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Motor upgrade to a budget ebike!

Old 12-28-17, 12:11 AM
  #1  
shabydog
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Motor upgrade to a budget ebike!

Hi,
As I love buying a simple chip things and upgrade them(it mostly A bit worthy and just fun) I want to upgrade the motor of my ebike.

The current motor is just an ordinary simple REAR 250W motor.
The battery is 48/18 (or 15...)
The controller is 500W

Sort of An hybrid bike

Anyhow, I'm thinking of upgrade the motor to A better one.
I'm not looking to make it A monster at all...just A nice noticeable change in the performence.

I live out of u.s - so the best thing for me would be buying from Aliexpress OR A chinese on eBay.

Can you please give me some recommendations? I mean - LINKS to products.

Here is the direct link to Aliexpress's ebike motor section:
https://www.aliexpress.com/category/...103.2.5.KHL2eh

Thanks so so much!
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Old 12-28-17, 12:30 AM
  #2  
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Well, anything could be a 250W motor. What's the diameter of the hub. around 100mm? What are you getting for top speed out of it? What's the continuous current out of your controller?

A Bafang BPM
or Bafang CST (if you want cassette) might be a nice upgrade. Hub diameter around 160mm. I don't own one, but I do have a 500W Bafang fatbike motor and that easily gets up to 25 mph on 48V. I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but you probably want the 201 rpm version for 48V.
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Old 12-28-17, 04:24 AM
  #3  
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Hi,
Thanks for the informative answer.
Fortunately I could not get to manage to know the hub diameter detail from my shop.
It is just A generic ebike (like 90% of the market).
Not such A detail on specs.
Is there any other way to know that - like check it physically on the hub?
10x again.
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Old 12-28-17, 04:55 AM
  #4  
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The word "upgrade" means different things to different people.

Faster? Farther? Lighter? Quieter? Pretty colors?

In order to achieve whatever goal it is that you want, one would need to know how fast, how far, how heavy, how loud, your current kit is, or what colors you consider pretty.

It is not possible to give a specific motor RPM recommendation without knowing what size wheel you have now.
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Old 12-28-17, 05:35 AM
  #5  
shabydog
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You defiantly right!

What am I looking to achieve?
A bit from faster & from farther
I assuming that my speed with my 80KG is about 35 if I have a distance. Mean - I need continuous to attain the 35kph.

So YES - i would like to get improvement in these 2 aspects and I think especially on distance the bike need to have the max speed.
Also, improvement when "climbing up" the small ups.

Hope it helpful to you, In order helping me (:
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Old 12-28-17, 08:49 AM
  #6  
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I realize that English is not your primary language, but I think we are using the word "distance" in different ways.

I mean it as maximum range, as in 30km instead of 25km. I think you may be saying to reach a maximum speed within a shorter interval, as in reach 35kmh in 50 meters instead of 80 meters. This is torque or acceleration, also better hill-climbing ability.

Faster is easy, just need a higher speed wind than you have now, OR a higher-voltage battery. Or some of both.

More range needs either a more efficient motor, more battery, more pedaling, or lower speed, or a combination of these.

More Torque needs a different motor or a smaller wheel.

Getting all three of these is difficult if not impossible with motor change alone.

For instance, a Mac motor, at the correct turn count or wind, will give more speed, better acceleration, but less range unless you get a bigger battery.
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Old 12-28-17, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Nelson37
I realize that English is not your primary language, but I think we are using the word "distance" in different ways.
OK,
Thanks for the vocabolary lesson
You know, although I'm not an english native speaker(in that case - writing) - I thing, if not sure, that anyone can clearly understand each&each of the letter I wrote.

Back to the business:

Faster is easy OR a higher-voltage battery
My battery is 48V.

I'm pretty sure that my bicycle motor is not that efficient.
Regarding
more pedaling
: I really dont feel the pedalling. maybe it do helpful at the end, but I do not feel that my mussels are working.

And if we switch the teoretical side to practical side:
Is there anything I can do in order to improve atleast Hill climbing ability?
And it not an hill...just A small raisings on street ***probably "raising" is not the right term, forgive me

Thanks very much!
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Old 12-28-17, 12:31 PM
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Pretty much already answered this.

More powerful motor, smaller wheel (this will reduce top speed), or increased pedaling.

Increasing amp flow to motor could help but with a small motor like what you have, this is not a good idea without details on the motor model, and likely not really feasible.
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Old 12-28-17, 02:56 PM
  #9  
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Summerize: Nothing I can do?
250W motor + battery 48/18 (or 15...) + controller 500W --> Is it the maximum I can do in order to improve atleast "hill"(just on street) climbing ability?
Thanks
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Old 12-29-17, 12:23 AM
  #10  
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Here are two controllers. Both were sold as 500W controllers and can support 48V, but differ in size. The larger one is bigger because it has more driver transistors to push current. It's good for 22 amperes (1000+ watts) , while the smaller one claims 14 amperes (630 watts).

My experience with the little one is that it's very mild. It's too small to really run anything more than a 250W motor. This is why it's hard to offer advice unless we know where you are starting.

If you need a bigger controller, they are not expensive.

Upgrading is a good way to understand your ebikes better, if that's what you want.
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Old 12-31-17, 08:16 PM
  #11  
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Alie Express or Chinese I would check out

??? 1

I have a crystalyte hub motor, "H" series. very happy with it. is a Chinese company I bought from a Canadian vendor I live in Canada I'm using a 56 volt 17 aH battery but 48 volts should work and upgrade later plenty of power uphill. Above people are correct the controller may or may not work but contact crystalyte or dealer with exact specs of your existing controller. Good luck

Last edited by Mark Mandolin; 12-31-17 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 12-31-17, 11:48 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Doc_Wui
Here are two controllers. Both were sold as 500W controllers and can support 48V, but differ in size. The larger one is bigger because it has more driver transistors to push current. It's good for 22 amperes (1000+ watts) , while the smaller one claims 14 amperes (630 watts).
Hi,
I have the bigger one - installed outside.
500W

@Mark Mandolin
Sorry - I'm not into it in order to know which motor I need.
That is why I opened this thread: to have some recommends and to advice with you.

Right now I have the most basic motor.
I dont think you even need any details.
Just a generic simple 250w motor.
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Old 01-02-18, 12:13 PM
  #13  
Mark Mandolin
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??? 1

I am using an "H" series motor with 56 volt battery.
Your 48 volt battery will work but will drain faster at higher speed.
Website won't allow me to post exact page you click on "H series" at bottom of page to get to my motor page. As you see in chart controller is rated in amps not watts as you quoted.
A large direct drive hub such as my "H" series Crystalite will give you plenty of speed and torque to climb hills but your range will suffer.
For greater distance only answer is bigger battery. Bigger motor is faster and more powerful but draws more power from the battery.

The motor can be laced into most popular sized rims. I installed mine into an old mountain bike perfect fit except I needed to file a 1/32 " off inside of derailier mount but otherwise perfect old shimmano derailier of original bike works perfect.
Crystalyte use a bigger gage ( thickness ) of spoke then others. 56 volt 17 amp hrs battery gives me around 35 km range at my maximum speed of 55 kph and me and bike weight approx 260 pounds goes up steep hills easily.
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Old 01-02-18, 03:54 PM
  #14  
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I'm somewhat baffled by speed although the parameters that define it are easily elucidated. Reason is that my 48V, 1000w YES (very inexpensive) motor goes 33 mph (about 55 kph) with a Luna 52V, 10 a-h battery (flat surface, no wind, 180 pound rider, 55 pound bike), and seems to climb well. I would think your Crystalyte would be faster. Even when checking the ebikesca simulator, motors that should be faster, aren't. Didn't mean to hijack the thread, just wanted to point that out.
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Old 01-03-18, 12:16 AM
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2old, my 52 volt battery actually puts out 59 volt s when fully charged. Speedometer set for a 2.35" tire but I'm using a 2.4" if that matters perhaps my bike is around 55 lb and I'm around 235 so really 295 say 300lb me and bike. I guess I underestimated my weight! Sign of old age! For sure I'm not 180 anymore!
It can get technical but 52 volts will spin a motor at a given rpm with no load.
But with no load there is less power being generated as the motor will be drawing less current ( amps ) unlike a gas engine where maximum speed produces maximum torque.
Honestly don't know if your motor more powerful then mine but the more powerful motor would go up a hill faster even if both attained similar top speed on the flats. At least that's my understanding of it. Volts times amps = watts watts is a measure of power.
But the more volts the faster motor spins. 10 volts times 100 amps = 1000 watts and 100 volts times 10 amps = 1000 watts same power but obviously the 100 volt example spins faster

Last edited by Mark Mandolin; 01-03-18 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 01-03-18, 01:43 AM
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Hey Mark, thanks for your reply. My "52V" battery is actually 58.4V off the charger too. Probably my motor is "faster wind" so different power graph (less torque) than yours, but similar top speed.
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Old 01-03-18, 09:52 AM
  #17  
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So, to clarify,

If you have a 48v battery, you don't have a 250 watt motor. Generally the smallest fixed current is 10 amps, so that gives you roughly a 500 watt motor.

Yes, all batteries are charged over their nominal rating. LiFePo4 even more so. The charger has the charging voltage listed on it, that is what you have hot off the charger.
@shabydog, voltage = speed. current = power (torque). I don't know the specs on your motor, but 48v usually gives a pretty strong/fast motor. You could use a 52v battery, but that is going to give you about 8% more speed. Not a lot.

If you want more power (for hill climbing or acceleration) you can get a controller with more current (or just solder the shunt some), or a programmable controller. The problem of course is that if you add more current you add more heat. That means it is easier for things to start melting. Typically you may be able to get away with 20-30% more current if you don't have a lot of hills. Going full power up a hill (or full power anything) for long at LESS than 50% of the motor's cruising speed on flat land is when you start to get into the danger zone.
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Old 01-03-18, 11:52 AM
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Therefore if my 1000 watt motor had 10 amp controller times 52 volt battery I could only generate 520 watts of power. A thirty amp controller = 1560 watts
Shabydog would have to upgrade controller if wanting to upgrade motor. Then the extra power generated would drain battery faster. End up buying a bigger battery
Either way there are technical issues in replacing one component. Ultimately battery controller and motor work together to produce the results you want.
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