RiddleOfSteel

Well, I thought I'd be sailing into build completion with silver brake lever blades, but upon perusing a now open Bike Works, I found some mint gloss black Tektro R200 levers. Shucks! More black? More black. I'll lose some silver accent 'theming' with the loss of the silver lever blades, but will not have to completely disassemble my Trek 510's entire cockpit to switch its R200 levers out (and put them on the 620). The 510 has bar-end shifters in addition to brake cabling, so it's a full meal deal disassembly that I now don't need to do!

With the all black levers on and the stem, bars, and levers properly tightened, the 620 is as assembled as it can be until I get the decals on. Two more days!


The hoods look angled up a bit more than one would think, but consider the addition of bar tape levels the line from the hood notch (thumb and index finger webbing forward-most position) to the turns/tops of the bar, which is the goal. Most hands, or palms more specifically, are longer/wider than the brake lever body is long, and I've been missing the broad and flat setup for a bit now. My 510 has its lever bodies angling into the Noodle bars--not an all day comfortable position, though decent enough thanks to the R200's lever body shape.


Great rake going on here from the saddle down to the stem and levers.

RiddleOfSteel

FINALLY. THE DECALS HAVE ARRIVED.

And straight away I've put them on. Let's see some before and after, shall we???

Right off the top is a drive side, top tube application. Totally no pressure there! I used all the measurements-from-someplace (that I had previously recorded) and spotted them with blue tape. There is a faint horizontal-ish line drawn to denote the horizon or "level" (with respect to the top tube) to help me align things. I ended up doing more of these alignment markings to help myself apply the decals in the correct orientation and position (in relation to lugs, shifter braze-ons, etc).


This ended up being the very last decal applied. The lynchpin of the whole operation, IMO!


British spelling for British tubing...


This is the second "620" chain stay protector I've ordered from Velocals. Still silver for the text color, even.


Can't forget the "USA" badge!


The moment before the Moment of Truth....

RiddleOfSteel

NAILED IT.



The 'metallic silver' decal color really picks up the light.


This looks a little more matte, due to light angle, but all decals were of the "gloss" (and thus more expensive) variety. Worked really well.


Some of the only actual color on this frameset.


I guess we know what model it is. I almost forgot!


Lookin' sharp!


It is now time to build!!! It may be late tonight, but I have a few hours. Tomorrow is busy, but with good things. Hoping to have a fully operational battle station within the next day or so. I want to clean the chain as it is dirty again even though it's not gone through water. At least while everything else is clean and/or new, I'd like it for the 'presentation' of it all. I'll aim to get the brakes done tonight. The pads are all set up and brake arms labeled.

Jasongrace313

Added photo
I acquired a 1985 Trek 620 Cirrus a couple of days ago. I have several bikes that are close but not perfect.
My hope is to have this be the quiver killer, and eliminate the shortcomings of the others. I greatly appreciate that you shared the steps and findings on this adventure. Beautiful work!

RiddleOfSteel

Thanks! Mid-'80s Treks, and certainly ones from 1985-1987/8 or so, were quite feature-rich. DT shifter braze-ons, two or three bottle cage mounts, plenty of 700C wheel and tire accommodation, sorted canti post placement (well, they'll take 700s at least!), etc. The 620, for my size and weight (200 lbs), with its 'lesser' tubing specs (aka thicker) when compared to the top level 720, works really well with what I want to do with it, primarily as it relates to out-of-saddle climbing and accelerating. If the 720 is anything like my '79 510 (which is 350g lighter for the frame and fork, which is a lot), it won't be as eager when I want/need it to be. Of course, I'd sure like to find that out for myself! lol.

What size is your 620? If you can get to 10 posts (over two days), then you can post pictures so we can all see it. I know you started a thread on it (good idea), and you can tell us what you have for bikes and what you want this one to be. If it's still on it's original 27" wheels and you're looking for more tire and wheel options (as well as lighter and stiffer wheels that won't feel slow-witted), a halfway decent set of 700C wheels and tires will make a marked difference in feel.

Jasongrace313

Yes, they are feature rich. I believe mine is a 62. I have Phil Wood hubs and Wobler magnesium hoops, not sure of the spokes but they have 27x1 1/4 tires.
Same color scheme as your original, but it has A bunch of mismatched parts as the previous owner worked at a local bike shop, Campy brakes, DeoreXT front and rear derailleurs, Stronglight cranks, Ritchey Comp headset, bar end friction shifters. I can’t wait to share pictures.

Jasongrace313

I’m a Clydesdale myself at 225 lbs, the ride as it sits is very stiff. My first thought was to set up a wheel set of 700’s with 35mm’s but your thread has opened my mind to 40+

RiddleOfSteel

Many things go into how stiff a bike feels, and that's apart from the frame. I only say this as one who has had experienced a pretty good amount of the spectrum. Obviously the first part of how stiff a bike can feel is our expectations of what is stiff or not. Secondly, context, with regard to what bikes we've had or not had. Then comes the tires, the tire pressure, and wheels. But let us not forget the saddle! A crappy fitting or feeling saddle can ruin a perfectly good bike. Or at least dampen its enjoyment (see my Trek 510 with super firm Prologo saddle). Next comes the stem/bar/brake lever setup. Too low where you grab onto the bars and/or brake lever hoods? Uncomfortable due to saddle to brake lever drop. Un-ergonomic front end setup that cranks your wrists out/down/awkwardly? Sure fire way to make a totally fine bike feel like punishment.

Everybody has a different threshold for pain and/or annoyance. I've trial-and-error'ed a lot over the last eight or so years, taught myself a bunch, and concluded with what I want to put up with and what I don't, vanity be damned. One can have 38mm tires that are battleships both in weight and in puncture resistance, yet they weigh a billion pounds, feel horrible over bumps, and roll slowly. Conversely, one can have 30mm tires that are sublime. There is a pretty strong pay-to-play correlation, but ~$50 for the Soma Supple Vitesse EX tires that I really like strike a great balance between weight, durability, looks, performance, and price. Spend more for Rene Herse, or spend less for Panaracer Paselas (which perform plenty decently). Comfort is its own ecosystem, and these two paragraphs are a distillation of a number of years and a ton of experimentation, thought, and realization. I'm not done learning here, but I'm in a real good place I think.

RiddleOfSteel

Quick update: Last night, after helping a friend move, I got to building up the 620. Between that, dinner, and Tour de France highlights, I was unable to get it done in time for a sunset maiden voyage. Threading the rear shift cable through the chain stay was not happening, and my under-the-down-tube Ribcage bottle cage was about 3.5mm from the 39T chain ring, which means I need to wedge/angle that cage away from Chorus crankset, or employ some standoff spacers a la vintage Cannondale ST's. This would not be an issue if the crankset were my triplized Dura-Ace units, but the present issue is not insurmountable. A few snags had to be expected even if I didn't as "they worked just fine on the other bike." I will say the bike is looking good, and that the choice to go satin black was the best one I could have made. Oh, and it's a bit lighter than I thought it was going to be.

Jasongrace313

I had a couple extra sets of 700c wheels so I grabbed the widest ones I could find and tossed some 41mm Surly Knards on them. Gnarly, is the best way of putting it.

RiddleOfSteel

But the real question is, did they fit your bike?

RiddleOfSteel

Ok, everyone, we have a fully operational battle station!

First thing to get done was fishing the rear shift cable through the chain stay fully. With the rear derailleur hooked up, it was time to tune. The photo below shows how easily the 7700 GS rear derailleur handles a 32T large cog (B-tension screw wound all the way in).


Just for fun, this is the 2mm chain stay gap between my Chorus crankset's 39T chain ring and the frame. Good times!


As mentioned in a previous post, the combination of super snug chain ring position and the ribcage-like wraparound design of the bottle cage in the exact area it couldn't be presented a problem for the third and final bottle cage placement. Here I am trying some valve stem nuts as spacers. Not a fan of the look but did it work?


Oooooh, we are close! I have my doubts as to whether the chain, when shifting to or from the big ring, will hit it.


Dang it. 1mm or so too close. I don't mind close quarters, but even ol' Riddle was out of options here.


On to my next solution! Cut off the ends of old bottle cage band clamps (for bikes without bottle cage bosses, like my old Paramount), where the two ends loop around to have a screw threaded through them and nut to secure them to the down tube, then offset them on the top and bottom of the bottle cage to 'present' a 'flat' interface/mating surface to both the bottle cage bolt as well as the bottle cage boss. The bolts and bosses are happy, the bottle cage is securely fastened, and crucially, the bottle cage is canted away from the chainrings, giving us our desired gap. As a bonus, this is completely reversible if a new crankset with a more generous chain ring situation is installed.


The angle looks more dramatic than it is, and there's still plenty of room between the cage and the NDS crank arm. I gain those last couple of millimeters needed and don't have to resort to a bulky, clunky looking setup.


Comparatively palatial now. Shifting between rings was perfect--no interference! Now it's time for a test ride!!!

Roger M

Looking good RoS.

If you need to move the cage more

"Wolf Tooth B-RAD Mounting Bases - Shifting bottle cages, add tools – Wolf Tooth Components" https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/...cessory-device

BTW, if you don't mind sharing, I would like to know who your powdercoater is?

RiddleOfSteel

Thank you!

The cage is fine, as I just got back from a test ride. All is well! Thanks for the Wolf Tooth link. They make a lot of great 'problem solver'-type components.

I took the frame to Forever Powder Coating in Olympia. They've done a ton of bikes, and IIRC do the powder coating for a local (quality) framebuilder. Price was considerably less than Seattle Powder Coat (combined sand blast + single in-stock color).

RiddleOfSteel

FINALLY, ladies and gentlemen, the Super 620 is complete! Here it is, in all of its 50-shades-of-black, modern-and-vintage, 22.95 lb glory.





We're going to have to take this stem to 11 (cm) as the reach isn't long enough (I feel a bit bunched up). I knew this, and it's staying until a suitable replacement can be found.


The Zipp carbon bars are wonderful, but will ultimately be too narrow. I do have 42cm (vs. these 40cm) bars, but they are aluminum and are not going on this 620.


Logo stacking here, just in case anyone needed to know who some of the major players were in this two-wheeled composition.

RiddleOfSteel

Firstly, the bike looks EPIC (to me). Satin black is perfect for it, and I couldn't be any happier with how it turned out or with how all the components went with it.

How does it ride, then? Superbly! After a nice month with the 510, it is so nice to get back to a bike/frame that is eager to work with me when out of the saddle. Sure, the stem/bar/reach situation takes a little adjustment as that setup is slightly out of the norm for my bikes (and certainly compared to the 510, which is dialed in), but it's easy enough to deal with either on the bike or just through the exchange of components. The 32T big cog helps make trundling up 10-12% grades easy when in the saddle. It's not stump-pulling triple, but for a reduced-complexity 2x setup, it's fantastic.

Comfort is superb as well thanks to this particular Prologo saddle, the carbon seat post, the carbon bars, Tektro levers (at the correct angle), off-the-shelf EVA foam bar tape, and of course, the 42mm Somas. Surprise road "features" are dealt with in a truly night-and-day fashion when compared with the 510, which has no shortage of quality components (in addition to its quality frame).

The brakes are absolute vices. It's not even a contest with other systems, and that includes fancy pants hydraulic road brakes (that were professionally set up). You'll have to recalibrate your sensitivity (pulling power), but if you want to stop and stop NOW, these are the ticket. Normal length V or mini-V, cheap or spendy, it's the best way to haul you down from any speed. I personally welcome the seemingly outsized stopping force, because I've dealt plenty with inferior systems, and while that may be passable for milder terrain and traffic situations, it is wholly insufficient (or simply dangerous) in steep-hill, manic-traffic Seattle proper. I realize this frame modification doesn't work for all (touring) bikes/bike colors and compositions as the resulting component choices bias toward Fast and All Black and Modern Angles (blaarrggg!!). Paul Components (if you can swing them) or a dig through the crates, CL, or eBay to find some polished silver diamonds-in-the-rough may be your next best bet. For now, you can let my heresy here be a reference point to either consider and work from, or avoid!

This pad's toe-in angle will actually need to be adjusted. The front end shudders a little under braking, so that will be dealt with quickly.


A little silver TREK decal viewing here.


Glad Velocals made a 531CS decal, I will tell you that!


Ye olde Chorus crankset and 7400 front derailleur.


The hardest working rear derailleur in my fleet, past and present.


TRPs looking right at home if I do say.

Jasongrace313

Man! That is one nasty beast! I love it, great work.
I took mine out with the 41's on it, my son and I raced down alleys, and rode through ditches, ended up at the local skate park where I dropped in on it.
The brakes gotta go.
I'm going to have some wheels made for it, using some hubs I already have. I'm not certain on each of the changes that need to be made just yet, but I was amazed by the potential today.
It was absolutely outstanding at absorbing all the normal chatter I know beat for beat around my neighborhood. A few times maybe a little too plush, like riding a marshmallow or an old-school Cadillac.
However, once it got cruising up above 15-18 it felt extremely confident and almost effortless, like when you get a big boat planed out, I understand completely why it's a great touring bike.

Your thread has been highly motivational and I can't wait to share and learn as I put mine together.

I look forward to gaining the ability to share some photos but I'll change my Avatar to the shot I got today before my son recorded my hitting the ramps.

RiddleOfSteel

Thanks! I had it out today for a sunset ride to a local park/overlook, and was completely flying on the way back.

A 620 dropping in on a 1/4 pipe or anything skate park related: that's a new one for me!

Big tires are a paradigm shift. Your Surly 41s are a whopping 630-660g a piece, vs. my Soma 42s at 395g each, so 200g+ lighter at each end. That can make a big difference in feel, getting that rotational weight down. Of course, depending on what you want to do with the bike will dictate tire choice. There are a number of great gravel tires (aka they have tread/knobs) that are of similar weight to my Somas, so those may be worth checking out should you be so inclined. Thankfully, the 620's stouter tubing punches pretty well, so you can push it (casing it, probably not so much) and it'll work with you. Since I'm going for road supremacy, the light wheels and light tires aid the speed-over-terrain factor considerably over the same Somas, but in 33mm size. I'm in the big 53T ring like if I had a compact (50/34T) double crankset. Crazy!

sdn40

Glad that your build has met your expectations. Congrats.
Interested in your feelings on downtube shifters. Many of your builds have gone away from them (for good reason IMO). That's a long way to reach no matter how long your arms are. I have 36" arms and some days I actually get pissed that I have to reach down to shift - LOL. Interested in your thought process on that

Kobe 

To be honest i thought the choice of black over the original blue was a mistake. I stand corrected, your choices of colors and parts were superb!

RiddleOfSteel

Thank you.

The choice for downtube shifters revolved around a few things for me, firstly that I had them and very much like them and what they represent as far as C&V history (but now with more gear choices!), and secondly that it drops a good bit of weight in comparison to bar-end shifters or STI/Ergos. Complexity of setup is reduced, and awkward grip situations when in the drops is avoided (fingers not hanging up on the cable). Bar-ends, like on my 510, are logically superior in convenience and speed-of-gear-change. STIs/Ergos are even better than that. I like the Tektro levers, and having to still operate the downtube levers, which, with a tuned system, do not put a shift wrongly. There is a fair bit of contrarian in this build along with plenty of "these area a few of my favorite things."

The DT Swiss wheels are 11-speed capable, and I do have a 11-28T Ultegra 11-speed cassette that is just waiting for the rest of its drivetrain. At this point, I don't want to make this bike any more expensive. I just want to use what I have plus the planned brake and headset upgrades I had for this build vision. Would I like to employ some Dura-Ace 9000 pieces in the future? You bet. It's been on my wish list for a while, but things start getting space age aesthetically (aside from more expensive, of course) pretty quickly and I like keeping the slender and beautiful look of the Chorus cranks and Dura-Ace derailleurs with the standard diameter tubing.

sdn40

Can't argue with anything you said. But some days it sure is nice to 'tap' 'tap'
I'll send you 6 feet of surgical hose so you can drink from your water bottles - green to match the 531 decal of course

RiddleOfSteel

Your instincts were not misguided in the simplified context of switching colors only, with no consideration given to component choice. That blue was really something else--beautiful hue with that dazzling metallic. With all silver components, it worked very well. Silver components would have looked killer against the satin black as well--I proved that idea with my old '74 Paramount, whose color and composition were the inspiration for this 620. When adding in the Innicycle headset, modern stem, modern bars, TRP brakes, and modern wider wheels--the desire to use those components, in my mind, necessitated a color change. Many "serious looking" components needed a frame color that complemented them. I could have gone with a completely whimsical color like rainbow sparkle metallic or a metallic fuchsia, which would have been really fun and a perfect "un-serious" to balance the "very serious," but this is a tall, stoic, and capable touring bike frame. Wild colors on a race bike or cruise-around bike would be perfect, and that'd be fun to do. For the 620, those fun colors would have been, IMO, 'disrespectful' to the 620. There's some internal thinking at work as well--our bikes or cars or whatever, represent us (choices, values, personality, etc) and I'm not wanting my 'only bike'/'best bike' to give the wrong impression. I know there are plenty of people who don't care about that, but I'm one that does. I put a lot of thought into the bike, thought taken from a lot of experience with it and other bikes. I want the bike to communicate that to others.

Anyways, that was likely a lot more of a response than you expected, but it's partly to explain my thought process on something like this, as well as to perhaps let other people know that it's ok to come up with an overall vision for a bike and then work very carefully to craft the bike to bring that vision to fruition. Again, a lot of people give that sort of thing no thought at all, or very little, and they look at any effort beyond their own as unnecessary or a waste of time, money, and brain space. We all have things we get wound up on, and many of us here get that way for bikes, so I'm happy to 'enable'.

RiddleOfSteel

Oh, the convenience of 'tap tap' is not lost on me! And I would be lying if, on the rides yesterday with it, I didn't say that I wouldn't have minded more convenient shifting locations. But...vanity! (and getting used to downtubes again)

Lol on the surgical hose. My 37" sleeve-length arms will have to manage until then!

Dfrost 

I had the opportunity to examine RoS’s gem at length today. I’ve always enjoyed seeing (and sometimes riding extensively, before his bigger frame fit revelation) many of the bikes he’s transformed.

This Trek is something special, even compared to the majestic ‘74 Paramount that was such a joy. At a distance the proportions are fantastic from any viewpoint. Up close, the subtleties of small gloss details contrast beautifully with the satin frame. The bright silver drivetrain and little details like those curves on the mini-V brakes are fantastic counterpoints along with the perfectly applied silver decals. The big tires, so welcome on our mean and rough Seattle streets, are perfect.

This one is truly “The Best of Riddle”!