25-22, 03:17 AM
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TCR tests surprisingly fast in the wind tunnel, Giants are not known to have trouble given the volumes sold and actually manufacture bikes for a whole lot of bike brands, being one of the biggest bike makers in the world. You see, Giant isn’t purely a bike brand, it is a bike manufacturer.

BMC has had mixed reviews quality wise.

Would go for a Giant myself.
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Old 10-25-22, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Badger6 View Post
Fellas, to each their own...yes, internal routing of the cabling and hoses up through the headset and in the handlebar takes a little extra time to set up and adjust than if the hoses and cables are exposed in those places. But, how often is someone fiddling with the brake hoses and wires up around the cockpit? Of the things about bikes that frustrate me...wait, there's nothing about bikes that frustrate me.

I say this is really much ado about nothing. eduskator, get the BMC if it inspires something in you. The bike looks fast, and it'll be a joy to ride. That's all the rationale you need!


I can understand it may be hard to fit 4 wires/cables inside a fork tube, but with wireless shifting, it should be a lot better. I mean, 2 brake hoses that do not require maintenance at all (unless there is a crash and they break)?

Originally Posted by Branko D View Post
TCR tests surprisingly fast in the wind tunnel, Giants are not known to have trouble given the volumes sold and actually manufacture bikes for a whole lot of bike brands, being one of the biggest bike makers in the world. You see, Giant isn’t purely a bike brand, it is a bike manufacturer.

BMC has had mixed reviews quality wise.

Would go for a Giant myself.
Yep - it's hard to buy something else when you had quality at a great price but sometimes you still need a change! I may stay with Giant once I see the 2023 Propel in person. I also hope they'll put internal cable routing on their high-end TCRs at some point.

Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
Internal cabling through handlebar, stem, and head tube definitely sucks for the mechanics who charge per job rather than by the hour. No matter how good one is, that setup just takes longer to assemble or adjust.

As a tinkerer shopping for my first disc brake bike, I would happily accept a few inches of exposed hydraulic tubing and Di2 wiring to bypass the stem and a lumen within the head tube. Internal cabling within the handlebar, downtube, and chain stays is good enough for me. I would take convenience of reassembly and adjustment over the 0.25W advantage.
I think it's more of an appearance thing rather than a power saving feature (well, for me at that price tag at least). It just looks a lot cleaner IMO. Just like our stems slammed to the ground, right?
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