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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

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The Water Cooler, Scuttlebutt, Chit Chat Thread

Old 09-22-21, 01:38 PM
  #6501  
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Originally Posted by wktmeow
I had patella pain for a while after ramping up my volume too quickly. Took like 6 months off (coincided with other reasons), focused on doing some squats and deadlifts, slowly reintroduced the bike and haven't had issues since. Maybe try some strength work?
Was this recently? Like within the last couple of seasons?

Ya, I've also thought about bringing in some more strength work, just to keep things overall healthy and balanced. Maybe I'll do that.
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Old 09-22-21, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TMonk
Was this recently? Like within the last couple of seasons?

Ya, I've also thought about bringing in some more strength work, just to keep things overall healthy and balanced. Maybe I'll do that.
This was in 2014 IIRC, I've done strength work in the gym most off seasons since then
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Old 09-23-21, 07:29 AM
  #6503  
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I partially tore my patella back in 2012. Took about two years for it to heal well enough. I still get bad tendinitis in it periodically.

But I had similar issues to wktmeow back when I first started riding. I remember one ride in which I could not pedal seated - only standing - because the pain was too much. I had to ride an hour either standing or coasting before my wife got out there to pick me up.
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Old 09-23-21, 08:06 AM
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Yikes, yeah mine is not that bad, more like a dull ache/pressure that develops 30-60 min into a ride. This started 3 weeks ago.

I've had quadriceps tendonitis in my right knee that was worse (symptoms wise) and kept me off the bike for a few months too, so I know not to overdo it. It's just frustrating to have little to no progress when I want to be able to ride, and all the head games that accompany that.

I think it would be useful to talk to a professional about this, just to give me a healthier long view and a recovery/strengthening routine that I can be focused about. I might try to schedule that tomorrow.

But yes to lifting! Maybe time to re-visit that. For now, it's just step-downs, lying VMO contractions and some lunges, all based on what I've read online.
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Old 09-23-21, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by big john
I have met a bunch of people from the forum but hardly see any of them these days.
I don't think it's any surprise to anyone but my company grew out of my screen name here and most of my early business was from this site. At one point almost everyone I rode with was from Bikeforums. I still, to this day, see many that I initially met here on a frequent basis.

We are currently planning a podcast episode, that we are jokingly calling the Kevin Bacon episode, that will have Timmyquest (Tim), myself, and Mike Friedman. We are going to talk about all the links between us over time. Leads back to Andy Hampsten and will most likely discuss Bikeforums at some point. I am sure we will discuss that this all led to Tim living with Mike and being Hamspten's neighbor at one point.

Only have the time to come out here at the moment because I am on a "COVID Update" call with USA Cycling. Currently the promoter for Gila is talking about their reasons for cancelling. Fun times.
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Old 09-23-21, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by TMonk
Yikes, yeah mine is not that bad, more like a dull ache/pressure that develops 30-60 min into a ride. This started 3 weeks ago.

I've had quadriceps tendonitis in my right knee that was worse (symptoms wise) and kept me off the bike for a few months too, so I know not to overdo it. It's just frustrating to have little to no progress when I want to be able to ride, and all the head games that accompany that.

I think it would be useful to talk to a professional about this, just to give me a healthier long view and a recovery/strengthening routine that I can be focused about. I might try to schedule that tomorrow.

But yes to lifting! Maybe time to re-visit that. For now, it's just step-downs, lying VMO contractions and some lunges, all based on what I've read online.
This sounds a bit like what I had, just a dull ache every time I rode, felt like it was on the inner, medial part of my patella. The pain didn't stop me from riding, but the worry of making it worse did. I saw a doc and a PT and they didn't really help me out a ton :\
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Old 09-23-21, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by wktmeow
This sounds a bit like what I had, just a dull ache every time I rode, felt like it was on the inner, medial part of my patella. The pain didn't stop me from riding, but the worry of making it worse did. I saw a doc and a PT and they didn't really help me out a ton :\
Ya, I've had that sort of experience in the past too, esp. w Kaiser (which I'm still on). Convenient for routine stuff, not super helpful for specialists. Still, I intend on being proactive and asking a ton of questions while I'm there.

Did a bunch of self reading and teaching and this AM and in addition to the VMO, I think I need to work on my glutes! Maybe starting with some lighter physio/kinesio type stuff, then working up to a weekly lower body routine. Squats/Deads are great, but I'd like to develop something I can do at home, step ups/lunges (w free weights) etc.

Ultimately I'd like to develop an optimized physio routine that I bracket on my bi-weekly ab workouts (already doing), and a once/week lifting routine for the long haul for overall health and strength. Also - maybe a few minute glute activation routine before any workout, cycling or otherwise. Between this, hiking/running and other activities, I think it's important for overall health and injury prevention.

Going through all this is such a roller coaster - I can come out of my rides feeling either quite pessimistic or optimistic depending on how things go haha. A lot of cycling for me is about community, in addition to my own racing, I want to get back to a high level so I can be a representative of our elite road and track community, and mentor other riders - fortunately that last part doesn't require a lot of fitness haha, just experience.

You'd think that after 14 years as a competitive cyclist, and having gone through overuse stuff, I'd have a cooler head about this haha. I guess that's the hard part. I look forward to getting to a place of holistic understanding about my situation, and how to remedy it and slowly get back where I can focus on injury prevention. I'll be in a better headspace once I get there.
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Old 09-23-21, 11:58 AM
  #6508  
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I was doing some steep climbs near the Hollywood sign last January and something hurt in my left ankle, like a knife was sticking in there. I finished the ride and it's has been bothering me ever since but seems to be better lately. I repositioned my cleat, wrap a little tape first, then an elastic sleeve, then a neoprene ankle brace and I can ride without pain.
In the past my right leg has taken the most abuse. Crashed my motorcycle showing off and injured my right ankle. Saw two docs, x-rays, etc. Their best advice was if you can still walk on it we aren't doing any surgery. It popped and woke me up at night for years but it has calmed down.

In July I chased some fast people for 65 miles in the hills and really extended myself. Started having irregular heartbeat after that but haven't seen the doc. Last time I had that was in 2017 and saw 2 docs and they couldn't help and told me how good I look for my age, like I should be happy with that. They referred me to a cardiologist but my insurance declined and after 6 months they gave in and approved it but by then the symptoms were gone.

It's better than it was in August but I started thinking about going to the doc again. I was riding pretty well when this crap started.
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Old 09-23-21, 02:00 PM
  #6509  
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Originally Posted by big john
They referred me to a cardiologist but my insurance declined
Wow, as a Canadian that is almost inconceivable...

Be well. Most flutters are not particularly risky.
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Old 09-23-21, 02:10 PM
  #6510  
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Originally Posted by Enthalpic
Wow, as a Canadian that is almost inconceivable...

Be well. Most flutters are not particularly risky.
I know, I thought the referral would go through easily, it's the heart, after all. This time there is more to it than just weird beats, sometimes I feel bad but not on the bike. Still, I'm not chasing these days and trying to stay out of the anaerobic antics. They'll wait, or they won't.
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Old 09-23-21, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by big john
I know, I thought the referral would go through easily, it's the heart, after all. This time there is more to it than just weird beats, sometimes I feel bad but not on the bike. Still, I'm not chasing these days and trying to stay out of the anaerobic antics. They'll wait, or they won't.
Talk to your GP. A cheap ECG can rule out some serious problems.
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Old 09-23-21, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Enthalpic
Talk to your GP. A cheap ECG can rule out some serious problems.
Might have to go in soon. I did have an ECG during a check up late last year. Also had the test where they check circulation on the limbs. All good at the time and I was riding and climbing better than I have for several years when this started.

A friend has a-fib bad enough that they put him on meds, blood thinner I think, and told him not to elevate his heart rate past a certain point. His response was to get an e-bike, a Turbo Creo, which is fine with me after he stopped half wheeling everywhere.
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Old 09-23-21, 06:48 PM
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Both of my in-laws have had cardio-inversions to correct A-fib at least twice each.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by big john
Might have to go in soon. I did have an ECG during a check up late last year. Also had the test where they check circulation on the limbs. All good at the time and I was riding and climbing better than I have for several years when this started.

A friend has a-fib bad enough that they put him on meds, blood thinner I think, and told him not to elevate his heart rate past a certain point. His response was to get an e-bike, a Turbo Creo, which is fine with me after he stopped half wheeling everywhere.
For a country that brags about the best health care some of this is garbage...

Electrical problems in the heart are highly treatable / curable but alternatively can be "managed" with medication for less.

You need to see your doctor.

My old friend was feeling crappy then his chest started to hurt -he thought he was dying of a heart attack. Turned out he had a bleeding ulcer (H pylori) and and was so anemic his heart almost failed. 2 units of blood and he felt great.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:33 PM
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Other people here tell Big John to get his ass to the GP. Auscultation is free with standard exam.

Group Hug from Bike Forum peeps.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:49 PM
  #6516  
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Originally Posted by Enthalpic
Other people here tell Big John to get his ass to the GP. Auscultation is free with standard exam.

Group Hug from Bike Forum peeps.
I could post about it on the 50+ forum, they always recommend a doctor visit. OK I'll make an appt. next week unless I make a dramatic improvement before then.
Money isn't an issue, the Medicare+ thing I have has been pretty good so far. Thanks for your concern.

I had a bleeding ulcer back when I was a practicing alcoholic. It sucked.
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Old 09-23-21, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by himespau
Both of my in-laws have had cardio-inversions to correct A-fib at least twice each.
Dayum. One of my friends had an ablation several years back. We were mountain biking @9000 feet a few weeks later.
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Old 09-23-21, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by big john
I could post about it on the 50+ forum, they always recommend a doctor visit. OK I'll make an appt. next week unless I make a dramatic improvement before then.
Money isn't an issue, the Medicare+ thing I have has been pretty good so far. Thanks for your concern.

I had a bleeding ulcer back when I was a practicing alcoholic. It sucked.
IMO, social media and the internet are the worst places to get medical advice. I have made it a practice not to recommend anything to friends. It is like no good deed goes unpunished. What I think is good and valuable, they think is over priced and whatever. Having said that, when I lived in NorCal, I used a Standford Hospital Cardiologist and now in SoCal, a Scripps Clinic cardiolgist. My mom has A-fib and I get odd rhythms. Besides standard stuff like Echos, stress tests and ECG, they used this https://www.irhythmtech.com/?utm_ter...hoCyfQQAvD_BwE

This device accurately records two weeks worth of heart rate data. There is a button on the device to push if you feel any symptoms. You press the button and log your impression on a mobile app. The mobile app data along with the recorded heart rate data is sent to a company that prepares a report for the cardiologist. I do everything I would normally do including race, gym and etc.

Two weeks of recording captures all the possible matters and they will find any strange or dangerous rhythms. After a few days, it starts to itch. Drove me a little nuts and glad to remove it. It is amazing what a benign premature beats or extra beats can do to generate strange symptoms. It is good to know that all is good or to the contrary, action must be taken.

Cardiology check ups are just part of grinding along like colonoscopies and prostate exams. No big deal and the earlier a problem is diagnosed the better. Good luck and go now.
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Old 09-23-21, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Hermes
IMO, social media and the internet are the worst places to get medical advice. I have made it a practice not to recommend anything to friends. It is like no good deed goes unpunished. What I think is good and valuable, they think is over priced and whatever. Having said that, when I lived in NorCal, I used a Standford Hospital Cardiologist and now in SoCal, a Scripps Clinic cardiolgist. My mom has A-fib and I get odd rhythms. Besides standard stuff like Echos, stress tests and ECG, they used this https://www.irhythmtech.com/?utm_ter...hoCyfQQAvD_BwE

This device accurately records two weeks worth of heart rate data. There is a button on the device to push if you feel any symptoms. You press the button and log your impression on a mobile app. The mobile app data along with the recorded heart rate data is sent to a company that prepares a report for the cardiologist. I do everything I would normally do including race, gym and etc.

Two weeks of recording captures all the possible matters and they will find any strange or dangerous rhythms. After a few days, it starts to itch. Drove me a little nuts and glad to remove it. It is amazing what a benign premature beats or extra beats can do to generate strange symptoms. It is good to know that all is good or to the contrary, action must be taken.

Cardiology check ups are just part of grinding along like colonoscopies and prostate exams. No big deal and the earlier a problem is diagnosed the better. Good luck and go now.
I understand and I wasn't soliciting medical advice, more just sniveling. It is nice to hear from other cyclists, the people who may have similar experiences.

The last time my primary doc wanted me to get the wearable monitor but the insurance said no. Since it resolved itself then I was hoping it would again. I haven't had a lot of success with doctors in the past, with some exceptions of course.
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Old 09-23-21, 11:16 PM
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TMonk I agree and think glutes are key. I was going to post something when you first talked about knee pain. As cyclists, we are quad centric. The quad gets stronger and shorter and pulls the kneecap out of place. The challenge is making a PT program operational. Not so easy. It is not just glute strength but neurology. The glutes just do not fire quite right. That may sound weir but it is happens.

My suggestion is to think about some glute / ham work with the quad isolated or being used for stability only. Bridges and Roman chair work come to to mind. Deads and back lifts and etc are great but I think glute focus will give a better yield (assuming we have the diagnosis right). Hey I stayed at a Holiday Express so what more do you want. For a combo exercise that use the glute and quad, try the one leg pistol squat and Bulgarian Split squats. I like the pistol squats. They kill my glutes. At my gym, we have a couple of good glute machines that I use.

There is no downside in making the glutes stronger and firing more during the pedal stroke.
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Old 09-24-21, 12:02 AM
  #6521  
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Thanks for the tips - I will record and look up those exercises.

One of the videos that I watched this morning had a glute activation routine that involved just sitting on your hands and contracting your glutes in an isolated fashion, one at a time. It is significantly easier for me to fire my right glute - doing so on the left side (my current problem knee) takes some focus. I found this to be quite insightful and I will be studying about glute strengthening in general.

wktmeow has also given me some good resources and advice (off-line). I appreciate the advice, and the disclaimers, and will take anything I learn as "For Information Only". And information is good.
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Old 09-24-21, 05:18 AM
  #6522  
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I don't have any injuries/pain, but I do have some noticeable imbalances between my right/and left sides and a general lack of posterior chain firing, so instead of jumping into strength training this year, I decided to start with some foundation work. After some search I settled on the program from SoCalBikePT. I'm only two weeks in, but it really focuses on the basics and getting muscle coordination/firing patterns. Anecdotally, I've already seen a noticeable (R/L pedal balance measures) shift in my ability to get more glute/ham in my pedaling and apply more constant pressure with my left leg.

Also, nothing in your body works in isolation, so look above and below your knee as well. I have notices that I shrug my left shoulder to compensate for not driving through that leg, so the work on my scapular retraction and lat mobility helps release the hip a bit and drive a bit more through the left side. It can be a bit of a rabbit hole, which is why I chose to get a program. Otherwise, I'd be trying to fix everything at once and not really creating any knid of real progression.
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Old 09-24-21, 07:23 AM
  #6523  
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Originally Posted by TMonk
Ya, I've had that sort of experience in the past too, esp. w Kaiser (which I'm still on). Convenient for routine stuff, not super helpful for specialists. Still, I intend on being proactive and asking a ton of questions while I'm there.

Did a bunch of self reading and teaching and this AM and in addition to the VMO, I think I need to work on my glutes! Maybe starting with some lighter physio/kinesio type stuff, then working up to a weekly lower body routine. Squats/Deads are great, but I'd like to develop something I can do at home, step ups/lunges (w free weights) etc.

Ultimately I'd like to develop an optimized physio routine that I bracket on my bi-weekly ab workouts (already doing), and a once/week lifting routine for the long haul for overall health and strength. Also - maybe a few minute glute activation routine before any workout, cycling or otherwise. Between this, hiking/running and other activities, I think it's important for overall health and injury prevention.

Going through all this is such a roller coaster - I can come out of my rides feeling either quite pessimistic or optimistic depending on how things go haha. A lot of cycling for me is about community, in addition to my own racing, I want to get back to a high level so I can be a representative of our elite road and track community, and mentor other riders - fortunately that last part doesn't require a lot of fitness haha, just experience.

You'd think that after 14 years as a competitive cyclist, and having gone through overuse stuff, I'd have a cooler head about this haha. I guess that's the hard part. I look forward to getting to a place of holistic understanding about my situation, and how to remedy it and slowly get back where I can focus on injury prevention. I'll be in a better headspace once I get there.
PM me if you want me to share with you all the stuff my PT gave me to do for my patella issues - I did the work daily for about 7 years.
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Old 09-24-21, 08:29 AM
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Thanks for all the pro tips everyone! I do appreciate it! As a disclaimer - I want to mention that I will actually be getting some medical assistance soon both in network (Kaiser) and potentially someone that I'm in contact with who is an DPT/OCS in San Diego and a cyclist. Kaiser is kinda Meh with specialist/sports stuff IME but that's the most cost effective so I'll start there.

Who knows - maybe I'll come out of this with some more power if I do get some imbalance and firing issues sorted out! That would be neat. In the meantime I'm learning, being proactive, getting my exercise other ways (swimming) and making sure I stay healthy and lean.
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Old 09-24-21, 10:56 AM
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Ran 8 miles on mostly trails at an easy pace yesterday. Felt good but now I'm all sorts of sore, mostly the outer part of my knees. Doesn't feel like injury, more like just not being used to that sort of impact.
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