focallength

Ok, I got a ticket because I had my front light flashing. Ive done some research and all Ive been able to find under the CVC is that you have to have a white light and only officers can have a BLUE flashing light. Nothing says a flashing white light is illegal. So any help is appreciated, thanks.

socalrider

Did this happen during the day or at night?? what city was the ticket issued?

focallength

night about 1030 pm in Riverside Ca.

prathmann

I would try fighting it in court. The only requirement I know of is the one in the CVC 21201:
"(d) A bicycle operated during darkness upon a highway, a sidewalk
where bicycle operation is not prohibited by the local jurisdiction,
or a bikeway, as defined in Section 890.4 of the Streets and Highways
Code, shall be equipped with all of the following:
(1) A lamp emitting a white light that, while the bicycle is in
motion, illuminates the highway, sidewalk, or bikeway in front of the
bicyclist and is visible from a distance of 300 feet in front and
from the sides of the bicycle.
(2) A red reflector on the rear that shall be visible from a
distance of 500 feet to the rear when directly in front of lawful
upper beams of headlamps on a motor vehicle.
(3) A white or yellow reflector on each pedal, shoe, or ankle
visible from the front and rear of the bicycle from a distance of 200
feet.
(4) A white or yellow reflector on each side forward of the center
of the bicycle, and a white or red reflector on each side to the
rear of the center of the bicycle, except that bicycles that are
equipped with reflectorized tires on the front and the rear need not
be equipped with these side reflectors.
The reflectors and reflectorized tires shall be of a type meeting
requirements established by the department.
(e) A lamp or lamp combination, emitting a white light, attached
to the operator and visible from a distance of 300 feet in front and
from the sides of the bicycle, may be used in lieu of the lamp
required by paragraph (1) of subdivision (d)."

This doesn't explicitly say that the lamp in (1) must be a steady rather than a blinking light. And, as you said, the only prohibition is against blue flashing lights - not white ones. Of course you may be technically guilty of not having some of those other items required under sections (3) and (4) - but those are rarely enforced or even known about.

Given how many cyclists I see without any lights at all this sure sounds like a cop who was looking to get you for something. Anything about the circumstances that may have led to his issuing a ticket?

focallength

I commute on the bike so I always comply with the laws (all reflectors/lights rack so I dont have to carry anything, stop at lights ride on the correct side). I was going through Rubidoux coming home after visiting with some friends and all of the sudden this car turns on its lights and comes at me from the other side of the road, I freak and try to get out of its way, they screach to a halt about 5 feet from me and come storming out yelling at me to stop, I didnt eben egt a chance the one cop grabbed my handle bars and almost dumped me. So after a second and being obviously a little peeved I asked why they were stopping me and added that they almost ran me over. I said they should use their red light if they want to stop someone, because I didnt know who they were and thought someone was trying to kill me. They asked if I was on parole and said that I dont tell them what to do. So anyway they ran my ID found I was clean and then said they were going to search my bag. I refused, they did the whole "well you must be hiding something?! if we cant search it, you want us to get a drug dog?! thing" I said look Im not fighting you, you do whatever you have to do, to do your job, but Im not consenting to any searches. At which point they got madder and told me they were going to give me a ticket for having a flashing light and that it must be solid. I didnt say anything after that, one cop went to the car and wrote a ticket for not having a headlight (I dont have the ticket with me. I said I thought I was getting a ticket for having a flashinglight, shouldnt that be on the ticket? because I do have a light. He said just sign it or your going to jail. So, I signed it and went on my way. What Im worried about is going to court and having them say I had no light when in fact I did. I found the same stuff you did, it dosent say anything about a flashing white light, I have a flashing light on my motorcycle and that is supposed to be legal. How could they sell a product with a function thats not legal? Anyway I think they were fishing, found nothing, got pissed because they were hoping to catch a bank robber on a bike and had to do something to justify stopping me. Well, thanks for the help if anyone has any more info or had a similar experience and won in court it may help.

cjbruin

They had a right to stop you because flashing headlights can not be used at night (only during daylight).

I know it's difficult in the heat of the moment but rather than showing that you were "peeved", maybe something like..."I apologize officer. I couldn't tell that it was a police car coming toward me so I panicked." Perhaps they would have just told you that your headlight needs to be solid and sent you on your way. I suspect they perceived you as being confrontational and disrespectful so they made you pay for it. If you think about it rationally, you could probably have predicted what was going to happen based on your actions.

Also, unless you had something to hide, refusing to let them search your bag just made your situation worse. Yes, you were within your rights, but how did that work out for ya?

Edit. My comment was based on my knowledge of laws for motorcycles (see the language in the vehicle code below).

CA Vehicle Code - 25251.2. Any motorcycle may be equipped with a means of modulating the upper beam of the headlamp between a high and a lower brightness at a rate of 200 to 280 flashes per minute. Such headlamps shall not be so modulated during darkness.

Since the code does specify "motorcycle" you might technically have an argument. Perhaps that's the reason why they wrote you for having no headlamp. They may have reasoned that since a headlamp must satisfactorily perform two functions: (1) Illuminate the roadway and (2) Alert other road users to the cyclist's presence...that a flashing light is not capable of doing #1 so therefore you had no headlamp.

prathmann

Thanks for refusing their request for a search. Unless we exercise our constitutional rights in situations like this they'll cease to be effective.

I still recommend fighting the ticket in court. The CVC is not explicit that the headlight has to be a steady light and has no prohibition against white flashing lights either night or day. My expectation is that the officers will have calmed down and realized errors on their part and that they may well choose not to show up in court.

cjbruin

I really don't understand the argument for refusing search requests. Why not simply cooperate with people (yes, police officers are people too)? Sure, it's your right but what does that really buy you...unless you have something to hide? In fact, it actually costs you...time, stress, anger, etc. C'mon people now. Smile on your brother. Everybody get together. Try to love one another, right now.

I also suspect that the officers will show up in court to testify against "the arrogant punk who gave them a hard time" (I'm not making a judgment against the OP...rather what the officers might be thinking). I don't know how much the ticket is but it may cost you less to pay it than spend your time in court.

referee54

I do not know what a LAE is allowed to search on a bike---in Ohio, in a vehicle, he can only search what is in reach...while it may be nice to allow them to search, it is well within your rights not to, even if you have nothing to hide...this idea that "well, you have nothing to hide..." is not put that way inthe Constitution. The constitutionalities of search and seizure are clearly defined, and it doesn't mention at all that one has to commply in order to be nice to the LAE's.

I would agree with the original poster---even if he has nothing to hide, he doesn't have to permit a search without probable cause, etc.

Many LAE's will ask, knowing that they really cannot search it---but if permission is granted, it makes it easier for them to gather evidence without having to do what is actually correct. the LAE's may not like it, but they have to comply with the Constitution, too.

It may cause "difficulties" or hard feelings, but I believe that one has a right to take a stand on their rights.

TSC

jamlo21

You can legally buy all sorts of stuff that really isn't legal. You can buy tint for your car windows that's pretty much black, but that's not legal. You can buy bongs (i think) at smoke shops. and of course, you can buy a car that goes 200 mph when you can't go above 65.

cjbruin

Also, it is legal to operate it during the day. Many people use them on motorcycles during the day to increase visibility. I believe there have been studies that show they are useful in preventing accidents.

referee54

Let me tell ya, in Ohio 65 means 65...but in Michigan, the speed limit is mearly a suggestion...

cjbruin

Again, I'm not stating that you don't have the right to do it. I'm questioning the wisdom in doing so. What is the cost/benefit? You're very likely going to be detained longer for refusing the search, an adversarial situation develops, etc. In this case, it's likely that it cost the OP a ticket that he may not have gotten had he simply cooperated.

So now he can say that he stood up for his rights. OK...but again...How did that work out for him?

DScott

You certainly make it sound like they had a hardon for you, but I'm unsure exactly why that would be. Once you started in with them, though, they tend to take that a little personally I think. It's not right, but so it goes.

I'd go to court, but understand that you may lose the ticket since it's their word vs. yours. Also know that these guys get paid to show up, often overtime, so they have every incentive to be there. I seriously doubt they care one way or the other about you, or what you did, it's just not that important.

Be well prepared, bring the light (and the bike, if you can!), and a coherent and calm story about what happened. If the judge has any doubt about their story, he/she will most likely give you a break. Now, if all you had was a little "be seen" kind of blinky, then all bets are off. Lights used on bikes have to "illuminate the roadway", but then they go on to say you can use a person mounted light and as long as it's visible from 300 ft, it's OK.

What kind of light were you using, and how do you see at 10:30 at night with only a blinking white light?

referee54

Sometimes, one should not take the easy way out. I am not a lawyer, (nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night), but I did have to take a decent # of law classes to get my M.Ed...and a few of my good officiating friends are LAE's---they have told me the tricks they can employ...and asking politely (and somewhat innocently) to search an area that they know is off limits is one of them. Once one says, "OK", well there is no going back.

Sometimes doing the right thing may be somewhat more trying, but isn't that what it is all about?

I would rather sacrifice 30 more minutes of my time than my principles. Sorry, I know too many LAE's---and I know how they work.

TSC

bmclaughlin807

If a right is not exercised, do you really have that right?

I absolutely would refuse to let them search my belongings. Wouldn't be the first time I'd exercised that particular right.

We've given up so many of our rights already... where does it stop?

urbanknight

Because it's harassment. If a cop can search a person for any reason or no reason at all, they can stop you every hour of every day of every week of every month. That could make you late for work and feel like quite the target. I'd be pissed if someone accused me of something for no reason, and that's exactly what they're doing when they ask to search me without cause.


Poor advice. The OP did not break any laws, and these are US cops, not the Gestapo. The OP should either dispute by mail with a photograph of all his illuminating equipment, or show up to court with the bike as ridden that night. After that is done, he should file a complaint because the cops harassed him. They failed to identify themselves as police when they wanted him to pull over, they assaulted him by grabbing his bike while he was riding, and they tried to conduct an illegal search. Such harassment is a crime against humanity. As you said, the cops are humans too, meaning they should act as such themselves.

To the OP: Dispute the ticket, then file a complaint if you wish. Your ticket should have the officer's badge number. Also, read the ticket. Your signing of it is not an admission of guilt. It's just your acknowledgement that you received it and will appear in court.

cjbruin

Be real. Do you really think that if the OP allowed the police to search his bag, there would be a rash of officers pulling every bicyclist over to see what they could find?

You don't know for sure that he didn't break any laws and it doesn't sound to me like they acted as Gestapo. You've made a lot of conclusions about their actions based on very little information.

pmc

Bring a friend to court who say you leave with the light turned on, the ticket is for no headlight not a flasher.

File a complaint for the way you were treated. Like grabbing your handlebars, pulling you over for no probable cuase.

I'm not a lawyer either

urbanknight

I didn't say it would affect all cyclists. My brother was harassed by cops. They profiled his sportscar and would follow him for miles, usually until they reached their jurisdiction limit. They would pull up next to him where ever he stopped and stare him down. That's creepy and harassing, and you're suggesting that the OP succumb to it if those cops choose to continue to harass him.

I'm going on the OP's statement here on the forums and the listed laws. Sure he could be lying, but I'm giving him advice based on what he said. What the heck are you basing your advice on? If you want to welcome harassment from people because you don't want to make waves, that's your choice. I wouldn't stand for it because I refuse to be treated like a criminal if I am not one.

I would appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. Read more carefully before you respond because I don't think you fully digested my words.

Extort

Grabbing the handlebars is their method to prevent the escape of the person they are trying to detain. ---I highly doubt there is any recourse for their actions on this item.

Probable cause is a VERY subjective item and if there were reports of a bicyclist in the area doing something illegal, then the police have fulfilled the probable cause clause. ---I know there is not any recourse for their actions on this item.

If the police did not turn their lights on or identify themselves when demanding you to stop, they will only get a stern look from the judge as a rebuke, but only if the judge also rides a bike... at night. If you see them in court, you can explain why this behavior startled you, but use calm and rational tones to bring up your points and allow them the chance for rebuttal. If this can occur before the hearing, the cops might push for leniency because now they see you during daylight and as a responsible citizen.

Preventing the officer from searching your belongings is well within your rights, however the police then have the right to detain you until more information is gathered and a search warrant could be issued if there is a valid reason to search your bike.


Get a brighter light which has a solid beam and rechargable battery pack to prevent this in the future.

cjbruin

Actually, I'm basing my advice on the same things you are.

There's a very good chance that a judge would side with the officers that a flashing front light does not meet the legal requirement for a headlamp in that it does not provide adequate light. What you deem harassment could just as easily have been their reaction to thinking that he was trying to flee from them.

I did not put words in your mouth...however you clearly need to take your own advice and read more carefully. For the THIRD time, I am not challenging whether it is one's right to deny a search. I am merely questioning the wisdom of doing so just because it is one's right. Just because you are entitled to do something, doesn't mean you should always do it.

urbanknight

Fair enough, but if the officers did not identify themselves as such, the OP should not have been mistaken as fleeing. I'm quite certain that an officer is supposed to identify themselves as law enforcement somehow and demand that the suspect pull over before they just attack you like that.


The grabbing of the bars is only allowed if the OP was resisting arrest. Otherwise, it could be seen as assault, and a good lawyer would have that police department with its tail between its legs if it went that far. As for the warrant, probable cause has to be established for that too, and "some guy on a bicycle doing something illegal" would not be enough.

You are right that the OP needs to be calm when explaning the situation. Any judge in a decent mood and half a mind will dismiss this as a piddly little misunderstanding.

LCI_Brian

Another option is a written "trial by declaration". If you lose that you can still go to court. Take a look at the Nolo Press "Fight Your Ticket" book.

Heckboy

You are wasting your time.

In exchange for a small fee payable to the Riverside Sheriff's Dept you get to have a story to tell for the rest of your life.

Later,
HB