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1969 Paramount questions and build thread

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1969 Paramount questions and build thread

Old 10-29-22, 07:05 PM
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1969 Paramount questions and build thread

I picked this up earlier this week after seeing it on the eBay CL thread. It was advertised as an early 70ís paramount.

serial number of K942. Based on the Waterford guide I think itís from October of 1969. Am i interpreting this correctly or could it be something else?

Would this have come with Nouvo Tipo hubs and 27Ē Fiamme rims?

is there a way to tell what model Paramount this is?




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Old 10-29-22, 07:35 PM
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-----

congratulations on the new arrival...looking good...luv the colour

have never heard of any model of Paramount of any year coming with NT hubs or FIAMME wired-on rims

the curved lever QR skewers that are in there did not exist in 1969

pedals are Sheffield Nr. 655 which also came on no Paramount of any year

that pesky Acer-Mex has now taken the place of the Guerc as an explosives specialist


-----
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Old 10-29-22, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

congratulations on the new arrival...looking good...luv the colour

have never heard of any model of Paramount of any year coming with NT hubs or FIAMME wired-on rims

the curved lever QR skewers that are in there did not exist in 1969

pedals are Sheffield Nr. 655 which also came on no Paramount of any year

that pesky Acer-Mex has now taken the place of the Guerc as an explosives specialist


-----
Unfortunately the colt is a really bad rattle can job. So itíll have to go. But that does give me a clean slate to work with.

I figured the NT hubs didnít belong, but they are close to period correct (as opposed to the cyclone RD).

Iím thinking only the top tube cable clamps, headset, bottom bracket and crank arms are original.

Iím going to try some 700c wheels with HF NR hubs I have. It feels like it should be a full NR build. Iíll finish up a quick build from supplies on hand as I figure out what to do long term.

Iím going to have to talk to the bikes. This photo bombing is getting ridiculous.
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Old 10-30-22, 05:59 AM
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The different lugs (begin with a Pr.....) point to 1969 as the correct date. P-13 is most likely the model number.
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Old 10-30-22, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh View Post
The different lugs (begin with a Pr.....) point to 1969 as the correct date. P-13 is most likely the model number.
-----



lug pattern is Prugnat 62/s

employed on Paramount 1967-71


-----

Last edited by juvela; 10-30-22 at 11:15 AM. Reason: addition
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Old 10-30-22, 06:25 AM
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Really nice find. I am curious to see what you do with it. I like the idea of a full NR build , in particular the wheel/ hub choice. From what I have seen , these earlier Paramounts were sometimes built up with a mix of components . Maybe folks would change them up somewhere after purchase. Also, how did the ride go on that orange bike?
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Old 10-30-22, 06:43 AM
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Regarding the rear derailleur, you'll have to weigh function against form. As the owner of several specimens of each, I can easily vouch for SunTour slant planograph derailleurs as out-shifting their NR counterparts. Having said that, I have retained the OEM NR derailleurs on my Bianchi, just because they look right and do the job reasonably well.
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Old 10-30-22, 06:52 AM
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Very nice find. I have a '68 Schwinn Paramount that I have not yet rebuilt but it did come to me with the original parts. It was set up as a tourist though with flat bars.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...paramount.html
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Old 10-30-22, 03:56 PM
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So I did a wick build from the parts bin. The handlebars are 38ís and Cinelli criteriums (the last set of drop bars I have). The bars will need to be replaced but they allowed me to do a short ride.

I put some wheels NR HF hubs and some clincher rigida rims. The brake reach is borderline but works. Iíll file the slots later.

The rest of the build is NR except for the SR RD.

Iíll need to ride it a lot more but first impressions were great.


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Old 10-30-22, 04:01 PM
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-----



ride - would expect it to be somewhat more forgiving than the A-M

frame might be a few grams lighter as well...


-----
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Old 10-30-22, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----



ride - would expect it to be somewhat more forgiving than the A-M

frame might be a few grams lighter as well...


-----
Yes, very different rides. To compound the differences the Windsor is on my limit on the small size and the Paramount is right at my top end. In addition I had my lightest racing wheels (with high end Vitoria tubulars) on the Windsor and did the test ride on the paramount with the Nouvo Tipo wheelset with non racing tires. I have the NR wheels on now with GP 5000 tires. Iím hoping to get a ride in this week around work and travel.
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Old 10-30-22, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----



ride - would expect it to be somewhat more forgiving than the A-M

frame might be a few grams lighter as well...


-----
Yes, very different rides. To compound the differences the Windsor is on my limit on the small size and the Paramount is right at my top end. In addition I had my lightest racing wheels (with high end Vitoria tubulars) on the Windsor and did the test ride on the paramount with the Nouvo Tipo wheelset with non racing tires. I have the NR wheels on now with GP 5000 tires. Iím hoping to get a ride in this week around work and travel.
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Old 10-31-22, 10:14 AM
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Beautiful.
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Old 11-19-22, 09:29 PM
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I'm working on the next iteration of the build. I'd like to build it up to pretty close to what it would have been back in '69. I have some 3TTT 40's on it (pulled off the Windsor I posted before), much better! I'm hoping to replace the SR RD with a NR and start working on polishing the crank. I'm thinking of a half-step, with the cranks and chainrings polished. I'll also be switching out the brake calipers to NR this week.

As I was working in the garage today I noticed the seat clamp was pretty "pinched" and measured the seat post. It came in as 26.8. I was thinking that this should be 27.2. Can anyone with a similar era Paramount let me know their seat post size? I know I can "try" a 27.0 and a 27.2 but it seems better to know the right size before I try fitting the seat post.
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Old 11-19-22, 09:42 PM
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-----

yes to XXVII.II

see that you are now getting bombed by those pesky Tennessee Titans!



all best to our capnjonny


-----
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Old 11-19-22, 10:08 PM
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-----

build note -

forgot to mention above...

if you are going to go NR it would likely be best to go with Weinmann CP brakes

if you were going to go Campag you would have to go with "no names" to be correct which are big bucks

also you would definitely need a dropbolt for the rear...perhaps even a custom one

Cinelli 1A had launched by this date so that would be a stem/bar option if wished

bottom bracket assembly should be Record rather than NR

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Old 11-19-22, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

build note -

forgot to mention above...

if you are going to go NR it would likely be best to go with Weinmann CP brakes

if you were going to go Campag you would have to go with "no names" to be correct which are big bucks

also you would definitely need a dropbolt for the rear...perhaps even a custom one

Cinelli 1A had launched by this date so that would be a stem/bar option if wished

bottom bracket assembly should be Record rather than NR

-----
thanks @juvela. Thanks for providing the details for the ďend stateĒ. This is one that I will probably try to get there.

I do see it as a journey. My goal is to get it close and ride it. Then work toward the end state over time.
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Old 11-20-22, 12:26 AM
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No expert but the 72 my son has takes 27.2. also that suntour rear mech looks just fine to me. I have a Windsor pro and frame to frame the paramount is definitely lighter. Also with great clearance you have massive wheel and tire options. 700cx35 should fit easy but if course isn't necessary. That's a retirement bike. Just adjust the fit and riding position as you age!
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Old 11-20-22, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
No expert but the 72 my son has takes 27.2. also that suntour rear mech looks just fine to me. I have a Windsor pro and frame to frame the paramount is definitely lighter. Also with great clearance you have massive wheel and tire options. 700cx35 should fit easy but if course isn't necessary. That's a retirement bike. Just adjust the fit and riding position as you age!
Great analysis and commentary, couldn't agree more.
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Old 11-20-22, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Great analysis and commentary, couldn't agree more.
I'm recovering from the flu and jonesing for a ride.
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Old 11-20-22, 03:38 AM
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-----

build note addendum(b) -

stem/bar -

if you elect to go with 3TTT it would need to be Gran Prix as the Record did not launch until mid-'71

one option you may not have considered is Titan, they were original equipment on many Paramounts during the 1960's.

the Record front mech needs to be the first one without the housing stop; it is the generation which lacks the e-ring at the rear of the pivot post which keeps the cage assembly from working its way off the back of the post. of all the Record/NR front mech iterations this is probably the worst.

in case you elect to build tubular wheels for it at some point the OEM tubular rims at this time were Weinmann wood-filled with the national colours stripes label.

have good fun!


-----
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Old 11-20-22, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
I'm recovering from the flu and jonesing for a ride.
Glad you're on the mend, I have no sense of humor about this, scary stuff now days.
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Old 11-20-22, 08:18 AM
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'69 sounds right based on the head lugs, but wouldn't a '69 model originally have had cable guides brazed on the top tube for the rear brake cable?
I thought that those didn't go away on the P13 until ca. '72-'73 when the P13 was revamped and the old P13 became the P10.
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Old 11-20-22, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Sierra View Post
'69 sounds right based on the head lugs, but wouldn't a '69 model originally have had cable guides brazed on the top tube for the rear brake cable?
I thought that those didn't go away on the P13 until ca. '72-'73 when the P13 was revamped and the old P13 became the P10.
-----

keep in mind they could be ordered however the customer wanted them

possible this example may be a bespoke one


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Old 11-20-22, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Sierra View Post
'69 sounds right based on the head lugs, but wouldn't a '69 model originally have had cable guides brazed on the top tube for the rear brake cable?
I thought that those didn't go away on the P13 until ca. '72-'73 when the P13 was revamped and the old P13 became the P10.
To add a data point, my March 1971 P13 lacks the brazed-on cable guides and uses the 27.2mm seat post. The '66 P13 I did own also had a 27.2mm seat-post, and cable guides brazed on.
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