upthywazzoo 

You mentioned Hambini earlier. The very popular rim comparison chart here https://www.hambini.com/testing-to-f...icycle-wheels/ has apparently taken spin-up power into account, which is interesting, and generally--deeper is better as you said--though it appears that some rims are designed well enough to outperform others with a deeper cross section.

colnago62

Man, they will definitely see you coming. That’s a lot of lumins.

trekmogul 

Typo on my part as the light is 7200 lumens and not 6000.. I have way to many Lupine lights and get them mixed up..

trekmogul 

Not just lots but lots and lots would be more correct..! Only thing I am waiting on is new gadgets to come out that tickle my fancy ..

upthywazzoo 

Just curious. Does Trek (or other manufacturers) do anything special for repeat buyers, such as yourself?

noodle soup

I was just curious if you were aware that they aren’t very aero. They are great wheels, and at one time some top pros were using them, they just aren’t very aero in real world situations(other than track racing).

scuzzo

glad not all cyclist are such garish attention *****s... attaboy! lol... i did not know that was a naughty word... streetwalker of the old west?

upthywazzoo 

Any data on this?

noodle soup

do your own research.

Most Lightweight MEILENSTEIN wheelsets are a very old design(sharp V-shaped wheels). They are more aero than Mavic Open Pro rims, but far behind modern aero wheels.

You might have a hard time finding data, but that's because the are soooooo outdated.

Bah Humbug

Those fabled 32-spoke Open Pros that everyone likes to benchmark their wheels against that already weren't common when I got into the sport... a decade ago.

noodle soup

Mavic OPs were great hoops 15 years ago(I have a pair on my classic), but they were never aero. Lightweight MEILENSTEIN wheels are slightly more aero, but those old V-shaped wheels suck in anything but no-wind conditions.

upthywazzoo 

I haven't seen any papers or data to substantiate that the 858 NSW is inferior to other wheels, as you posited. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I haven't seen any data.

Oh wait a minute, your post was under the pictures of the 858s. Were you actually talking about the meilensteins?

SHBR

This thread gives new meaning to the term, "pissing match".

colnago62

You really don’t see a lot of people using Zipp wheels at the international level. The most used wheelset is a Mavic spoked front with a disc in the rear.

upthywazzoo 

Is it because of performance, or because dealing with Mavic is easier in terms of sponsorship? I was looking at this article and it seemed like there wasn't much overlap between teams in terms of where they're getting wheels from. https://road.cc/content/feature/2643...tour-de-france.

trekmogul 

ALL LIGHTWEIGHT MEILENSTEINS are very very expensive and could careless how "AERO" they are as I own 3 different sets. Those whom also give there wise words of wisdom about something would never have owned them anyways "Not BUDGET FRIENDLY" like a much cheaper mavic wheel...

trekmogul 

There is always a few wheel gurus around but could careless about their expertise wisdom on them as I will buy what I want anyways..

burnthesheep

I read his stuff, and I read most of the long back and forth topic on another forum about it. I had an opinion at the time, but I'll keep it to myself to keep this on-topic. I've even changed that opinion a bit after letting some time pass and reading some more.

I do understand there could be sales bias from data released by people selling wheels, but there are both CRR and aero data for wheels out there that is not from a vendor and also not from Hambini. Also, there's about 5 forum posters on other forums that I trust when they post new data (or private message people results in a private group). There's also better groups than BF and Slowtwitch for this data and for talking to people a lot smarter than I am about it.

Most of the data I value most has a time trial bias to it. That's my hobby. I don't race road much. I'll do the hammer rides, but only a few road things a year. Given that, spin-up power doesn't really matter that much to me personally. Time trial or triathlon wheel testing instead typically focuses a lot on the wheel to tire interface and the vibration of the tire as it goes over road surfaces. There's a term for it, I forget what it is. But, their charts are usually the "total power" to go some speed as a combo of CRR and drag of the wheel/tire combo. Different companies claim to design wheels around one or two tire sizes or brands. Some of the fast stuff was designed around a GP4000s2 or the Conti attack/force combo years back in triathlon stuff. Now, a lot is designed around the GP5000 or the Vittoria CS. Claimed to be, I don't know for sure. When I asked to a person at the company about a few tires I was given a pretty definitive "use that one, and in that size, we designed it for that". They don't sell the tires, so they don't have a bias in which they tell me is best.

I live driving distance to the A2 tunnel. So we have some folks around we can talk to that have been. I may save my pennies and just for fun make a birthday weekend of doubling up the A2 tunnel and doing a beginner track course at Rock Hill next year. I'd love that! But, that's a dream given the cost.

What info do I use or what do I do to buy things?
I've taken the personal approach of choosing what to buy and what to use starting with my budget. I can look at super shiny fancy things all day, but if it's out of budget it is no good to me. With budget blinders on I can eliminate a significant portion of options. Next, I make sure I'm in the generic ballpark of what I want. General use road/road race, time trial, cyclocross. An obvious thing to do. Then, I buy a lot of used equipment then re-sale it after trying it. Lots of people do that and do it at a lot more rapid rate of buy/test/sell than I do. But, I've gone through some stuff at the house the past year or two. Enough stuff to attract the wife's attention to the number of boxes coming and going. While I have it, I'll pair it with the tires and/or tubes or glue or whatever I'm going to use. Then do the virtual elevation testing on it against something I own and have kept I can use as a "control". Usually those 38mm wheels I mentioned. I wish I could swap stuff out more, but it eats time to do so.

I bought a $30 anemometer to make the data cleaner for the aero stuff. I also now have a "legit" power meter on the TT bike instead of a left-only meter. A left-only isn't great for doing that stuff. I've played with the anemometer once so far, it is fussier than expected, but has promise. Now that I have my newer wheel for TT at home........time to test again.

rubiksoval

If no one listens to you brag about your outdated wheels, does it still matter if you have three sets?

littleArnold

I wonder what they would say if rotation weight made much a difference between big heavy thick mountain bike tires vs 23mm lightweight racing tires.

Greiselman

[Did a quick scan of the thread and didn't see this mentioned]

CyclingTip's Nerd Alert podcast did a great episode on how much weight matters within the context of system weight (frame/wheels/rider), especially as compared to aerodynamics. The general consensus was that weight doesn't matter as much we'd like to think, but that we care about it because we can easily quantify it (as opposed to aerodynamics).

More info here: https://cyclingtips.com/2020/03/nerd...gravity-sucks/

woodcraft

Public service reminder:

The video that this thread refers to does not say that weight doesn't matter,

it says that whether the weight is at the rim or not doesn't matter.

colnago62

National Teams do make equipment deals with companies.

WhyFi

... Which is what most people are debating. Well, the on-topic folks.

colnago62

I don’t know if they have redesigned them or not, the article below says Ineos used that brand of wheel in the tour last year.

https://road.cc/content/feature/2643...tour-de-france