Peacewiz

need help with road bike conversion from gravel bike.

I purchased a Cannondale Topstone Carbon Ultra RX 2 before pandemic and spent lot of time on local trails but not very pleasant ride transitioning from stumpjumper full suspension bike. I recently met up with a group of cyclers in church on a 30 mile ride with my gravel bike but i was having difficult time keeping pace with them. I'm new to road cycling and need some guidance to upgrading for better speed. the current crank is 46/30 with 11-34 cassette. I swapped out the tires to Pirelli Zero Velo 4s.

or should I just build a new setup for road?

Thanks in advance~

ThermionicScott 

Welcome to BikeForums. You have both higher and lower gears available than bike race winners of the past, so your drivetrain is not what's holding you back. It's normal to have trouble keeping up with the experienced groups when you're just getting into cycling, so I'd make sure your fit is good and give it some time.

Peacewiz

Thx for your quick response...

You're right on... I swapped out the tires after few meetups with the group and haven't tried the new slick tires. I'll test out them out and give it time...

Thx

surak

Where in the group ride are you struggling? Is it when the group is going fast on the flats, downhills, or on climbs? Unless they're going well over 20 mph, my guess is that your bike should be fine and it's mostly body position/drag, fitness, and maybe group riding skills that you need to improve. In the winter, I ride my CX bike with a single 40t chainring and 11-36t cassette and keep up with the 18-20 mph group rides, so I don't think overhauling your gearing is crucial.

The most important factor is not equipment choice but fitness. Generally it's the climbing that new riders struggle with, and it's mostly a function of your power to weight ratio. You may be able to lose some weight from a gravel bike as the frame and especially wheels tend to be heavier for off-road use, but honestly that's like 4ish pounds you could save at the cost of thousands of dollars. Consider the percentage of total weight that 4 lbs would be.
Aerodynamic drag from your body will make up a big portion of the forces you must overcome at speed. Are you wear baggy clothes and is your bike set up in a very upright position? Those are both bad for speed. You might not be comfortable moving some spacers from under your stem or flipping it to get lower, but it's something you can experiment with. Tight-fitting clothes are just plain faster.

You can hang with others in a paceline if you stay close and save energy in the draft. It's not hard, just ride more with others to get used to it. Energy saved when you don't need it is invaluable for when the riding gets tougher.
If you're sure you want a pure road bike and are fine with ditching the versatility of your gravel bike then by all means look something lighter and more aerodynamic. Or you could compromise, drop 1-2 grand on a lighter yet more aero wheelset that's optimized for 25 or 28mm tires, and keep your gravel bike. You'll get a little bit faster in most conditions, but don't expect a miracle.

Steve B.

If you find yourself out of gear on long downhills and spinning out in a 46/11, then only option is to swap to a compact road crank that will get you a 50 big ring or a 39/53 crank. But that maybe yields 4 mph in the 53/11, so your call.

You can play with different cassette and crank options and find out speed here. Mike Sherman's Bicycle Gear Calculator (mike-sherman.github.io)

You can also get a 2nd wheelset and put the road tires, maybe 28mm's on that with a road cassette like an 11-28. Then keep the gravel tires and hills gears on the original wheel set. On the carbon Topstone you would have to have a shop re-dish the rear wheel but that easy and cheap. A 2nd wheel set is what a lot of users of this bike do, it's how I have my aluminum Topstone setup, works great.

And FWIW, my experience is that my alu Topstone at 22 lbs with the road wheels on it, is about 5 lbs heavier and maybe 1/2 mph slower than my 17 lbs carbon road bike. I notice it on group rides.

tomato coupe

What kind of a church is this that refers to "cyclers"? Sounds like a cult to me.

Germany_chris

Before you buy stuff get used to road riding first, MTB and road are two different disciplines and require different skills in order to be fast.

Peacewiz

thank you for your tips...


we were on Santa Ana river trail to Huntington Beach and I was averaging 16mph and one of the member averaged 24mph. i wasn't wearing tight cycling clothes and I remember the members posture was much more aerodynamic than I, lowered upper body hunched closer to the stem. I wasn't thinking about the aerodynamic but common sense hindsight...


I'll try the new tires, clothing, and posture...


thanks again for such a detailed explanation.

zandoval 

I would suggest starting with a second wheel set with Touring Tires. Switching them out every now and then to start...

Peacewiz

I'm actually looking at some pair of carbon fiber wheels from SuperTeam.

thx

Peacewiz

haha... I meant cycling group...

cyclezen

2nd set of decent Wheels (not always expensive) !
good road Tires (700x25) !
11x25 cassette,, using your 46/30 chainrings, will give a good road gear range for anything but the longest (3+ miles) steepest (10-12+ %) climbs
work to get comfortable with a cadence of 80 to 90 with the goal to be comfy at 90 to 100+
lotsa riding... working for cadence and efficiency - the power will come as you ride more and get more fluid and efficient.
if you averaged 16, the new wheelset, for road, might get you to 20/21 mph
you will still get shelled, if the group averages 24 mph, even on a flat river ride. But it will happen later in the ride.
you need to develop roadie fitness, which includes a tolerance to frequent suffering.
learn how to ride on a wheel, in a group, safely... river 'trails' have their own dangers, so be aware when at speed.
learn how to look beyond the riders in front of you, anticipate what is coming - DOn;t stare at the wheel in front of you or the back of the rider - look ahead.
until you become really skilled - NEVER EVER overlap wheels with the rider in front of you. starting at about 1 wheel length distance behind the rider in front of you, is a good distance to ride at for a while - IF you keep your attention forward and alert. If that feels too close, add a bit more distance.
try not to hit your brakes except for real needs like tight corners - learn to moderate pedal pressure or cadence to maintain a riding gap - learn/develop 'soft pedaling'
working on when to be aero and when to relax
roadie bike fit and posture is different from off-road
if you need to learn about gearing - a good gearing chart helps (when you understand the basics of gearing and use) - this one is good
Bicycle Gear Calculator
set it to 'mph', set your chainrings by sliding multiple rings along the range
wheel/tire size for 700c in the dropdown is something '28' like "28/25-622" (the number after slash is tire width), pick a cassette range, like 11/11-25 which is 11 speed 11-25 cassette... cadence defaults to 90 (but you can change to see the effect)... gear inches is the 'gear' - IE your 46 chainring using the 15 cog is an 81 inch gear, which at 90 cadence will put you at 22 mph (using a 25mm tire).
everything the same except being in the smallest rear cog, the 11, would have you at 30 mph...

get some well fitting kit. - multiple items, one pr of everything is no where... it doesn't need to be expensive, it just needs to fit.
if you're trying to do this with 'flat' pedals, I recommend that you start working on riding with some variation of clipless - mtb type SPD, eggbeaters, etc are a good option.
there's so much... too much for a post
it's out there for you to learn.
enjoy - it will come together with education, work and perseverance
Ride On
Yuri
EDIT: BTW, that Cannondale Topstone Carbon Ultra RX 2 looks like a very fine bike, and with road wheels will be right in there as a top road machine. Light and fast. If you need to get more aero, bend your elbows more... ride in the drops... cheap and very effective... not always easy to do...

koala logs

Before training, aero clothes will give you the best improvement for speed. Next are tires. Beyond those basic items, your upgrade path is likely to become more expensive with diminishing returns.

Posture alone won't guarantee making you faster on its own. Getting yourself lower might actually cut down your power if you're not used to the position. So you also need to train and get used to riding in a lower posture. Of all these, training is almost always the guaranteed means of having the biggest gains in speed.

nomadmax 

To me, the true impediment in making a "gravel bike" a "road bike" is frame geometry. Gravel bikes usually have a lot of trail, sometimes north of 70mm which makes for a lot of wheel flop when ridden aggressively out of the saddle.

t2p

new cycling group might be in order lol

24 mph pace - even on mostly level - is a tough way to begin road riding (cringe)

my initial road riding experience was similar to your experience - and I eventually found other groups to ride with and this was the best move I made

but I did get a nickname that has remained with me from those early road riding days ; initially I wore baggy off-road shorts on the road bike and got the name 'Tommy Two Pants' - t2p
.

t2p

need to remember it can take time to build up to attain the speeds of accomplished riders

first - need a base

too much too fast and you could be looking at overuse injuries and similar

it's a marathon - not a sprint

ClydeClydeson

In any big group of cyclers (I am using that word from now on - Feel free to join me on my soon-to-be website of www.CyclersForums.org) there are people who want to go fast and people who want to go slow. The only common thread among them is wanting to not crash into or get knocked over by people who don't know how to ride in a group. The group you found may have wanted to ride at 40km/h, but many others would rather be doing less than half that, and the remainder of people are somewhere in between. Just make sure you are careful and learning group riding etiquette like not using your brakes in a pack, not accelerating off the front, pointing out obstacles on the road, etc.

big john

I've read that some Topstone bikes have an odd rear wheel offset, meaning you can't just swap in another wheel. This may be true for all Topstones,, I don't know.

As others have suggested, riding fast on the road is very different than riding off road. Fitness is important, sure,, but it takes time to develop your spin/cadence, your position, and to learn how to ride with a group. Once you get the road tires on, you should start to see gains over time. You can practice your spin and your smoothness by yourself. Maybe even do some intervals.

timdow

Shame to change the intended use of the Topstone. If it were me, I'd just get another bike.

fishboat

Need to take a step back..you're transitioning from trail riding to 20+mph average road riding. The guys riding an average 24mph aren't riding that fast because they look good.

The elephant standing in the corner maybe not be the bike but the motor. Mount some decent road tires and do some training. At this point I think dropping a bunch of money on carbon bits and bobs is a waste of money. You need to put in some training miles.

prj71

This is the biggest problem right here. As soon as you get some tight cycling clothes you will be able to average 24mph.

alcjphil

People new to group riding waste a lot of energy until they acquire the skills needed to follow wheels safely. The club I belong to always recommends that new members start with groups that ride at average speeds well below what they think they can maintain. Experienced riders can save energy because they know how to follow wheels without constantly changing speed. New riders are endlessly stopping and starting pedalling, braking and accelerating wasting energy all the while

Steve B.

Only the carbons.

mstateglfr 

- Your bike's drivetrain is almost for sure not holding you back. 46/11 at 80 rpm is 26.7mph with 30mm tires. 80rpm is a good general cadence as it is faster than what a lot of beginners are use to, but it is hardly excessively fast.
- The Topstone can be fun on singletrack trails, but its a gravel bike and not a mountain bike. Ride it on gravel roads and it will be more fun.
- High quality fast rolling tires are the easiest way to increase speed. Something that is 30mm or so and is recognized as fast rolling will help a lot.
- Tighter fitting clothes will help reduce drag, but that can be expensive compared to just buying fast rolling tires.
- A new wheelset is hardly necessary, but go wild if you want.
- You are holding yourself back. It takes time to ride faster and keep that pace up for long distances over varied terrain. You are trying to run before you can walk if you are joining a group where 24mph is a common cruising speed.
- I have no idea what the Santa Ana trail is like, but if it is heavily trafficked by walkers and runners, 24mph is excessive and roads should be used.


Only saddle time will make you faster. That and some fast rolling tires(which are different from narrow cheaper tires, to be clear).

sean.hwy

If the member average 24 mph for the whole ride not just a flat section with a tail wind I would suggest a slower riding group. I don't know anyone that can AVERAGE 24 mph for 2+ hour ride on public roads with hills, traffic, head wind etc...

Since you have a 2x gravel bike your gearing is fine. When riding solo I just use my cheap alloy wheels with gravel king slicks. If I am in group ride with road cyclists I would put on my carbon wheel set with gp5000 tires. The carbon wheels and road tires is good for about 1 to 1.5 mph over the alloy wheels with gravel king slicks