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Power Meter advice

Old 04-02-21, 05:56 AM
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lloydy85x
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Power Meter advice

Hi guys, I am currently after a power meter to help improve my riding and help with pacing etc, Just curious if anyone has fited a crank based power meter like the 4ii or stages to a Giant TCR Advanced, to me it looks pretty tight clearance wise. If not i might have to pull the trigger on some assiomas which does have the advantage of being able to swap between bikes but about twice as much money wise!
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Old 04-02-21, 07:56 AM
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Double check to make sure with each of the particular models of power meters you're considering, but most of the left side modules require 10 mm of clearance between the crank and the chainstay. So look up the exact dimensions for the ones you're thinking about, and get out a tape measure or ruler.

[Edited to add] And, as long as I have your attention, training FTP is one of the least demanding things you can do with a power meter. Comparing your power data with friends after the ride over coffee (when we can do that again)? That's a more demanding use than training FTP.

Last edited by RChung; 04-02-21 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 04-02-21, 07:58 AM
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You realize the only thing the results of power meter or HR monitors tell you is that you need to ride more. You can boil the metrics down any way you want for discussion and argument. But in the end it's just the results tell you to go RIDE.
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Old 04-02-21, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
You realize the only thing the results of power meter or HR monitors tell you is that you need to ride more. You can boil the metrics down any way you want for discussion and argument. But in the end it's just the results tell you to go RIDE.
You go faster on a bike by making more power, having less drag, or using smarter tactics. The stopwatch and finish line don't care which. Used properly, a high quality power meter can help you with all three. Even a not terribly high quality power meter can help you with one of them. I'm at a point in my life where my power is ebbing away. I've got to do the other crazy stuff or I'd be even slower.
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Old 04-02-21, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
You realize the only thing the results of power meter or HR monitors tell you is that you need to ride more.
And what exactly does that mean? Ride more for hours at an easy pace that barely raises my heart rate? Do more sprints at max effort less than 10 seconds? How about all the intensities in between?

A power meter together with a bit of knowledge and analysis can tell you not only to ride more, but how.
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Old 04-02-21, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by asgelle
And what exactly does that mean? Ride more for hours at an easy pace that barely raises my heart rate? Do more sprints at max effort less than 10 seconds? How about all the intensities in between?

A power meter together with a bit of knowledge and analysis can tell you not only to ride more, but how.
I'd have to rephrase that. Your syntax technically is saying a PM can tell you how to how to ride. <grin> Though with all the subscription training programs coming into being, I guess you might be more correct.

A person with a bit of training knowledge and analysis of power meter data will know how to train during their rides.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against PM's. I intend to get one. It's just that they aren't any more magical for training than just a good training plan. They do give you numbers about something that is really useful for training instead of the sideways look at such that HR monitors along with other data provided.

But a power meter alone isn't going to do anything. You'll still be doing the same training plans that were being done before HR/GPS monitors came into the picture. Sure there'll be a few tweaks because of the more specific thing a PM tell us, but essentially it's the same training plan that those in the know back in the late part of the previous century were beginning to do.

So if the OP is only getting a PM to read numbers without reading about training. It will only be for gee-whiz info.
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Old 04-02-21, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Your syntax technically is saying a PM can tell you how to how to ride.
Only if you choose to deliberately misread what I wrote. A power meter plus knowledge plus analysis can guide training. Why ignore the last two?
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Old 04-02-21, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
You'll still be doing the same training plans that were being done before HR/GPS monitors came into the picture.
This is not correct. By looking at your power/duration curve along with the demands of important events, it's possible to target training to specific weaknesses in a way that isn't possible without the power data.
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Old 04-02-21, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by asgelle
This is not correct. By looking at your power/duration curve along with the demands of important events, it's possible to target training to specific weaknesses in a way that isn't possible without the power data.
I only consider that a minor tweak to training plans that we've had for a long time.

PM's give you more specific info about your power output during and after a ride. Power info lets us refine those same training methods we've used before power meters. They give you a tangible thing to look for and discuss with others instead of the advice of a coach that said, go ride, when you get here, do this, and further along do this.

And the main crux of my initial reply to the OP was intended to be interpreted as a PM alone isn't going to make the OP better at anything.
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Old 04-02-21, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
You realize the only thing the results of power meter or HR monitors tell you is that you need to ride more. You can boil the metrics down any way you want for discussion and argument. But in the end it's just the results tell you to go RIDE.
My Garmin is telling me to rest today, to be ready for more intense training tomorrow. Burying yourself under cumulative fatigue isn't the way to get faster.
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Old 04-02-21, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
And the main crux of my initial reply to the OP was intended to be interpreted as a PM alone isn't going to make the OP better at anything.
Why are you assuming the OP isn't going to use a power meter in an intelligent way?
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Old 04-02-21, 10:03 AM
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Don't forget to add a biomarker of stress and fatigue, e.g., HRV, to close the loop.
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Old 04-02-21, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
Why are you assuming the OP isn't going to use a power meter in an intelligent way?
Because most people seem not to use them or anything else in a intelligent way. Most just look for a number to compare with others.

Maybe that'll be me when I get one.

Why do you reply to me instead of the OP? I didn't intend for my reply to become the topic.
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Old 04-02-21, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
I only consider that a minor tweak to training plans that we've had for a long time.

PM's give you more specific info about your power output during and after a ride. Power info lets us refine those same training methods we've used before power meters. They give you a tangible thing to look for and discuss with others instead of the advice of a coach that said, go ride, when you get here, do this, and further along do this.

And the main crux of my initial reply to the OP was intended to be interpreted as a PM alone isn't going to make the OP better at anything.
Training has definitely changed because of the information from power measurement. For example, we now know that training the higher zones has an effect on the lower zones and to what level. On the velodrome, the data has seen a move to bigger gears in the sprint events. It is true, without analysis, the numbers mean nothing.
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Old 04-02-21, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
Because most people seem not to use them or anything else in a intelligent way. Most just look for a number to compare with others.

Maybe that'll be me when I get one.

Why do you reply to me instead of the OP? I didn't intend for my reply to become the topic.
I hope you realize it's an assumption that you're making when you say most people use power meters wrong.

I'm replying to you because you're giving advice that's irrelevant, and saying things that are factually not true. I know you mean well and you're trying to be helpful.
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Old 04-02-21, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by asgelle
This is not correct. By looking at your power/duration curve along with the demands of important events, it's possible to target training to specific weaknesses in a way that isn't possible without the power data.
It will also tell you when not to ride. If your HR or power does not come up as usual you need more recovery. It also allows you to track progress or lack of over time.
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Old 04-02-21, 10:47 AM
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Like clockwork, there's a post about power meters and the usual suspects descend and s***post and derail what should have been an easy question to answer.

Go start your own thread entitled "You're using your power meter wrong"
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Old 04-02-21, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
I hope you realize it's an assumption that you're making when you say most people use power meters wrong.

I'm replying to you because you're giving advice that's irrelevant, and saying things that are factually not true. I know you mean well and you're trying to be helpful.
It's written ''hits enter before thinking'' under his name. May-be that's why!
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Old 04-02-21, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
I hope you realize it's an assumption that you're making when you say most people use power meters wrong.

I'm replying to you because you're giving advice that's irrelevant, and saying things that are factually not true. I know you mean well and you're trying to be helpful.
I got in a war with others that feel I'm against power meters because I implied the OP should consider why they need one.

I frequently will take an opposing view on something just to be sure things get discussed that weren't stated in the OP. But so far, few have even responded to the OP about anything. I hope the OP has at least gleaned something from all this distraction.

Though I think all they are going to glean is that PM users have become much like eBike users. Anytime someone appears to be against them or make the slightest negative comment then they come out in droves. But at least the eBikers give a reason, y'all aren't even doing that.
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Old 04-02-21, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by lloydy85x
Hi guys, I am currently after a power meter to help improve my riding and help with pacing etc, Just curious if anyone has fited a crank based power meter like the 4ii or stages to a Giant TCR Advanced, to me it looks pretty tight clearance wise. If not i might have to pull the trigger on some assiomas which does have the advantage of being able to swap between bikes but about twice as much money wise!
I've looked at those PM's too. They are all decent and I don't see why they wouldn't fit. Although I've only looked at the stuff that is factory installed already on a crankset.

If you can find some, go for it. Stocks are non existent on the crank based PM's I've looked at.

Just make sure you have a good training program and time to use it. A PM won't do you much good for pacing on a group ride without additional training unless perhaps the group will know what your numbers are and all agree not to ride any harder than that. That'd be a real thoughtful group to do that. <grin>

So ride some more than you are now.
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Old 04-02-21, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by lloydy85x
If not i might have to pull the trigger on some assiomas which does have the advantage of being able to swap between bikes but about twice as much money wise!
Another option is Quarq and Power2Max, which have crankset-based power meters in the $450+ range (though I don't know what the current stock situation looks like).
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Old 04-02-21, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against PM's. I intend to get one. It's just that they aren't any more magical for training than just a good training plan.
Oh, look. Another person without a power meter talking about how to use a power meter. Huh.
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Old 04-02-21, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Another option is Quarq and Power2Max, which have crankset-based power meters in the $450+ range (though I don't know what the current stock situation looks like).
I have heard a lot if good things about the Quarq from some users.
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Old 04-02-21, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
I got in a war with others that feel I'm against power meters because I implied the OP should consider why they need one.

I frequently will take an opposing view on something just to be sure things get discussed that weren't stated in the OP. But so far, few have even responded to the OP about anything. I hope the OP has at least gleaned something from all this distraction.

Though I think all they are going to glean is that PM users have become much like eBike users. Anytime someone appears to be against them or make the slightest negative comment then they come out in droves. But at least the eBikers give a reason, y'all aren't even doing that.
I'm not in a war against any cyclist. 🙂

Based on your last sentence, I'll give it a try. The OP got the best advice anyone without the same bike can give, in the first reply. So I hope he forgives this digression.

Personally I don't care whether you're against power meters or not, I think that's a strange way to look at things. I've never heard a person say "I'm not against screwdrivers but they're not really any different than butter knives." A PM is a tool, it's useful for a handful of things. If it isn't useful to you or anyone else, that's ok. A sextant isn't useful to me. I'm not against sextants, I wouldn't try to talk somebody who thinks they need one out of buying one, or tell them it's not any different than dead reckoning.

​​​​​​I know you're trying to be helpful 🙂 but some of what you're saying is factually incorrect. And you know that sets people off. This is the internet.

A power meter comes with a steep learning curve. Some of it is very technical, you have to learn some new concepts, some jargon, software, maybe even math. Before I had one, I didn't understand either. Nobody is going to waste the time to learn what it means to say your TSB is the relationship between your CTL and ATL and you can't let it be this negative next weekend, until they're working with their own data and seeing everything in context. I used to think it was just a fancy speedometer too.

And that's just training. Lots of people buy power meters, never use them for formal training or even any at all, and get a lot of value out of them. The OP mentioned using it in one of those ways.
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Old 04-02-21, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
A sextant isn't useful to me. I'm not against sextants, I wouldn't try to talk somebody who thinks they need one out of buying one,
I once told my then-gf I was interested in buying a sextant and she said 1) she didn't know they made tents specific to that purpose and 2) we didn't need one anyway.
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