stedge 

So they are saying that they will not do this on a painted frame where they cannot assess the integrity of the frame. This is a good shop, supposedly. Takes care of local
university teams.

Should i just put a 126 in there and to heck with it or is it actually a bigger deal than i am reading/interpreting in these forums? I fully understand error or misunderstanding may be on me.

thanks for any guidance.

scarlson 

This is a steel frame, yes? Just do it yourself!
https://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html#spreading

You're in the USA, right? American litigiousness means that bike shops may not want to mess with stuff like this because of liability.

SurferRosa

"Just say no to your LBS!"

- Nancy Reagan

wesmamyke

I'm not a big fan of spreading frames, but going up one hub width/size is fine.

Steve B.

If it's steel, it was done all the time and is a perfectly acceptable practice. If aluminum, I agree with the shop should not get done.

repechage

I am not excited about that photo illustration of the string measure of the frame, I have used thread. Thicker sewing thread but not anywhere near that thick. And a real metal scale.
‘I do agree, steel only, no aluminum or titanium.

afterward, the dropouts and derailleur hanger need to be evaluated.

randyjawa 

I have used the string method to repair or spread stays on many bikes. Take you time and try to avoid over bending. It is not that difficult to do and, in my opinion, the results are just fine if you do it correctly. That said...

Before spreading, take the time to see if a 126mm hub will fit in easily. If so, check to ensure that the wheel is properly centered in the frame and Bob's your uncle.

bark_eater 

I talked to a bike shop about spreading a bike to 130mm. The said they wouldn't, but if I brought a misaligned frame in they would realign it to 130mm.

Soody

You could also see if you can't easily remove some spacers (preferably symmetrically so as not to mess with dish) from the wheel you want to use. Maybe with a shorter axle.
Even a couple mm less might be the difference between it just going in easily or not without spreading.

Charles Wahl

Well, there you go: you do one side to misalign the frame, and let them finish the job!

Kilroy1988 

Any shop that says they don't want to do this and tries to give a valid excuse really just doesn't want to mess with the process. It's easy, and anyone with a lick of mechanical experience can carefully spread them by hand using a variety of methods to check the alignment, such as those shared above. I've spread and tightened up the rear end on several frames with nothing more than a string, a ruler and my hands and it would be impossible to tell if the alignment was off a couple of millimeters or so because said frames all had horizontal dropouts that allowed the wheels to be set in straight anyway. "Straight enough" is indeed good enough for a typical bicycle frame, whatever anyone says to the contrary, methinks.

That being said, the above does not apply to vertical or short dropouts that do not allow wheel adjustment.

-Gregory

rgvg

Huh. I asked a shop if they could spread a frame they said yes. I asked if they could align a frame they said no.

cudak888 

Came here to say this. Cold-set one side, then tell them the rear triangle is out of alignment and needs to be re-set to 130mm.

Seems like everything I've bought recently has come from that shop. I know their work well





-Kurt

scarlson 

I'm most often quite happy to go from whatever spacing to whatever else. I've gone from 120 to 135 without issue. Framebuilders of yore often would cold-set a triangle all over the place after they'd brazed it up. It rarely comes out perfect after it's been brazed. Not something you find in C&V anyway.

icemilkcoffee 

What problem are you trying to solve anyways? If you want 6 speeds you can put a Suntour Ultra 6 freewheel onto that 120mm hub. If you want HG style cogs, you can go with a SunXCD hub, or alternatively run a 7 speed HG hub, but leave out the cassette lock ring, and use a UG small cog to lock in 5 HG cogs. You should be able to thin the hub down to ~122mm.

microcord

Here in Tokyo (where people aren't so litigious), bike shops won't do it. You take it, or the bike shop takes it, to a framebuilder, and the framebuilder does it. If you don't want to do it myself (and I very definitely didn't), perhaps take it to a framebuilder?

cyccommute 

Just posted elsewhere on doing this to my daughter’s steel bike. It’s almost trivial. Here the RJ the Bike Guy video I used

Mr. 66

The only time I've broken axels was using 126 wheels in the 120 spacing, and that was when when I was only about 120 lbs soaking wet and 40 years younger.

davester

Dollars to donuts that's because when you push apart the dropouts like that, they are no longer parallel and clamping the quick release puts a bending stress on the axle, resulting in either an eventual broken axle or a cracked dropout. Ask me how I know.

gugie 

@stedge,

Where are you located? Maybe a forumite can help out. I've respaced dozens of frames here in Portland, Oregon.

JohnDThompson 

Be sure to check alignment after doing this. Drive-side chainstays are often indented to provide chainring clearance; this makes them easier to bend than the non-drive-side chainstay, so they are often displaced more when cold-set in this manner.

Senior Ryder 00 

I’ve used a jig like this many times. The only difference is that I use a very thick washer on both side of the dropout in an attempt to keep them parallel. Always do a string alignment check when done.​​​​​​ No problems.
Cheers,
Van
​​

Ross200

From a shop perspective, what to you do when the "trivial" act of respacing the rear triangle goes awry? As in the brake bridge separates from the seat stay. Do you hand the frame back to the customer and say "so sorry"? Do you pay for rebrazing and repaint with new decals? Do you give the customer a new frame? Was it worth the $35-50 you might charge for this "service"? Irrespective of litigation, the shop will likely lose money and/or reputation.

I have adjusted many frames over the years for myself, friends, and customers with fortunate success. I have been in shops where there have been failures and respect a shop that says "no" and offers a reasonable rationale why.

bulgie 

I wouldn't say "displaced more" because most likely result is all the displacement is on the right.

Neither stay takes a permanent "set" until one (the weaker one) reaches its yield stress, then it bends permanently. At that point the other, stronger stay (usually left) has not budged a mm, except for elastic strain that returns to the same place it was before the attempt.

Even with stays that appear the same, i.e. no extra indent on the right for the chainring, one will inevitably be weaker (from brazing heat or other effects), and that one will likely get all the bending. Or if you're lucky, "only most" of it.

Even if you bend out one side at a time, you need to remember that they're connected by bridges, so bending one side does affect the other. In my experience, it's an iterative process where you need to make multiple adjustments to each side, with measurements in between. Though with enough experience you can come pretty close on the first try.

Since it's easier to bend it back in the direction you came from, for the first mm or two anyway (sometimes called "memory") I like to bend them just slightly (like a mm) too far and then pull them back by a mm, which removes the memory effect. I don't have any proof that this is better than just landing on the correct number in the first place, it's just a gut feeling. Maybe I should add that I've cold-set maybe a thousand frames during my decades as a framebuilder, if that's worth anything. But watch out for the "appeal to authority" fallacy. I really don't know for sure if I'm right. I suspect no one knows. But if there's actual science done on this that someone can point to, I'm all ears.

Mark B

bulgie 

I "liked" your post 'cuz it's true, but there's always the option of telling the cust about the possibility of a fail, and getting them to sign off on it before proceeding. Usually just verbally, no signed waiver needed.

Maybe there's some mind-reading needed, to determine whether they can be trusted not to whine, despite promising not to. But I've never run into that scenario. When a frame repair hasn't gone well, as long as I warned them ahead of time, there's been no repercussions.

Maybe it comes down to the repair guy's confidence that he really did all he could, and/or the cust believing it. Maybe I got away with it because I was a framebuilder, where a LBS wouldn't have the same aura of invincibility? It's harder to pull off the confidence-face if you've only done it a few times. But I'd respect an LBS wrench who admits he's only done this a few times, but is willing to try it if you're willing to accept the risk.

Am I being naïve? I can see the world has gotten more litigious since I was in the biz 25+ years ago.

Oh yeah there's also the dilution of talent -- a lot of the guys who are good at bending steel frames have retired or gone on to "real" jobs, and current LBS types only know carpet fiber frames. Anyone old enough to remember 120 mm frames has probably "aged out" of the biz by now. Us C&V types might have to take care of things ourselves.

Maybe we need a registry of people willing to bend on steel, by city/town?

Mark B