Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Bike frame material rankings!

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Bike frame material rankings!

Old 11-04-22, 05:30 AM
  #76  
datlas 
Should Be More Popular
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 42,952

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 560 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22507 Post(s)
Liked 8,829 Times in 4,110 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Waiting on a CF version of these

I wonder how that rides....I am guessing the BB is not very stiff. Any info??
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is online now  
Old 11-04-22, 05:38 AM
  #77  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,164
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4271 Post(s)
Liked 4,707 Times in 2,907 Posts
Originally Posted by Branko D
There's stiff racing CF bikes with an aggressive geometry and there's comfortable CF endurance bikes.

I've ridden a Specialized Ruby (the women's version of the Roubaix, now discontinued), over some broken roads, it's a magic carpet like ride with wide tires at low pressure and the flexy seatpost and the future shock suspension. I don't need it, but if I did, it'd be my pick.
That's the thing with carbon, the layup is pretty much infinitely adjustable to target specific stiffness/compliance in specific areas of the frame that would be very difficult or simply impossible to achieve with metal tubing. For the frame designer it both broadens the limits (at both ends of the stiffness spectrum) and the resolution (ability to both fine tune and localise stiffness characteristics). Coming from a cutting edge motorsport engineering background I've lived through the transition from metal fabrications to carbon composites and the latter opened up a whole new world. I think the bike industry has matured hugely in its use of carbon composite tech over the last decade. Carbon frame layups are now pretty sophisticated and similar to what I was seeing in motorsport a decade earlier.
PeteHski is online now  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 11-04-22, 06:00 AM
  #78  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,611

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4717 Post(s)
Liked 1,526 Times in 997 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas
I wonder how that rides....I am guessing the BB is not very stiff. Any info??
Here's a bit that I've come across. I'd love to try this bike

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/11/bike...aris-galibier/

Dave Moulton's Blog - Dave Moulton's Bike Blog - The Paris Galibier
Sy Reene is offline  
Old 11-04-22, 06:02 AM
  #79  
datlas 
Should Be More Popular
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 42,952

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 560 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22507 Post(s)
Liked 8,829 Times in 4,110 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene
I would be interested in trying it, but I would also have very LOW expectations for anything positive compared to a regular frame.
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is online now  
Old 11-04-22, 06:53 AM
  #80  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,164
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4271 Post(s)
Liked 4,707 Times in 2,907 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas
I would be interested in trying it, but I would also have very LOW expectations for anything positive compared to a regular frame.
As a mechanical engineer it just doesn't interest me. The offset seat-tube looks particularly hideous.
PeteHski is online now  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 11-04-22, 07:20 AM
  #81  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,755
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3190 Post(s)
Liked 2,460 Times in 1,489 Posts
The design of the 2023 Trek Madone's not looking like an original design now. They just moved the junction up higher.

If you read the cyclingtips link in post 78 they talk about a connection to Condor Cycles. I actually have a 1972 Condor that the PO/OO bought from the shop mentioned in the article.

Last edited by seypat; 11-04-22 at 07:47 AM.
seypat is offline  
Old 11-04-22, 07:21 AM
  #82  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2332 Post(s)
Liked 2,094 Times in 1,311 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
That design of the 2023 Trek Madone's not looking like an original design now. They just moved the junction up higher.

If you read the cyclingtips link in post 78 they talk about a connection to Condor Cycles. I actually have a 1972 Condor that the PO/OO bought from the shop mentioned in the article.
The new Madone junction looks like a Litigator's wet......you know what.
GhostRider62 is offline  
Likes For GhostRider62:
Old 11-04-22, 07:56 AM
  #83  
Branko D
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 338 Post(s)
Liked 408 Times in 252 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62
The new Madone junction looks like a Litigator's wet......you know what.
Yeah, the old Madone was a looker (especially some of the Project One with custom paint), this is... erm... yeah, not quite my cup of tea. It's not newest Bianchi super hideous, but not my cup of tea.
Branko D is offline  
Old 11-04-22, 06:01 PM
  #84  
bblair
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 722

Bikes: Lynskey R230, Trek 5200, 1975 Raleigh Pro, 1973 Falcon ,Trek T50 Tandem and a 1968 Paramount in progress.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked 372 Times in 224 Posts
Someone mentioned magnesium and I read about that a while back. What's the deal?

FWIW, my Ti bike is by far the most comfortable. My Carbon the least. But their geometries are vastly different. Has anyone make frames out of various materials all the same specs to test it out? I would doubt it, since many manufacturers make one or another.
bblair is offline  
Old 11-04-22, 06:32 PM
  #85  
Trakhak
Senior Member
 
Trakhak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,337
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2428 Post(s)
Liked 2,876 Times in 1,645 Posts
Originally Posted by bblair
Someone mentioned magnesium and I read about that a while back. What's the deal?

FWIW, my Ti bike is by far the most comfortable. My Carbon the least. But their geometries are vastly different. Has anyone make frames out of various materials all the same specs to test it out? I would doubt it, since many manufacturers make one or another.
Many here own a half-dozen or more bikes made of various materials and with various geometries. I've owned a few bikes with identical geometries that have had aluminum, steel, or carbon frames. Two of mine were short-wheelbase criterium geometry road bikes (one aluminum, one steel). The two rode more or less identically with respect to handling and "comfort" (not a word I'd apply to either bike).

The bikes with more conventional road bike geometry all rode like each other, too. I guess I'm not particularly prone to confirmation bias in this area, because the bike that's been my favorite one to ride for the last 15 years or so is a Specialized Langster fixed-gear bike. It has road geometry and an aluminum frame and straight-blade aluminum fork, both with "oversized" tubing.
Trakhak is online now  
Old 11-06-22, 07:59 PM
  #86  
Hiro11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,608

Bikes: 2022 Specialized Allez Sprint custom build, 2019 Giant Defy Advanced Pro 0, 2018 Seven Mudhoney Pro custom build, 2017 Raleigh Stuntman, various others

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 782 Post(s)
Liked 475 Times in 238 Posts
I've had good luck with most materials:

1. Aluminum: I suspect those who mention "aluminum harshness" have not ridden a modern aluminum bike. I have a brand new Allez Sprint custom build that is very smooth riding and fast as any race bike. Regardless, modern high volume/low pressure tubeless tires make a huge difference on any frame. Also, I have a fairly high end aluminum hardtail that I have absolutely abused for five years and it's still in great shape. Aluminum is plenty tough if engineered well.

2. Carbon: I have a 2019 carbon road bike that I have raced and ridden about 17k miles and it still looks essentially brand new. It also rides incredibly comfortably and fast. My cross bike is also carbon and it's been through lots of tough miles without issue. Carbon is hardly the brittle material some portray it as. I have beaten the crap out of a wide variety of carbon wheels without wheels. I suspect carbon is the least reliable in a crash, but I have no evidence one way or another. A bad crash will destroy any bike in my experience. Is carbon worth the huge price increase over aluminum? Maybe?

3. Steel frames are the toughest, most practical and most reliable in my experience. I own a Reynolds 631 adventure/gravel bike and that's the frame material to take into the wilderness. I also love that steel tolerates clamping forces well, take beautiful threads and isn't very reactive with dissimilar materials. I have never seen rust kill a steel frame. I used to race on steel back in the day, so I know it's not intrinsically "slow". I crashed that frame several times in low category races back in my teens and never had an issue. Steel is great stuff.

4. Titanium: great stuff. Doesn't rust, rides with a great springiness, lightweight, takes good threads, doesn't react to dissimilar materials, looks amazing with custom anodization. I still have two Ti bikes, a very mid-range racy road bike and a very fancy Ti/carbon road bike. Still... over the years I have had two titanium bikes from very reputable makers (Seven and Lynskey) fail at welds. I'm not sure how common this is, but in talking to mechanics I trust it's not uncommon for Ti bikes to have bad welds. In both cases, the manufacturer did the right thing... but I don't think Ti is quite the "forever bike" people portray it as. Barring that, Ti would probably be my favorite material for non-race bikes...
Hiro11 is offline  
Likes For Hiro11:
Old 11-07-22, 08:43 AM
  #87  
Bob Ross
your god hates me
 
Bob Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,579

Bikes: 2016 Richard Sachs, 2010 Carl Strong, 2006 Cannondale Synapse

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1232 Post(s)
Liked 1,241 Times in 689 Posts
Originally Posted by Hiro11
Titanium: great stuff. Doesn't rust, rides with a great springiness, lightweight, takes good threads, doesn't react to dissimilar materials
I suspect you meant "does react" ...ask anyone who forgot to use copius amounts of grease or anti-seize on their alloy seatpost in a titanium frame.
Bob Ross is offline  
Old 11-08-22, 12:21 AM
  #88  
LarrySellerz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,964
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2643 Post(s)
Liked 474 Times in 344 Posts
S tier - titanium
A tier - Fancy steel and nice carbon
B tier - Light aluminum and cheap carbon
c tier - crappy steel and cheap alluminum
LarrySellerz is offline  
Old 11-08-22, 05:35 AM
  #89  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,164
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4271 Post(s)
Liked 4,707 Times in 2,907 Posts
Titanium and high-end steel bikes are really a "lifestyle" choice, I'm guessing mostly attractive to older, traditional riders with a healthy budget and plenty of nostalgia.

More workhorse steel bikes are often the favoured weapon of choice for daily commuting, winter riding, touring etc.

Aluminium bikes are now the budget option for most uses, from full-on racing to daily pottering.

Carbon is both the competitive racer's choice and the choice of most reasonably affluent club riders and weekend warriors. A few of the older guys still ride steel/ti out of preference, but even most of the vets around here have discovered carbon or at least have both in their fleet.
PeteHski is online now  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 11-08-22, 07:42 AM
  #90  
ClydeClydeson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 580 Post(s)
Liked 921 Times in 518 Posts
Ranking:

Steel
Aluminium
Carbon Fiber
Titaniuim
(4-way tie for 1st)
ClydeClydeson is offline  
Old 11-08-22, 07:50 AM
  #91  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,755
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3190 Post(s)
Liked 2,460 Times in 1,489 Posts
I wonder what percentage of cyclists that do the local racing scene have dedicated race bikes/setups? If they do have dedicated race setups, what are they using for those? Most of the crits you can watch on Youtube are flat as a pancake. You see some 1X setups, but most are 2X with top end groups and full range cassettes. I guess you race what you ride during the week. Maybe the old saying "race what you can afford to replace" no longer applies.
seypat is offline  
Old 11-08-22, 08:23 AM
  #92  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,762
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6881 Post(s)
Liked 10,869 Times in 4,634 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
Titanium and high-end steel bikes are really a "lifestyle" choice, I'm guessing mostly attractive to older, traditional riders with a healthy budget and plenty of nostalgia.

More workhorse steel bikes are often the favoured weapon of choice for daily commuting, winter riding, touring etc.

Aluminium bikes are now the budget option for most uses, from full-on racing to daily pottering.

Carbon is both the competitive racer's choice and the choice of most reasonably affluent club riders and weekend warriors. A few of the older guys still ride steel/ti out of preference, but even most of the vets around here have discovered carbon or at least have both in their fleet.
Umm...sure. Okay.
Koyote is offline  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 11-08-22, 08:30 AM
  #93  
amazinmets73
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 382
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 19 Posts
Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
S tier - titanium
A tier - Fancy steel and nice carbon
B tier - Light aluminum and cheap carbon
c tier - crappy steel and cheap alluminum
Any titanium? So an $1,100 Motobecane titanium frame is better than an $8,000 Colnago carbon?
amazinmets73 is offline  
Likes For amazinmets73:
Old 11-08-22, 07:17 PM
  #94  
Rogerogeroge
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 355

Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR 9; Moots Routt YBB; Trek Fuel EX8+; LeMond Poprad

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 178 Post(s)
Liked 176 Times in 100 Posts
For sustainability bamboo wins.
Rogerogeroge is offline  
Old 11-09-22, 12:35 AM
  #95  
Camilo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1106 Post(s)
Liked 1,197 Times in 758 Posts
Please no.
Camilo is offline  
Old 11-09-22, 12:44 AM
  #96  
sean.hwy
Senior Member
 
sean.hwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,022

Bikes: Blur / Ibis Hakka MX / team machince alr2 / topstone 1

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 424 Post(s)
Liked 272 Times in 200 Posts
Carbon > everything else expect crash repair then steel wins out.
sean.hwy is offline  
Old 11-10-22, 02:41 AM
  #97  
Camilo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1106 Post(s)
Liked 1,197 Times in 758 Posts
The order is (spin the wheel and it will pick for you)
Carbon
Steel
Aluminum
Titanium
Steel
Aluminum
Titanium
Carbon
Aluminum
​​​​​​​Titanium
​​​​​​​Carbon
Steel
Titanium
​​​​​​​Carbon
Steel
Aluminum
Carbon
Steel
Aluminum
Titanium
Steel
Aluminum
​​​​​​​Titanium
Carbon
Aluminum
​​​​​​​Titanium
​​​​​​​Carbon
Steel
Titanium
​​​​​​​Carbon
Steel
​​​​​​​Aluminum
Carbon
Steel
Aluminum
Titanium
Steel
Aluminum
​​​​​​​Titanium
Carbon
Aluminum
​​​​​​​Titanium
​​​​​​​Carbon
Steel
Titanium
​​​​​​​Carbon
Steel
​​​​​​​Aluminum
Camilo is offline  
Old 11-10-22, 05:28 AM
  #98  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,755
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3190 Post(s)
Liked 2,460 Times in 1,489 Posts
Touring bikes are still made from steel, correct? There must be a reason for those bikes to not be made from CF.
seypat is offline  
Old 11-10-22, 10:37 AM
  #99  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,164
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4271 Post(s)
Liked 4,707 Times in 2,907 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
Touring bikes are still made from steel, correct? There must be a reason for those bikes to not be made from CF.
There are carbon touring bikes too. It's also a very conservative market and not focused on either aero or super low weight. So steel still makes a lot of sense for touring.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 11-10-22, 11:20 AM
  #100  
Branko D
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 338 Post(s)
Liked 408 Times in 252 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat
Touring bikes are still made from steel, correct? There must be a reason for those bikes to not be made from CF.
Yes, the touring bike market is retrogrouch heaven. Half of the touring internet sphere considers a saddle design from the 1900 to be the pinnacle of comfort. I tried it, too. Meh.

If you intend to race the intercontinental, it's generally a CF bike with a Tailfin CF rack.
Branko D is offline  
Likes For Branko D:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.