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Catching the draft... how close is too close?

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Catching the draft... how close is too close?

Old 07-14-20, 03:14 PM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
Stay a safe distance back until it’s clear to pass. Act like it’s a matter of safety. What if I stab the brakes because of a hazard? Your life is worth more than being closer for that period of time, right? Don’t be a tailgating *******.
But what is a safe distance to you? I think I can and I have missed cyclist having to throw on their brakes in group rides for road hazards and I've been less than a wheel from them.

Just riding on the MUP, I try to be a bike length here, which to me is very reasonable. But I've had a few that evidently don't like that and they brake. Forcing me to have to pass and jeopardize the safety of the oncoming traffic. At that point I no longer care about the safety of the cyclist that braked on me. So if I have to cut them off to get back on my side before safely completing the pass so be it.

Last edited by Iride01; 07-14-20 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 07-14-20, 03:15 PM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
I don’t do it. Do you think I’m dumb? I value my life and ability to walk.

Did you really think that was going to be your Matlock moment?
I guess I'd been waiting for you to speak up once that was mentioned, but... *crickets*
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Old 07-14-20, 03:17 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by upthywazzoo
I guess I'd been waiting for you to speak up once that was mentioned, but... *crickets*
I was actually staying on-topic. But yeah, it’s dumb, and irresponsible. Doubly so if people depend on you.

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Old 07-14-20, 03:18 PM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by Iride01
But what is a safe distance to you? I think I can and I have missed cyclist having to throw on their brakes in group rides for road hazards and I've been less than a wheel from them.

I try to be a bike length here, which to me is very reasonable. But I've had a few that evidently don't like that and they brake. Forcing me to have to pass and jeopardize the safety of the oncoming traffic. At that point I no longer care about the safety of the cyclist that braked on me. So if I have to cut them off to get back on my side before safely completing the pass so be it.
The fact that someone braking in front of you forces you to make an unsafe pass is absolute proof that you’re following unsafely closely.
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Old 07-14-20, 03:23 PM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
The fact that someone braking in front of you forces you to make an unsafe pass is absolute proof that you’re following unsafely closely.
To be fair, you wouldn't expect to get brake-checked by someone you were drafting.

On the other hand--if someone brake-checks you then it's pretty clear you were never supposed to be allowed on the wheel.
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Old 07-14-20, 03:28 PM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by upthywazzoo
To be fair, you wouldn't expect to get brake-checked by someone you were drafting.

On the other hand--if someone brake-checks you then it's pretty clear you were never supposed to be allowed on the wheel.
And when it's not an intentional "brake-check" but a panic stop because they saw something you couldn't?

It's unsafe and irresponsible to put yourself into the situation you described.
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Old 07-14-20, 03:28 PM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
The fact that someone braking in front of you forces you to make an unsafe pass is absolute proof that you’re following unsafely closely.
Sorry, but the cyclist in front that intentionally brakes is the one most at fault. In such circumstances, if I thought I was going to endanger the other traffic, I will go off the side of the road or trail. It hasn't come to that so far.
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Old 07-14-20, 03:34 PM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
And when it's not an intentional "brake-check" but a panic stop because they saw something you couldn't?

It's unsafe and irresponsible to put yourself into the situation you described.
I mean..sure--that's a possible scenario but it's not the one he described. Either way, the end result would be the same. Drafting closely can be dangerous, period--regardless of how well or how little you know the person in front. Anyone remember this?
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Old 07-14-20, 03:38 PM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Well, to be fair, the distance I sat on was shorter than the distance I rode to and from the start/finish, so in total I did an unassisted century. Right?
Most Definitely!
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Old 07-14-20, 03:40 PM
  #185  
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I honestly don't understand the extreme aversion to people riding behind you. In my experience it's really not that big of a deal and a situation that can be easily remedied with a two minute effort if it bothers you that much. Maybe it's also an aversion to looking over your shoulder, because I've never had anyone sneak up behind me and sit on my wheel without me knowing about it well in advance.
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Old 07-14-20, 03:41 PM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Sorry, but the cyclist in front that intentionally brakes is the one most at fault. In such circumstances, if I thought I was going to endanger the other traffic, I will go off the side of the road or trail. It hasn't come to that so far.
Legally speaking, this would be the correct interpretation as well. Purposeful braking with the intent to harm the person behind would be considered an aggressive action. BUT, tailgating is also illegal, and when bikes are on the road they are treated as vehicles. So....
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Old 07-14-20, 03:43 PM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
OMG, you get one person agreeing with you and you’re happy. That makes sense. Thank you... for making it transparent that you were just looking for affirmation.
He didnt agree with me. He answered with numbers correlated to rider experience. But Bah Humbug, you do what you do. Its funny to some.... I guess.
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Old 07-14-20, 03:57 PM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
And when it's not an intentional "brake-check" but a panic stop because they saw something you couldn't?

It's unsafe and irresponsible to put yourself into the situation you described.
I stopped riding on MUPs after one sunny day when I saw this young couple coming toward me who had obviously JUST gotten their Rollerblades and were spending most of their effort not falling on their kiesters. When I got really close I could see they'd also decided "First Time On Rollerblades' was a great time to take the dog out for a stroll. On an extendo-leash. Their dog was scouting out the bushes BEYOND my side of the MUP, with nothing but a thin, black string to tell me he was there.

Now, if anyone had been following closely when I slowed WAY down, REAL fast, he'd have been all over me, especially if he'd just hooked on without announcing himself.
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Old 07-14-20, 04:16 PM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by upthywazzoo
Legally speaking, this would be the correct interpretation as well. Purposeful braking with the intent to harm the person behind would be considered an aggressive action. BUT, tailgating is also illegal, and when bikes are on the road they are treated as vehicles. So....
You're also assuming the braking is an act with intent to harm, rather than a reaction to something the drafting ******* can't see. To your safety, it's the same thing, which is why it's blitheringly idiotic and irresponsible to be that drafting *******.

You seem to live in a world in which when you start drafting someone, they are obligated to keep the hammer down as long as you're back there, regardless of what's in the road. And that attitude is exactly (well much of) the reason I hate having people back there.
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Old 07-14-20, 04:17 PM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by big chainring
He didnt agree with me. He answered with numbers correlated to rider experience. But Bah Humbug, you do what you do. Its funny to some.... I guess.
He agreed with you that you should keep hopping on wheels you don't know and drafting them closely without permission. If he'd said "a dozen yards" (as would be my answer) you wouldn't be thanking him.
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Old 07-14-20, 04:45 PM
  #191  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
He agreed with you that you should keep hopping on wheels you don't know and drafting them closely without permission. If he'd said "a dozen yards" (as would be my answer) you wouldn't be thanking him.
Seems like your advice should be more like 40 or 50 yards, since you claim it's the following rider's fault when they get hit by someone else's snot rocket. I know from personal experience that dozen yards is still in the snot zone.
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Old 07-14-20, 05:52 PM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
You're also assuming the braking is an act with intent to harm, rather than a reaction to something the drafting ******* can't see. To your safety, it's the same thing, which is why it's blitheringly idiotic and irresponsible to be that drafting *******.

You seem to live in a world in which when you start drafting someone, they are obligated to keep the hammer down as long as you're back there, regardless of what's in the road. And that attitude is exactly (well much of) the reason I hate having people back there.
The heck are you blathering about? Firstly, Iride said "But I've had a few that evidently don't like that and they brake. Forcing me to have to pass and jeopardize the safety of the oncoming traffic." He's talking about brake checking--you can make up whatever "what if" scenario you want to justify said braking, but it's not what he said.

Secondly, if you're tailgating someone and they brake to avoid something and you rear-end them--it's obviously your fault, and your insurance is paying. The cops will even cite your violation as "failure to maintain proper following distance" in Chicago. Stop making up **** that people aren't saying.
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Old 07-14-20, 07:11 PM
  #193  
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Originally Posted by velopig
At times I think posts like this are created by the Hosts to increase traffic and thus revenue on this forum. Completely ridiculous.
Well said. (I'm guilty of taking the bait, its been pouring rain lately)

As far as drafting is concerned, actions speak louder than words.

If someone invites you to draft and rides like crap, is it really worth it?

Also, when a competant rider starts signalling and pointing out road hazards, does that mean you're uninvited?
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Old 07-14-20, 08:01 PM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by big chainring
If my behavior is so offensive, I think by now I would have been called out on it. Generally if I can stick with a group for 10-20 miles then I might get a few words in with a couple riders. But most rides I get in on there isn't much talking. And when I drop off or head home I usually get a couple "good ride"s. So whatever you guys are talking about, I haven't experienced. I like to think there is a sporting class of cyclist that excepts other fellow riders based on the simple abilities one shows on the bike. Thats why I say a glance at a group and I know their abilities and if I want to attach onto the group or not.
So now it’s the other riders responsibility to tell you to bugger off? How about let people enjoy their rides and you yours why impose yourself on others? As mentioned earlier there are many clubs, Store rides and misc meet up points if you want to suck someone’s wheel and leave us regular punters to enjoy our day. This hits a sore spot with me, I am a fit 6’ 3” rider and constantly get goofballs sitting on my wheel and have yet to find one who is a competent pleasant person. Rather the opposite, some moderate ability hack weekend warrior blowhard type.
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Old 07-14-20, 08:50 PM
  #195  
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Yikes! I think you guys need to ride more.
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Old 07-14-20, 09:05 PM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by upthywazzoo
Secondly, if you're tailgating someone and they brake to avoid something and you rear-end them--it's obviously your fault, and your insurance is paying. The cops will even cite your violation as "failure to maintain proper following distance" in Chicago. Stop making up **** that people aren't saying.
A invited mooch plows into the back of me because they are trying to play paceline hero and increase their average speed by a few km and the remedy is go through their insurance and make a claim. Given the violence bordering on a war zone that is Chicago I am sure the police have better things to do!
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Old 07-14-20, 09:07 PM
  #197  
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My answer to the OP is one foot for every 10 mph. That works. Descending, I tell people to space themselves 20'-40' apart. There's no reason to get close when your doing 40-50 mph.

These drafting threads sure get out of hand here, don't they? One thing which is very noticeable is that no one ever tells about having an accident because someone was drafting them - other than in the team TT video posted above. It was fairly obvious that the lead rider wasn't looking where she was going, rather more interested in how her team was doing. IMO. The thing to pay attention to, whether someone's drafting you or not, is what's in front of you, not what's behind you, duh. I've been on over 1000 group rides and have had countless riders draft me without asking or notifying and never, that's never, had a bad experience from it. I've had 30-40 people behind me, no problems.

One time my wife and I were heading north on Hwy. 1 in California, riding our tandem in an event. It was blowing the usual 25 from the north. There'd been a long climb and descent recently with quite a few people passing us on the climb. We were overtaking these fast folk on their singles, holding a steady 9.3 mph. One by one, we'd pass them, and they'd hook on behind the last rider. Hey there oh negative ones, we were doing a service for humanity! The pale exhausted woman with the crushed soul, 30' behind her a-hole man, she shouldn't have gotten a tow from us? Where are these posters' hearts, not to mention their heads?

What it is, is this thing, I believe an uniquely US thing, with a few who are always hating on people who get anything for free, even if it's only the fart-filled wind of our passing.

What happened to the idea, quite popular on BF, that the fastest way to get fit is to ride with people who are faster than you? Where'd that go? How does that work if no one can draft? Hundreds of riders have jumped on my wheel, and I've returned the favor - after all the second rider does allow the first rider to go a hair faster. Riding with others is one of the joys of cycling, certainly nothing to b--ch about.
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Old 07-14-20, 09:12 PM
  #198  
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Originally Posted by velopig
A invited mooch plows into the back of me because they are trying to play paceline hero and increase their average speed by a few km and the remedy is go through their insurance and make a claim. Given the violence bordering on a war zone that is Chicago I am sure the police have better things to do!
Let me clarify--I was using vehicle laws as an example. It should be obvious to everyone that if someone rear-ended you while you were riding properly, then it's not your fault. If said mooch had not been invited, it would really really not be your fault.
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Old 07-14-20, 09:27 PM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
The pale exhausted woman with the crushed soul, 30' behind her a-hole man, she shouldn't have gotten a tow from us?
I see that ALL the time with couples here, the worst part is, sometimes they get lost and can't find their way home!

I ride next to my wife, its better that way! (or behind, if there is traffic)

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Old 07-14-20, 11:06 PM
  #200  
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Originally Posted by himespau
I can imagine that the records folks would say that you can't have a fan pointing at the track for obvious reasons, but are there any explicit rules about a random fan (not particularly close) pointed away from the track in the direction the rider is going? If you can detect the effect of drafting yourself, it seems like it wouldn't take much of a fan (or just the right door opened in the right spot) to have an effect.
The attempt has to be at a UCI approved track. I am not sure if that means the track has been approved for racing or there is a special list of approved tracks for record attempts.
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