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Sore / numb left hand & frame size

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Sore / numb left hand & frame size

Old 04-22-22, 06:49 AM
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maglia_grigia
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Sore / numb left hand & frame size

Hi,

I have had my bike since 2020 - a Bianchi via Narone C2C - purchased 2nd hand. Have been riding mainly indoors, until this year when I got the cycling bug and have been doing a lot more KMs and a number of 2 hour outdoor rides. Up to 1,200 KMs for the year, which is a big move from 900kms total last year, almost all indoors in 20 or 30 min spins.

I tend to ride once or twice a week outdoors, for anything from 1.5 hours to 2.5 hours. I have noticed an increasing problem of a sore / numb left hand that is now cropping up earlier in rides. Having done some research I realise this is a common issue and is down to putting too much weight on my hands. Given I was having no issue on my right hand, I was hopeful that (with my right being my stronger hand) my left hand would build up some muscle and the problem would stop over time. I'm also a heavy guy at around 110kgs, so perhaps losing a bit of weight would help.

I have tried several different set ups in terms of saddle height, bar height, saddle position on the rails etc. however despite improving from where I initially was, the hand problem is not abating and I am at the point where I wouldn't ride outdoors for fear of doing more damage.

Other point is that my bike is designed for longer, relaxed rides - i.e. it's not a race or aggressive geometry.

I believe I have narrowed things down to the bike size being an issue. It is a 55cm frame. With my height at around 182 cm... it seems I should have a bigger frame. I couldn't work out how this would help as, to my mind, this would mean stretching out a bit more to reach the bars. However I think I now see that with a bigger frame, my saddle could be lower relative to the bars so I wouldn't be riding quite so on top of the bike and would naturally put a bit more weight on the saddle and less on the bars.

My question specifically is, has anyone had a similar problem as me with regards to the hand issue and changed to a larger bike and had the problem solved. I should be able to get a loan of a bigger bike at least to test this, but wasn't planning on changing bikes at all, so budget wise - this is a real pain. I'd also be pretty depressed if this is just an issue I will have to deal with and isn't completely solvable, so any reassurance would be appreciated.
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Old 04-22-22, 08:42 AM
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Given I was having no issue on my right hand, I was hopeful that (with my right being my stronger hand) my left hand would build up some muscle and the problem would stop over time.
What did you do to try and build up muscle in that hand? It isn't going to happen just holding on the the hoods or bars.

While a majority seem to think that getting weight off of your hands is the magical solution, I don't.

A large bend in elbows helps absorb the road bumps that hands and shoulders would otherwise bear. Palms in a vertical plane along the sides of the hoods also helps.

Getting back to strengthening that hand, you'll need to do some real hand exercises. Not just hope that it strengthens itself while doing nothing. I've almost always found that strengthening the muscles around the part of my body that is annoying me helps with any pains I might have.
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Old 04-22-22, 08:53 AM
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You're possibly aggravating the carpal tunnel nerve in the left hand.

A bigger frame may not solve your problem. Stretching yourself more will put even more pressure on your hands.

One possible solution is move your saddle all the way back, and get new stem that will bring the handlebar backward and higher.
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Old 04-22-22, 09:19 AM
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Assuming a drop-bar road bike (as opposed to Dutchies, TT, recumbents, etc...)

Starting with a level saddle is a good place to begin. Place the bike vertical. Put a hardcover book on the saddle, then a level on the book & adjust accordingly. You wouldn't believe how common it is to overlook this simple adjustment.

Next: is hand weight. Generally bars are too high & too close. Bike shops do this as a standard out of the box build. It makes bike appealing at the time of sale. This puts your hands in the position of supporting load that should be Bourne by your core muscles. A sore back, neck, shoulders, forearms from your hands literally pushing you back as rides become longer are symptoms of your hand position being too high/close. Having the saddle too far forward in relation to the pedals will also cause you to nudge yourself a bit forward with every pedal stroke. That's forward movement your hands must then push back adding to the hand weight problem.

A similar symptom, hand numbness in the absence of other issues may be that the bars are too low/too far. Your hands (wrists) begin picking up weight again because your torso is too stretched out &/or your core is to weak to support you. Too low also results in a tendency to look at your front wheel, sometimes a sore neck, & a tendency to be more comfortable on the tops with the drops being rarely used.

I have found having the hoods rotated away from you too far causes the wrist to be bent awkward. All sorts of numbness & tingling from agitated nerves is a symptom. It's pretty common to place the hoods perfectly level in relation to the floor or the levers perfectly vertical. It looks good in pictures. The primary hand position should result in a neutral, moreorless straight wrist. Try rotating the hoods toward you so that the hoods fit four palm.

Last edited by base2; 04-22-22 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 04-22-22, 12:36 PM
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I'd first look at how you have placed your hands on the handlebars. You need to have the pressure on your hands in the same places that you would if you doing pushups. Many people with hand numbness are compressing the nerves in their hands because of this. If you have placed your hands correctly, you *can* take considerable pressure on your hands with no numbness. It's not really how *much* weight you put on your hands but *where* on your hands you put it.

Get an anatomic diagram of the nerves in the hand and don't pressure these places. For example, don't hook your thumbs over the hoods where the pressure is on the web of your hand between your thumb and index finger. Don't hold the bars at the turn where it places pressure between the pads on the heel of your hand. Both of these are often done by new riders and they invariably lead to numbness.

In the photo below, the red arrows are the two places mentioned above. Similar issues can happen if you compress the nerves elsewhere on the hand. Notice how this is an issue between any two fingers for all intents and purposes.

I had spent years experimenting with bar tape, gloves, handlebars etc... to get rid of numbness. Then I took at look at the anatomy of the hand and the answer is obvious. Numbness instantly gone and has never returned.


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Old 04-22-22, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by maglia_grigia
Hi,

I have had my bike since 2020 - a Bianchi via Narone C2C - purchased 2nd hand. Have been riding mainly indoors, until this year when I got the cycling bug and have been doing a lot more KMs and a number of 2 hour outdoor rides. Up to 1,200 KMs for the year, which is a big move from 900kms total last year, almost all indoors in 20 or 30 min spins.

I tend to ride once or twice a week outdoors, for anything from 1.5 hours to 2.5 hours. I have noticed an increasing problem of a sore / numb left hand that is now cropping up earlier in rides. Having done some research I realise this is a common issue and is down to putting too much weight on my hands. Given I was having no issue on my right hand, I was hopeful that (with my right being my stronger hand) my left hand would build up some muscle and the problem would stop over time. I'm also a heavy guy at around 110kgs, so perhaps losing a bit of weight would help.

I have tried several different set ups in terms of saddle height, bar height, saddle position on the rails etc. however despite improving from where I initially was, the hand problem is not abating and I am at the point where I wouldn't ride outdoors for fear of doing more damage.

Other point is that my bike is designed for longer, relaxed rides - i.e. it's not a race or aggressive geometry.

I believe I have narrowed things down to the bike size being an issue. It is a 55cm frame. With my height at around 182 cm... it seems I should have a bigger frame. I couldn't work out how this would help as, to my mind, this would mean stretching out a bit more to reach the bars. However I think I now see that with a bigger frame, my saddle could be lower relative to the bars so I wouldn't be riding quite so on top of the bike and would naturally put a bit more weight on the saddle and less on the bars.

My question specifically is, has anyone had a similar problem as me with regards to the hand issue and changed to a larger bike and had the problem solved. I should be able to get a loan of a bigger bike at least to test this, but wasn't planning on changing bikes at all, so budget wise - this is a real pain. I'd also be pretty depressed if this is just an issue I will have to deal with and isn't completely solvable, so any reassurance would be appreciated.
It's hard to tell without more information, BUT I'm your height and I ride 58 and 59cm frames, with 110-120mm stems.

If you put the bike on the trainer, and while spinning along with your hands on the hoods, can you lift your hands off the hoods and not fall on your face? Ideally, you should be able to hold your torso at the same angle as you would if your hands were on the hoods, even with both hands behind your back. Also, how much drop is there from your saddle to the bars? And when you've been riding for an hour or so, do you find yourself preferring to ride on the ramps or on the curve, more than the hoods? If you're in the drops, can you comfortably pedal at a reasonable speed for at least a mile?

One other observation, which is that what you might think the problem is may not be it at all. I got a new bike back in the summer of 2020, and my first ride, with the bars as high as they'd go (maybe a 2" drop from saddle to bars). My hands kept going numb, really quickly. This never happened on my other bikes, which had drops of 3-4 inches. I lowered the bars by moving 2.5cm of spacers from below to above the stem, and the numbness went away. So, it's not necessarily that your bars are too low, but they still might be in the wrong place.
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Old 04-22-22, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
What did you do to try and build up muscle in that hand? It isn't going to happen just holding on the the hoods or bars.

While a majority seem to think that getting weight off of your hands is the magical solution, I don't.

A large bend in elbows helps absorb the road bumps that hands and shoulders would otherwise bear. Palms in a vertical plane along the sides of the hoods also helps.

Getting back to strengthening that hand, you'll need to do some real hand exercises. Not just hope that it strengthens itself while doing nothing. I've almost always found that strengthening the muscles around the part of my body that is annoying me helps with any pains I might have.
It's a fair point re: exercise. Obviously worth factoring this in and trying to build up some muscle / endurance.

Originally Posted by genejockey
It's hard to tell without more information, BUT I'm your height and I ride 58 and 59cm frames, with 110-120mm stems.

If you put the bike on the trainer, and while spinning along with your hands on the hoods, can you lift your hands off the hoods and not fall on your face? Ideally, you should be able to hold your torso at the same angle as you would if your hands were on the hoods, even with both hands behind your back. Also, how much drop is there from your saddle to the bars? And when you've been riding for an hour or so, do you find yourself preferring to ride on the ramps or on the curve, more than the hoods? If you're in the drops, can you comfortably pedal at a reasonable speed for at least a mile?

One other observation, which is that what you might think the problem is may not be it at all. I got a new bike back in the summer of 2020, and my first ride, with the bars as high as they'd go (maybe a 2" drop from saddle to bars). My hands kept going numb, really quickly. This never happened on my other bikes, which had drops of 3-4 inches. I lowered the bars by moving 2.5cm of spacers from below to above the stem, and the numbness went away. So, it's not necessarily that your bars are too low, but they still might be in the wrong place.
I tried to hold the position on the trainer and I can do it ok. I don't have brilliant core strength, so it wasn't exactly a position I could hold for long, but I wasn't falling onto my face. I can certainly apply much less pressure onto my hands when pedalling hard - but obviously can't pedal hard all the time.
There is definitely a drop from my saddle to the bars. Just eyeballing it with a golf club placed on the saddle, it could be as much as 8 cm. I have moved the bars up throughout this process using the spacers, so they are maxed out and have been lower previously. Therefore I can see how a larger bike will mean I can have a lower saddle relative to the bars.

I have also spoken to another cyclist tonight who has had this problem occasionally. He has gotten results with bigger tyres and a bit lower pressure, as well as double bar tape - all to cut down on the vibrations. Has also suggested tubeless tyres and a suspension device that can be fitted to the stem to reduce vibrations further. Could be that a number of different factors could all improve things and there is no magic bullet.

Can hopefully get a loan of a larger bike this week.
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Old 04-22-22, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by maglia_grigia
It's a fair point re: exercise. Obviously worth factoring this in and trying to build up some muscle / endurance.



I tried to hold the position on the trainer and I can do it ok. I don't have brilliant core strength, so it wasn't exactly a position I could hold for long, but I wasn't falling onto my face. I can certainly apply much less pressure onto my hands when pedalling hard - but obviously can't pedal hard all the time.
There is definitely a drop from my saddle to the bars. Just eyeballing it with a golf club placed on the saddle, it could be as much as 8 cm. I have moved the bars up throughout this process using the spacers, so they are maxed out and have been lower previously. Therefore I can see how a larger bike will mean I can have a lower saddle relative to the bars.

I have also spoken to another cyclist tonight who has had this problem occasionally. He has gotten results with bigger tyres and a bit lower pressure, as well as double bar tape - all to cut down on the vibrations. Has also suggested tubeless tyres and a suspension device that can be fitted to the stem to reduce vibrations further. Could be that a number of different factors could all improve things and there is no magic bullet.

Can hopefully get a loan of a larger bike this week.
Here's a trick for measuring your bike - I park my bike in the kitchen, with the rear tire against a door, and the bike JUST BARELY leaning on the counter, so it's standing almost vertical. I mean, it's so close to vertical that if I very gently nudge it away from the counter it will fall over. Make sure the front wheel is straight, too. Next, I measure from the floor, and the door, to the center of the bottom bracket. After that, I measure the distance from the saddle, the bars, etc. to the wall and the floor. That way you don't have to mess around with levels and such. Just use a stiff tape measure. By doing this, you can get all kinds of measurements just by a little arithmetic. BTW, most of my bars are 8-9 cm below the saddle. Of course, we could be built differently, with different flexibility, etc.

When you get on the bike, your hands should just fall naturally to the hoods, and you shouldn't feel like you have to reach out for them, or like you're pushing off them. If you don't know what I mean, tilt your saddle nose up, or nose down and you'll feel it!

I don't know about your roads, but I have no numbness using unpadded gloves and relatively thin bar tape. I would optimize position first, before trying to ameliorate a bad situation with padding. WRT tire size and pressure, yeah, that can help. So can better tires, surprisingly. Still, I didn't have numbness problems back when I ran 23mm tires at 120 psi, so unless you're riding on really rumbly roads, some of those fixes seem more like trying to paper over a bad fit.
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Old 04-23-22, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by maglia_grigia
Hi,

I'm also a heavy guy at around 110kgs, so perhaps losing a bit of weight would help.

.

I would seriously address that. Not sure that hand tissues and nerves can be trained to cope with large extra pressure for a long time.

A numbers of years ago, soon after I restarted cycling, I came from 85 kg to 75 kg in 2 months, after a total of 1600 km at a strong pace over the period. Rides were 1.5-2 hours long, but frequent. I would probably continue to loose weight, but I think there was not very much spare left for my 186 cm height. I didn't starve during that period, nor did I cut my beers... . If I had at that moment the actual modern setup of a smart trainer and cycling application, I think I could do the same with virtual rides on my balcony.


A longer frame (longer reach) generates other issues, back and arms related. Not to mention the awkward situation where you simply can tot raise your front wheel to jump over a small obstacle. I've been there and I had to change the frame one size shorter. I ride now 57 frame with 8cm (or maybe 10?) stem. At 182 cm height, I guess that a 55 frame with 8-10 cm stem might not be too short.

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Old 04-24-22, 04:13 AM
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Two things leap to mind. Perhaps your right hand doesn't suffer the same issue because you use it to shift much more often than your left hand. Thus causing more blood flow than the left had stuck in one position much of the time. Just a thought. Also.....don't fall into the trap of sizing a bike by overall height. I'd start with inseam and reach to the bars aka TT length. More or less. Go get a fit.

FWIW I am 175 mm in height and ride a 54/55 w/55 TT. Perfect. But, it's not because of my height. It's because my inseam is 32.5" (82.5 cm) and I am relatively proportional. I have a friend who is my height but with a 34" inseam and my 54/55 is too small for him. Again go for a fitting.

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Old 04-24-22, 12:07 PM
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Frame size is an out of date concept. Some brands use numbers and others use letters, which makes both meaningless. Use stack and reach instead. Saddle to bar drop is also a meaningful measure. These days, frames increase stack by 20-25mm between sizes. Reach comparison is a bit tricky. If two frames are compared that have a 20mm difference instack, subtract 6mm from the reach of the smaller frame to get the difference in reach at the same stack height. I've always used an 8-10cm saddle to bar drop, which is a lot for a 168cm rider.

Moving the saddle back will reduce the pressure on your hands. I like to have a little upward angle to the area of the brake hood where my palm rests. I use a digital level to measure and usually have about 8 degrees up. Level hoods feel sloping down to me and cause pressure at the crook of my thumb.

I've had left hand numbness problems on occasion, but it's just gone away on it's own. Can't explain that, other than I took almost 8 years off the bike and the problem ended after a couple of 4-5,000 mile years. I rode 5700 miles last year. I've got about 18,000 on my new pair of knees.
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Old 04-25-22, 10:02 AM
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I’ve had this problem ever since I started serious road biking 38 years ago, and that’s on 3 different bikes. 4 counting the MTB. After 2 hours my left hand would be half numb. After 3 hours all of my left and half of my right hand would be numb. After a 5 hour century 100% of both hands and both feet forward of my ankles as well as all of my ass is completely numb! The thing I do to mitigate the problem is to shift my hand grip often, from the hoods to the drops back up to the cross bar, then back to the hoods, etc.

Even on my mountain bike my left hand starts to go numb after just 30 minutes of easy trail riding, and both hands after an hour, but there’s not as many different ways to grip a MTB handlebar!
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Old 04-25-22, 07:11 PM
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I started getting stuff like that and found that I was getting carpal tunnel issues and it was causing the numbness. I ended up having surgery to release the tendon and it completely eliminated the issue on the bike and other things that were aggravating the issue.
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Old 04-25-22, 07:44 PM
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You might be gripping the bar too firmly, it sounds like nerve damage to me, you've been crushing a nerve in the heel of your hand or similar, i reckon... there are lot of ways to hold a road bike's bars, how do you usually do it?

Try not to lock your elbows, keep 'em relaxed, keep everything relaxed... support your upper body with your core more than your arms...

as a quick fix, i suggest rubbing some hot-and-cold cream along the underside of your left forearm, over all those tendons and such, up towards your elbow, before your ride.. it might just help prevent the whole area from tensing up too much.. it can also help recovery after your rides so yeah spend some time appreciating the stink of these creams ^_^
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Old 04-28-22, 07:54 PM
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I always get numbness in my left hand, when I get numbness at all. Over the years, I have chalked it up to the camber in the road ,causing my left hand to be positioned differently on the hood, and generally higher up than my right. If my shoulders are square, I would naturally have more weight on the left side. It's what i tell myself.
Edit: I'm 182cm and ride 60cm frames

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Old 04-28-22, 08:58 PM
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I think it’s because my right hand does a lot more shifting than my left hand, so my right hand is moving a bit more.

When my left hand starts going numb I will just ride with only my right hand on the bar and shake out my left hand until I can feel it again.
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