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Generic Rant About XYZ

Old 03-24-23, 06:06 PM
  #1  
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Generic Rant About XYZ

Visiting parents in a city outside of Seattle, where everything is so spendy now. When I go there, I try to get stuff done that costs a fortune in Seattle. So......local powder coater says he can do a frame with sandblasting for about 200 to 250. That is not unreasonable at all. I really don't trust any vendors anymore, so I show up in person to pick a color and reiterate what I need done. Just like magic, $450 bucks. Really. Gosh. No. I got so jaded that when I asked another vendor on a quote about a gas appliance repair, I decided to be a generic a-hole to parse out the 'real' cost. "We can fix that gas valve for 200 bucks" I said, "you mean about 600 bucks in the end?" The guy hems and haws and says "other costs might come into play" This is so tiring. Just tell me up front what merde costs and I can decide in advance what to do. I just installed a washing machine of EU origin. A whole big arse rigamarole about the simple supply line hose. After weeks of emails, I give up and contact the manufacturer. The supply side is US/SAE. the machine side is EU/Metric. WHY NOT JUST FRICKING SAY THAT SO I CAN MOVE ON! Anyone remember when service and quality were going to save the world in the 1980's? Well, that is long long gone.

Ergo Sum: I will find a way to redo my Fuji S12S LTD frame and my Submariner 12 Stainless frame. I just won't deal with vendors who are not up front about costs. Rant off. For now......
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Old 03-24-23, 06:16 PM
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Perhaps what would be helpful to understand costs associated with doing work in our current society. How much labour, materials, equipment amortization and other overhead do you think this painter/sandblaster would incur to complete your frame. Do you really think $250 is a reasonable number. Now imagine what the number would be if the shop complied with all safety, environmental and other regulatory requirements. It’s people who are constantly grinding for the bottom dollar which is causing the exact behaviors you are complaining about.
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Old 03-24-23, 06:46 PM
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9% inflation does not compute to 225% increase.
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Old 03-24-23, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
Perhaps what would be helpful to understand costs associated with doing work in our current society. How much labour, materials, equipment amortization and other overhead do you think this painter/sandblaster would incur to complete your frame. Do you really think $250 is a reasonable number. Now imagine what the number would be if the shop complied with all safety, environmental and other regulatory requirements. It’s people who are constantly grinding for the bottom dollar which is causing the exact behaviors you are complaining about.
I completely understand your point of view. The issue I have is quoting the price then upon arrival the cost doubles or triples. Public projects work this way too. "Our subway will cost 1 billion dollars" Just multiply x 3 for the end cost. Years ago a local frame builder listed the cost of adding cantilever bosses to a frame. When I showed up in person, the cost was as noted on website, but with a "basic shop setup cost of $100" That was not on the web site. So I have zero issues about what a fair cost is. Just say it up front.
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Old 03-24-23, 07:05 PM
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Hey @etherhuffer - i'll pay you to drive a bike to Cino - if you are already planning to go. What's the price? Real cost to you versus value to me?

SAD time is coming to an end ...soon.....hopefully.

PS - don't move across the lake to Bellevue.
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Old 03-24-23, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood
Hey @etherhuffer - i'll pay you to drive a bike to Cino - if you are already planning to go. What's the price? Real cost to you versus value to me?

SAD time is coming to an end ...soon.....hopefully.

PS - don't move across the lake to Bellevue.
e
Let's ride together. I think we may be on the same wavelength.
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Old 03-24-23, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by etherhuffer
...

I will find a way

...
That's it Stud... It's something we all have got to do...

We will Improvise...
We will Adapt...
We will Overcome...
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Old 03-24-23, 07:57 PM
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Wow!

Fall 2019 it was $75usd for a frame and forks to be powder coated.

That was a single colour and it was a Buffalo bike co-op member rate.

You're scaring me! Wonder what the rate is now....
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Old 03-24-23, 08:11 PM
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I got a frame and fork done about a year and a half ago here in Southern California. It was $75 for the frame and $25 for the fork. This included media blast and a special primer. It was very rusty.They matched the original paint nicely and the job was good-very good, not excellent, but it was a $20 bike! The finish was nice and he even put thingies in the drop out screw holes as a mask. After decals it looked even better. About a month after it was done , the bike fell over. I was afraid to pick it up but I checked where it landed ( on the top tube area) not a scratch . That powder paint is tuff stuff!
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Old 03-24-23, 09:09 PM
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SODO powder quote a price of $200 for single color and clearcoat. That's here in Seattle. I have no idea what the actual price is out the door, complete.
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Old 03-24-23, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by etherhuffer
e
Let's ride together. I think we may be on the same wavelength.

Probably several in this chilly region in the same state.
Told @SurferRosa - that as soon as weather improves a bit we need to ride.

Diversions of the seasonal type, with son, have helped me.


There is no such thing as bad weather, only inadequate clothing……up to a point.

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Old 03-26-23, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by WGB
Wow!

Fall 2019 it was $75usd for a frame and forks to be powder coated.

That was a single colour and it was a Buffalo bike co-op member rate.

You're scaring me! Wonder what the rate is now....
Wow, that is pretty darned good. I paid that much a decade ago in this area.
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Old 03-26-23, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Kabuki12
I got a frame and fork done about a year and a half ago here in Southern California. It was $75 for the frame and $25 for the fork. This included media blast and a special primer. It was very rusty.They matched the original paint nicely and the job was good-very good, not excellent, but it was a $20 bike! The finish was nice and he even put thingies in the drop out screw holes as a mask. After decals it looked even better. About a month after it was done , the bike fell over. I was afraid to pick it up but I checked where it landed ( on the top tube area) not a scratch . That powder paint is tuff stuff!
Kabuki 12.....I have a Submariner 12 that also needs some coating. That frame is perfect for an ebike conversion. A guy was unloading the frame during covid and its been waiting for some new paint or powder.
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Old 03-26-23, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mhespenheide
SODO powder quote a price of $200 for single color and clearcoat. That's here in Seattle. I have no idea what the actual price is out the door, complete.
I never got back to you last year about going for a ride. Last year was a disaster. Bike crash, covid, foot surgery. Knock on wood I get out this year and go.
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Old 03-26-23, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by zandoval
That's it Stud... It's something we all have got to do...

We will Improvise...
We will Adapt...
We will Overcome...
I refer to my escapades as "Beating the Man." Telling me something cannot be fixed is a red cape in front of a bull. Last summer Volvo told me they could not turn the rotors on my brakes. Just fork over 1200-1500 for a full brake job. WTF? I checked the calipers with a micrometer, they were barely worn. Found a guy to turn them for me. 40 bucks felt far better than 1400 and they work just fine. I have to replace the oil cooler on my 1984 Mazda diesel pickup at some point. Will Beat the Man on that one too!
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Old 03-26-23, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by etherhuffer
...replace the oil cooler on my 1984 Mazda diesel pickup...
Mazdas are at lest fixable... Replacing an oil cooler on an 70's Nissan was impossible. Not only were the parts too expensive I would have had to take the front end apart just to start. I just bought a Generic Oil cooler and grafted it in. Much easier and much cheaper... fun, Fun, FUN and DONE.
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Old 03-26-23, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by etherhuffer
I never got back to you last year about going for a ride. Last year was a disaster. Bike crash, covid, foot surgery. Knock on wood I get out this year and go.
No worries. I got covid early in the summer and then tried to come back from it too quickly and ended up injuring my foot. What can you do? I'm on a vintage bike/frame buying binge to compensate for not riding enough...
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Old 03-27-23, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by etherhuffer
local powder coater says he can do a frame with sandblasting for about 200 to 250.
Just like magic, $450 bucks.
Yeah contractors and service providers play games like this because CUSTOMERS play similar games... pitting one provider vs another.
So their objective is to get you in the door and get you to have invested too much time and energy to switch providers after you show up and get the bad news.

Your objective is to write the specs and show the providers that you're being fair and looking for a competitive bid. That means put down line items for everything you want done - including whatever "extra costs that may come in to play" so the price will be firm and the providers will be playing on a level field.

I'd be surprised if you got too many who will put that much effort into a $250 project though. It'll be more work for you AND the powder coater to prepare the scope and estimate.

Anecdote - I got bids for a fence replacement, and I gave the contractors my sketch and measurements. The contractors all bid the whole project, not a "per foot" price. I had all the stuff in there like "remove all demo'ed fence, provide temporary fencing until the new one is up, use X-grade redwood"... etc. The contractor with the lowest bid measured it himself and didn't use my measurements and he was wrong (low by about 16 ft). When he called me back he acknowledged that my measurement was right and he would honor the measurements I gave him (and the other companies). There was no arguing, there was an understanding that the terms of the contract were solid, the estimates from all the contractors were based on the same information, and it was his mistake and he still wanted the work even though his profit would be a lot less than he was expecting. One contractor on another job said it was refreshing to work with someone who understood the process.
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Old 03-27-23, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott
Yeah contractors and service providers play games like this because CUSTOMERS play similar games... pitting one provider vs another.
So their objective is to get you in the door and get you to have invested too much time and energy to switch providers after you show up and get the bad news.

Your objective is to write the specs and show the providers that you're being fair and looking for a competitive bid. That means put down line items for everything you want done - including whatever "extra costs that may come in to play" so the price will be firm and the providers will be playing on a level field.

I'd be surprised if you got too many who will put that much effort into a $250 project though. It'll be more work for you AND the powder coater to prepare the scope and estimate.

Anecdote - I got bids for a fence replacement, and I gave the contractors my sketch and measurements. The contractors all bid the whole project, not a "per foot" price. I had all the stuff in there like "remove all demo'ed fence, provide temporary fencing until the new one is up, use X-grade redwood"... etc. The contractor with the lowest bid measured it himself and didn't use my measurements and he was wrong (low by about 16 ft). When he called me back he acknowledged that my measurement was right and he would honor the measurements I gave him (and the other companies). There was no arguing, there was an understanding that the terms of the contract were solid, the estimates from all the contractors were based on the same information, and it was his mistake and he still wanted the work even though his profit would be a lot less than he was expecting. One contractor on another job said it was refreshing to work with someone who understood the process.
You suffer from my syndrome: Knowing what you want specifically! A neighbor went through what you did, with similar good results. I liked the painter he chose. The guy was up front and brought up stuff my neighbor missed. Neighbor added on work and supply costs for better paint, better materials, etc. My philosophy is buy the best materials as the labor is always more expensive and is a sunk cost regardless of materials. Good contractors know that surprises on jobs cause everyone heartache
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Old 03-27-23, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott
Yeah contractors and service providers play games like this because CUSTOMERS play similar games... pitting one provider vs another.
So their objective is to get you in the door and get you to have invested too much time and energy to switch providers after you show up and get the bad news.

Your objective is to write the specs and show the providers that you're being fair and looking for a competitive bid. That means put down line items for everything you want done - including whatever "extra costs that may come in to play" so the price will be firm and the providers will be playing on a level field.

I'd be surprised if you got too many who will put that much effort into a $250 project though. It'll be more work for you AND the powder coater to prepare the scope and estimate.

Anecdote - I got bids for a fence replacement, and I gave the contractors my sketch and measurements. The contractors all bid the whole project, not a "per foot" price. I had all the stuff in there like "remove all demo'ed fence, provide temporary fencing until the new one is up, use X-grade redwood"... etc. The contractor with the lowest bid measured it himself and didn't use my measurements and he was wrong (low by about 16 ft). When he called me back he acknowledged that my measurement was right and he would honor the measurements I gave him (and the other companies). There was no arguing, there was an understanding that the terms of the contract were solid, the estimates from all the contractors were based on the same information, and it was his mistake and he still wanted the work even though his profit would be a lot less than he was expecting. One contractor on another job said it was refreshing to work with someone who understood the process.
When I was looking to get concrete for my pole barn, I invited two people to give an estimate. One came out and took some measurements and wrote a number on a post-it note. The other took his measurements, went home and mailed me a detailed bid, outlining the entire job. The price was only a little higher, and the peace of mind was well worth it.
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Old 03-27-23, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by etherhuffer
You suffer from my syndrome: Knowing what you want specifically! A neighbor went through what you did, with similar good results. I liked the painter he chose. The guy was up front and brought up stuff my neighbor missed. Neighbor added on work and supply costs for better paint, better materials, etc. My philosophy is buy the best materials as the labor is always more expensive and is a sunk cost regardless of materials. Good contractors know that surprises on jobs cause everyone heartache
Good point. No point in cheaping on the supplies and then paying to have it redone too soon.
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Old 03-27-23, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by etherhuffer
Kabuki 12.....I have a Submariner 12 that also needs some coating. That frame is perfect for an ebike conversion. A guy was unloading the frame during covid and its been waiting for some new paint or powder.
I have had two of them , very solid bike but a very heavy bike. I still have my Diamond formula from 1976
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Old 03-27-23, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kabuki12
I have had two of them , very solid bike but a very heavy bike. I still have my Diamond formula from 1976
Yeah, this weighs a ton, but as an e-bike it is perfect. Decals not worth saving, paint is long gone. Going to clean up and re-coat. Also found a video on how to make a modified quill seat post using a Kalloy Uno.
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