snazpizaz

Hi

Seeking some basic advice about pros/cons - ease/issues of building/assembling my own black Brompton wheel set.

I've been quoted by a wheel builder:
1) Black wheels from scratch with a BWR hub. c.£560.
3) Brompton pre-made black wheels convert other parts to all black c.£500-600.

But i'm wondering if i can get that price down by assembling the wheel parts myself.

I was linked to these parts in a previous post:
Black rims:
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rims-tap...black-28-hole/
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rims-tap...black-28-hole/
Half Black rims and spokes:
https://brilliantbikes.co.uk/84-brom...oth-front-rear

So a couple of specific questions:

1. Do i need a 'wheel building jig' or can i do it without as these 2 youtube video guys seem to show:

2. How do i know what size spokes to get ? My wheel set includes a BWR 6 speed rear wheel
https://brilliantbikes.co.uk/84-brom...oth-front-rear
Do Brompton wheels use stright gauge, double butted or single butted spokes ?

3. Is there a specific type of nipple should i use ? I want them in black also which i think seem widely available ?

4. What size inside tape do i need to buy ?

Is there anything else people can think of ?

Much appreciated..

sp

Blackstrida_A_

Hi snazpizaz,

yes, I do think that you should be able to cut down the costs for your Brompton wheel set by DIY.
But the main question will be how much effort you want to put into this challenge, I hope you don't underestimate wheel building.
(Several years ago I was, it seems, in a similar situation as you are right now, I just wanted my own wheels for my Strida bikes.)

1. You don't. But it makes the wheel trueing process much more convenient.
Consider that trueing one wheel may take hours (especially for beginners), you don't want to kneel such a long time next to your bike.
But also I'd recommend here DIY to save lots of money; a simple"ladder"-like construction, made of aluminum tube, plus one, better two cheap dial gauges will work perfect.
That's my starter equipment:



2. If you want to know the correct spoke length then you'd need first the hubs and the rims.
Next step is to determine the required data (ERD, spoke flange diameter, spoke hole diameter, width, crosses, etc.) and throw it into a spoke length calculator program/app/page.
(I've used always at least two different programs and averaged the results.)
sapim.be/spoke-calculator
kstoerz.com/freespoke
prowheelbuilder.com/spokelengthcalculator

3. Sapim Polyax nipples may have advantages for wheel sizes below/equal to 20" I'm sure.
sapim.be/nipples/design/polyax
ginkgo-veloteile.de/SAPIM-Polyax

I'd recommend the use of screwdriver type spoke wrenches particularly for black nipples.
(Turning them at the square taper leaves ugly marks immediately.)
Love this rotating type:
sjscycles.co.uk/tools/birzman-rotation-nipple-screwdriver

4. Guess the standard rim tape will do it (?)
brilliantbikes.co.uk/50-brompton-rim-tape-double-wall

Yes.
- For my meaning; in the first video above one can't really comprehend the lacing process.
In the second one, it's not done correct.
It doesn't make sense to start with inserting all spokes at the same flange.
In my opinion, it works best this way (while it is equal if the start is left or right):
1. Right side, the pushing spokes (heads out)
2. Left side, the pushing spokes (heads out)
3. Right side, the pulling spokes (heads in)
4. Left side, the pulling spokes (heads in)

Please note that in the following video the guy was lacing in three-cross:
This guy refers to lacing only, here are hints missing for de-stressing (stress relieving) of the spokes.
Mentioned "poker", to hold the nipples, can be very helpful at deeper rims:
sjscycles.co.uk/tools/icetoolz-spoke-wrench

- Regarding correct spoke tension I'd recommend the "sound by ear method" (measuring spoke tension using musical pitch).
sheldonbrown.com/spoke-pitch

- Building wheels can be pretty frustrating, for my first lacing there were five or six attempts required...
But finally, it is a highly satisfying feeling to roll on your own wheels

Cheers,
Chris

ETRTO 406, 32h in two cross, two leading, two trailing spoke pattern



ETRTO 355, 36h in three cross, three leading, three trailing pattern

Tourist in MSN

This is a pretty good link to how to build wheels.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Expect to spend hours figuring it out.

I have never built a wheel smaller than 24 inch, have never used hubs narrower than full size bike hubs, I can't really say much about how things may be different for small wheels. Full size bike wheels are often three cross, but on smaller wheels that might not be the norm. If the other small wheels you see are different, there is a reason for that.

I do not own a truing stand, I use the frame and rim brake blocks as my truing stand, frequently taking the wheel out of the frame and putting it back in the frame the other way to check dish error.

Do not get rushed in truing, I often finish up a wheel making quarter or eighth of a turn adjustments of the nipples.

I lack the tools for spoke tension checking, I usually just try to make sure that my tension is about the same by feel with other wheels. On one of my bikes that I built for expedition touring, someone at a bike shop checked my spoke tension for me. My other wheels, I have not bothered.

Cost of spokes and nipples can be quite variable. But short spokes for small wheels might be hard to find, thus you might not have much choice.

snazpizaz

thanks so far folks - v helpful

1. Does 'truing' refer to aliginging the wheel within the bicycle frame so the axle sits correctly ?
2. Re: 'expect to take hours figueing it out' - was hoping considering the small size and wide popularity of Brompton that the knowledge required may be easy and common knowledge'

I just need to know :
1. What spoke sizes to buy for a the Stumley Archer BWR 6 speed rear wheel hub and the generic front wheel spindle ?
2/ What nipples to use on a Brompton wheel and spoke set ?
Lets see .....

cheers
sp

Winfried

You should have the ERD from the rim manufacturer.

Then, look up the hub here, and it'll tell you what spoke length to use depending on the lacing:

https://kstoerz.com/freespoke/hubs

I can confirm from experience it's a good idea to dip the spoke ends into oil before assembly, or the spokes might "sing" while riding. Pros recommend flaxseed, but I used regular oil.

Other tip: Use a sliced Q-tip to hold the spoke nipple before tightening; A simple trick to avoid dropping it into the rim.

bikebikebike

My first wheel build was to put a 3X9 hub into a 20" wheel.
Small wheels are easy.
Took part of an evening , but was easy, if you have ever trued a wheel before.
Be careful with spoke length, and don't feel too bad if you mismeasured.
Use an online calculator or two, measure, recheck and recheck again.
Good spokemakers to be found on ebay if you can't find one locally.
I got exactly what I wanted out of it and it was fairly fun.
First one takes a while. Takes almost no special tools,
Spoke wrench, a few Twist ties and an upside down fork if you want to not spend much.
Next one is almost boring, cause now you are a wheelbuilder.

Schwinnsta

Good for you.

snazpizaz

Cheers everyone