donm1967

Hey all,
I've been riding my new/first endurance road bike for about 2 weeks. I rode a hybrid (flat bar, more aggressive posture than the typical upright position) forever. I've been plagued with lumbar back problems most of my adult life (now 54 yo). I started riding longer and faster after my 2nd lumbar surgery in Jan 2020, hence my desire to upgrade to a road bike. I have no problem touching my toes, but in general don't have great flexibility in my spine.
Now my questions on fit. The reach feels a little far to me, but I am able to keep a bend in my arms. My hands get a little sore riding on the hoods after an hour, and I find it more comfortable to hold on an inch or so back from the hoods. Also my lower back feels a little tight the day after a ride. Saddle feels fine. I'm thinking that I just need more time to get used to the position and gain flexibility so waiting a while before getting a professional fit. I probably need more core work to help support my upper body vs relying on hands. Also I do not yet have clipless pedals/shoes and use toe straps.
I took video of myself on a trainer and my position didn't look bad (in my amateur opinion). Here's a screen shot of me on the bike. Anything stand out wrt fit that I should consider adjusting now?

Thanks, Don

Iride01 

My palms are more on the side of the hoods and the pad of my thumb rests on the top of them than your hands appear to be. My saddle height varies between 106% to 109% of my inseam. I typically am on the lower part of that range but many times in the middle and rarely at the max.

I measure the saddle height from from the pedal furthest away from the saddle and to the top of the saddle at the imaginary point of the intersection of the seat tube.

My inseam I measure from snug in the crotch to the floor. You can stand against a wall and pull a large book up between your legs and have someone measure top of book to floor or as I do, put a roll up tape measure between your legs and extend the tape to the floor, then add in the measurement of the tape case.

If you care to share those measurements, fine, but I wonder if your saddle is a tad high, but then again it looks a tad low at the same time.

Big thing is how it feels to you for the rides you do. Short rides might feel fine with anything so try to do some of the longer rides you do so you'll know what might suddenly start to annoy you. My issues with fit tend to wait till 40 to 55 miles pass by.

Since you aren't really griping about anything, you probably shouldn't change anything. Our suggestions themselves might make you feel something that really isn't there.

So might be better to come to us for things to try when you are actually having an issue.

philbob57

Are those biking shoes? If they have compressible soles, the distance between seat and pedal may be lengthened as you pedal. I recommend checking out the MacKenzie exercises for lower back pain, if you're not already doing them.

donm1967

I wear running shoes. Should I try something firmer until I go clipless? Maybe MTB shoes?
I stretch every day, and do exercises from my PT on off days (sometimes).

Iride01, my inseam is 33.5" (measured with book). Saddle is about 29". I used KOPS to adjust seat setback.

Carbonfiberboy 

Nice straight back! That looks good. IMO the bike is too small, not so much the seat tube length as the top tube length. The bars should be further away and your saddle should be further back. Or maybe if you moved you saddle back enough, reach would be longer (better) There should be about a 90° angle between your upper arm and your nice straight back. I know the reach feels too long because you've been riding a flatbar bike, but it's not at all. Interestingly, fellow riders I know have had better luck with sore backs if they went lower and longer, the opposite of the conventional wisdom. I have every frigging thing wrong with my back that the docs can name, and that's what I've found also. Also I do McKenzie exercises every morning (google).

I have a bike fitting primer here: https://www.bikeforums.net/21296948-post3.html
I think you'll find it helpful. Try to get into that position on this bike by following the instructions in order, see what it might take, i.e. a setback seatpost, new stem, etc. If you can't make it work, bike is indeed too small.

donm1967

Wow I wouldn't have thought the bike is too small. I'm 5'10" which put me in between med and med-large, and I went med-large. Note I have long arms. Any larger and I think stand-over would be tight. I'll try moving the seat back a bit and see how it feels, and also read your post.

Carbonfiberboy 

It all depends on where your height is. Once you get your saddle in the right spot, you'll have a better feel for it and your hands won't get sore anymore.

You're pointing your toes at the bottom a little bit, so your saddle might also be a little too high. The heel-on-pedal test will be the tell.

donm1967

I moved the seat back a little and rode 27 mi this morning. Felt pretty good, a little better on the hands but not a huge difference. At first I did feel a little more effort in hamstrings, but not more than quads, which I think is good.
Heel-on-pedal, I can lift off the seat some so maybe seat could be higher?

Carbonfiberboy 

Maybe could be higher. I go by whether I can feel a strong pull-back at the bottom and the start of the upstroke. Too low and my leg feels cramped, too high an it feels like I have less power at the bottom. Usually with heel on pedal, you want to have no pressure on the pedal at the bottom. Some folks have a 4mm gap. The big thing which makes this more difficult to assess is that you don't want to be rocking your hips at all trying to keep your heel on the pedal. Sometimes I go out and do it on a quiet street, pedaling slowly, one heel on the pedal, then the other, consciously not rocking my hips. Shoe also makes a difference. This test assumes cycling shoes with essentially no raised or thick heel.

Move the saddle back until, like the video in my link says, you can play the piano on your bars. As you move the saddle back, it also has to go down a hair.

I just realized that you may not be using pedals with foot retention, either clipless or toe clips and straps. Almost all modern fit discussions assume that one has foot retention.

Moisture

From the looks of it, in your picture I think your saddle is mounted too far backwards. Maybe slightly too low. Looks like you've raised it a bit though.

It looks like a comfortable fit to me, at least in the hoods. You might want to try a bit shorter stem and wwork towards riding in a position with your hoods more or less level with the saddle, simply without feeling too stretched out.

All in all, I think its a great fit for you.

Trakhak

Saddle looks too high. The heel-on-pedal guideline was reasonably reliable in the days when bike racers, who were usually the people who were looking for sizing guidelines, invariably wore leather-soled racing shoes that lacked a heel. Sizing performed using running shoes with an inch or more of padding at the heel is inaccurate and usually results in a saddle position that can be too high by an inch or more, especially if the rider later switches to cycling-specific shoes.

Iride01 

29" measured from the top of the saddle to the pedal when furthest away? That's low to me. Though I don't see it that much low in the pic. Did you measure instead to the center of the crank or BB?

If the 29" was to the center of the crank, then just guessing at the crank length that would put the saddle at about 35.5" which is at the lower range of 106% your inseam. So you aren't off in the saddle height enough for it to be a big issue. At most you probably should not raise it more than an inch. But that might have you dropping a hip while pedaling and your lower back won't like that.

Don't go overboard pushing your saddle back looking for that magical balance that takes pressure off your hands. That's a mystical thing IMO and when you achieve that, you will be in way less than optimal position for pedaling and will expend more effort that won't be turned into power at the cranks. And you later might get to wondering why your metrics aren't that great.

donm1967

Thanks for all the replies. It's sounding more like I need a professional fit with someone that can assess my capability/flexibility.
The 29" measurement was top of seat to center of BB. This is the same that I use on my hybrid. BTW I am using toe straps, and did so on my hybrid also. I'm waiting on going clipless until I get more time on the bike (don't want too many changes at once).
Tonight my lower back is a little tight/sore, but not sure if that's from moving the seat (I only moved it back about 1 cm) or the longer ride.

Iride01 

The reason I measure to the pedal when furthest away from the saddle is because that eliminates crank length differences of multiple bikes from causing your saddle height to be incorrect.

While I have an ideal crank length for me. Knowing what my saddle height to the pedal will almost always get me a good height on other bikes that have different lengths of crank.

I use to think that was the one and only correct way to measure saddle height, but I see so many others now measuring to the BB center. Just more to confuse.