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Aero tuck vs pedal sprint downhill - Trying to improve a Strava segment

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Aero tuck vs pedal sprint downhill - Trying to improve a Strava segment

Old 01-21-22, 12:07 PM
  #51  
GhostRider62
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Originally Posted by jonathanf2
Fully hydrated I'm just under 150 lbs. On summer bike rides I can sweat out down to 140 lbs. in about 4 hours. I can also shred weight via carb cutting and send my body into ketosis which I've done before. At my height I have quite a bit of weight flexibility to drop down maybe another 20-25 pounds and still be considered healthy. I bike ride and power lift on my non-riding days. The only reason I haven't opted to cut more weight is due to my weight training, but I've been thinking of dedicating a few weeks to focus on becoming faster and lighter on my bike. People make it sound like it's impossible, but many athletes who compete in weight classes cut weight or shred prior to a competition.
I am quite familiar with ketosis and carb restrictions. Not too many bodybuilders shred 10 pounds each week even with special drugs. This is a caloric deficit of 5,500 kCals/day. That is a bucketload of energy to expend on TOP of your basal metabolic rate. Possible but this is like a RAAM level effort and just eating a normal diet. Could be done. I've only ridden some 1000+ mile weeks in a row and never lost 10 pounds per week and I'm 6'4''. I must be doing it wrong.
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Old 01-21-22, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
To be picky, he ejected because his plane was in an unrecoverable flat spin. He did not pass out.
love it, thank you!
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Old 01-21-22, 02:00 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
I am quite familiar with ketosis and carb restrictions. Not too many bodybuilders shred 10 pounds each week even with special drugs. This is a caloric deficit of 5,500 kCals/day. That is a bucketload of energy to expend on TOP of your basal metabolic rate. Possible but this is like a RAAM level effort and just eating a normal diet. Could be done. I've only ridden some 1000+ mile weeks in a row and never lost 10 pounds per week and I'm 6'4''. I must be doing it wrong.
Well if he's real and not faking, someone that cares that much likely has a bluetooth body scale logging to an app they could post up and show the data. I'm guessing.......we won't see that.
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Old 01-21-22, 03:33 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
I agree, if you're talking primarily about water weight. 10lbs of fat in a week? That would definitely not be nothing and would be damn near impossible.
I know somebody who lost 140 pounds in 3 weeks doing keto. Bad breath was a deal breaker for his wife.
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Old 01-21-22, 10:28 PM
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I did the downhill segment again, but this time around I purposely drafted a Prius, pedaled up to speed and went super aero tuck. Unfortunately the Prius was going a bit too slow and I wasn't able to get adequate room to slingshot me out of the draft forcing me to slow down. Even so I cut 4 seconds off my previous PR, while 4 mph slower with a top speed of 36mph. ​​I'm beginning to wonder if the leaderboard riders were doing something similar or using their riding buddies to gain speed?

Honestly I'm finding this whole effort to go faster on this mini segment to be a great learning experience in technique and riding strategy.
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Old 01-21-22, 11:02 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by jonathanf2
Unfortunately the Prius was going a bit too slow ...
Really!? How to chime in without totally derailing this thread?
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Old 01-22-22, 02:19 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
I know somebody who lost 140 pounds in 3 weeks doing keto. Bad breath was a deal breaker for his wife.
Absolutely not true.
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Old 01-22-22, 05:03 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
I'm aware of the math and I'm also aware that burning calories != burning fat. Exceptionally few people can operate at a 5k+ cal deficit 7 days in a row and those that can/do are almost certainly eating in to more than just their fat supply. I'll stand by my "damn near impossible," statement.
Right- with that kind of deficit you’re cannibalizing muscle.

even with a 3500 deficit over time, the fat loss eventually stops
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Old 01-22-22, 06:27 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by jonathanf2
I'm beginning to wonder if the leaderboard riders were doing something similar or using their riding buddies to gain speed?
Drafting can make a huge difference. I suspect most KOMs that don't involve much climbing are set by people drafting other cyclists, scooters, cars or trucks etc. Hey, whatever works right?

I got myself to 9th overall on one particular 0.33km segment with -1.8% gradient by drafting a truck. The truck came along at the right time, I managed to jump on and averaged 63.7 km/h for the segment. The fastest average speed I'd managed up until then under my own power was just 50 km/h or so.
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Old 01-22-22, 08:26 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Elvo
What segment is it? Cutting weight would reduce your frontal profile and increase your power to weight ratio so you can get a better running start. Also good to make sure you have your affairs in order like designated beneficiaries, will/trust, and advanced medical directives.
He's not really going to change his frontal profile with a loss of 10 pounds.

Small changes in position will have a much bigger effect than any weigh he can lose.
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Old 01-22-22, 08:47 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by SapInMyBlood
Absolutely not true.
Itsajoke. It implies that the wife left him because she couldn't deal with the breath.
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Old 01-22-22, 09:22 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Itsajoke. It implies that the wife left him because she couldn't deal with the breath.
A friend says she lost 200 pounds of ugly fat when she got a divorce.
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Old 01-22-22, 10:10 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Kabuto
Drafting can make a huge difference. I suspect most KOMs that don't involve much climbing are set by people drafting other cyclists, scooters, cars or trucks etc. Hey, whatever works right?

I got myself to 9th overall on one particular 0.33km segment with -1.8% gradient by drafting a truck. The truck came along at the right time, I managed to jump on and averaged 63.7 km/h for the segment. The fastest average speed I'd managed up until then under my own power was just 50 km/h or so.
I thought I had adequate distance from the Prius, but when I got up to speed and went super aero tuck, I caught up quickly. There was no room to pass so I had to slow down, but it still resulted in a faster time. I'll probably try again without drafting a car and see if there's a difference. If my time is worst, then I'm guessing some sort of drafting technique was used to get that sub 1 minute time on the leaderboard. In the meantime the more I do this segment, the more I can figure out the optimal line for this downhill. Heck, if I find a car that will go slow enough that allows the draft, but fast enough to not pass it, that'll be perfect!
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Old 01-22-22, 10:50 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
He's not really going to change his frontal profile with a loss of 10 pounds.

Small changes in position will have a much bigger effect than any weigh he can lose.
And if he's trying to gain speed going downhill, losing weight is exactly the opposite of that he wants to do.
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Old 01-22-22, 12:26 PM
  #65  
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I'm a good descender, don't really know why, but I've only ridden with 2 people on DF bikes who could descend side-by-side with me. There are KOMs on some local descents which I can't begin to match. Even my wife and I on our tandem, both of us on aerobars cannot get beyond about 5th place. My suspicion is that we're racing 'bents. No hope going up against a low-rider.
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Old 01-22-22, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Itsajoke. It implies that the wife left him because she couldn't deal with the breath.
*sigh* I missed that
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Old 01-22-22, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
I'm a good descender, don't really know why, but I've only ridden with 2 people on DF bikes who could descend side-by-side with me. There are KOMs on some local descents which I can't begin to match. Even my wife and I on our tandem, both of us on aerobars cannot get beyond about 5th place. My suspicion is that we're racing 'bents. No hope going up against a low-rider.
Amongst my riding buddies, I'm the shortest and lightest, so I tend to focus more on hill climbing and going down the descents fast. I'm also a 'tweener height for bike frames, but I always opt for the smaller frame so I can have a lower center of gravity and slightly lighter frame. The downhill doesn't scare me much since i can ride really low and I can cut corners with my pedals practically scraping the pavement.

I feel like I'm attacking this segment hard, so to get that sub 1 minute time, I'm almost positive I need to utilize a draft and maybe on the final curve try to sling shot myself into a sprint once it flattens out.
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Old 01-22-22, 03:46 PM
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I don't recall if this has been mentioned. Are you spinning out on the downhill? If so and you don't need your low ratios for the climb to the top, then get a crank with bigger rings and pedal all the way down.
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Old 01-23-22, 07:21 PM
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Your tuck is all wrong:


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Old 01-24-22, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SapInMyBlood
Absolutely not true.
​​​​​​The joke is that "lost 140 pounds" means "lost his wife."
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Old 01-24-22, 11:57 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
I'm a good descender, don't really know why, but I've only ridden with 2 people on DF bikes who could descend side-by-side with me. There are KOMs on some local descents which I can't begin to match. Even my wife and I on our tandem, both of us on aerobars cannot get beyond about 5th place. My suspicion is that we're racing 'bents. No hope going up against a low-rider.
I'd bet against it. Don't discount the fact that there are some really good riders in the world, and they know how to go fast in all situations. Even when you think you should be faster (on paper) they can still leave you in the dust.
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Old 01-24-22, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
I'd bet against it. Don't discount the fact that there are some really good riders in the world, and they know how to go fast in all situations. Even when you think you should be faster (on paper) they can still leave you in the dust.
I've been messing around with the Kreuzotter calcuator: Bicycle Speed (Velocity) And Power Calculator
Pretty hard to beat a tandem on a good descent, especially ours, with dual aerobars and flat backs. The calculator says we should be as fast as a low-rider.

OTOH, topping out at 44 means it's not steep, so the big gear is probably the way to go and it's just a gear and power issue, like you say. The OP doesn't mention the gradient.

I don't draft vehicles. They have more rubber on the road than I do.
On the descents I was referring to, we are a lot faster than that, just coasting. As it is said, never pass a tandem near the crest of a hill. We hit 44 yesterday, sitting up and braking, alternating front and rear. I don't let it run anymore - it's not worth it.
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Old 01-24-22, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
I've been messing around with the Kreuzotter calcuator: Bicycle Speed (Velocity) And Power Calculator
Pretty hard to beat a tandem on a good descent, especially ours, with dual aerobars and flat backs. The calculator says we should be as fast as a low-rider.
I like that calculator, but it assumes everyone coasts downhill at the same speed once you know their height and weight and specify a generic bike type. Good riders know how to squeeze more speed out of a bike, even on simple descents.
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Old 01-24-22, 02:57 PM
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Downhill KOM ... Is that even allowed on Strava? You can only win if you put your life on the line. Seems like a suicide mission.
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Old 01-24-22, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Downhill KOM ... Is that even allowed on Strava? You can only win if you put your life on the line. Seems like a suicide mission.
I just checked a couple segments, and yes, they DO still have downhill KOMs. What they DON'T have is downhill "Live" segments, so you can't track how you're doing relative to PR or KOM while going downhill.

EDIT: Though, really, a DOWNHILL "King Of the Mountain"? Shouldn't it be "King Of the Valley"?
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