chas58

I need some new wheels. My rear is really worn out and needs to be replaced (and why not replace the front too)? What would be some good clinchers for 80% track and 20% road.
Rims: Mavic open pro? Velocity deep V?
Hubs: Dura Ace, Phil Woods? Formula good enough?
Or - Complete builds: IRO wheels? Mavic Ellipse?
Or something else?

What is more important, weight (425gram Mavic open pro rim) or Aero (520gram Velocity)?

Current rims are an old set of Alex D22 with unknown ball bearing hubs. I have a set of Alex Race32 (from my Langster), but I have the impression they are heavy (well, they are with my 28mm commuter tires) and unknown hubs.

jasonrobo02

Instead of the Mavic Open Pro, I prefer the Mavic CXP33 rim. It's deeper, but not much heavier.

Kayce

If you have the mechanical ability and desire to regularly repack your hubs you wont be able to any better than the dura-aces. But if you want sealed I would get a set of formulas and replace the bearings with the aftermarket ones that Phil sells. It really does make a difference.

chas58

Hmm. Some intersting ideas, thanks.

veganeric

+1 for the DA hubs

Kinlin rims are deeper like Velocity or CXP33, but barely weigh more than Open Pros. My 27mm Kinlins were only about 5g more than Open Pros.

chas58

The wheels are spinning in my head...

Ray R

I like the high profile Mavic rims as well. You can run them with a lower spoke count than with a box rim. I don't recommend riding clinchers on the track. It's much harder to control your descent to the apron after a puncture. Dura-Ace track and Phil Wood (RIP) hubs both work well. My wife uses a Phil flip-flop rear and a Dura-Ace high flange front laced to Mavic 28 spoke XP30 rims. I use Campagnolo Record Pista hubs laced to high profile Matrix 28 spoke rims.

Ray R

Building up a track tandem and will be using Velocity Pro Elite, which is the Deep-V as a tubular. 40 spokes rear and 36 front.

chas58

I ended up getting some Mavic Elipse rims off of ebay/craig's list. Several autions on Ebay were not getting any buyers, so I found the sellers on craig's list and got them at a respectable price.

They seem very fast. Below 20mph they are not a lot different, but the top end, at 30+ mph they really fly. Not sure why they are so fast, but it is a good design.

I'm not too worried about flats. You shouldn't be having a blowout or puncture on the track. I have had flats on the track, but it is manageable if your alert.

Now a blowout on a tandem. Been there. Done that. Never want to have that happen again.

brron

I have the dura-ace hubs and they are fantastic (laced to open pro 3x). But how often am I suppose to get them repack? They have accidentally seen rain once a couple of weeks ago.

Baby Puke

If you rode them in heavy rain, I'd repack them now. They have very minimal seals. But if you use them only on the track and only in good weather, once a year should be fine.

billh

Did you do a head to head test over a given distance, say 200m or kilo, and get a better time, or just a better feel. Not knocking better feel, I just wonder how much actual time savings you get.

I was looking to upgrade to Elipse from Weinman DP18/Formula hubs but thought I better just train harder!

chas58

Yeah, I could just be imagining things, but I doubt it. Then again my other rims were used; I don't know what the hubs are, but the have Alex rims (DA22), so they aren't the most expensive.

One of the guys at the track has consistantly set his fastest times on Elipses, even though they are not the lightest rims around. Personally I'll have to do some comparison's next season. I'm not sure why they would be faster than Weinman/Formula. Maybe having a fraction of the spokes, in an offset pattern, with blade spokes? I dunno, but the top end was easier to reach and hold than I was expecting. It was a nice surprise.

They were specifically designed for track racing (whatever that means)., unlike other rims.

bitingduck

The Ellipses are really stiff, and the bladed spokes probably help a bit. The rim weight will hurt you on a standing start, but if you're just maintaining a steady speed it doesn't matter much once you're up to speed. Clinchers also seem to consistently measure out at lower rolling resistance than tubulars, even though they generally run at much lower pressures. The difference is generally attributed to the lossiness of the glue, which stays pretty flexible unless you're using real shellac, and I don't think I've seen anybody shellac their tires on since I've been racing.

teome

I'm looking to get some new rims too and was trying to decide between Weinmann DP18, mavic cpx33 or the elipses. I'm thinking to save some cash to get DA rear hubs and novatec front. How much difference do high flange vs low on dura-ace assuming the same rim, eg elipse, really make. (sorry a bit OT but didn't wantto start another thread for related question)

EDIT: ignore this. I have read for hours and found that any question comes to the same set of differing opinions. I'm amazed that there is even a disputed question. Surely it can be tested? Anyway sorry do the hijack

chas58

No worries.

I assume you have figured out that Ellipse is a package deal from Mavic, so you don’t have a hub choice.
In general, I believe that the high flange hub will make the wheel a bit stiffer and more responsive, which would be good for the track, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

teome

Er yeah I have realised that now. I only mentioned them because they were in th thread :/
Now I've bought some simple starter wheels with novatec large flange hubs and dp18, 32h. I was also advised to get some bontrager xxx lite tyres so ice ordered them separately.

With the high/low flange thing it makes sense that the larger flange would give more stiffness, but how much? And how much stiffness do deep runs provide? Less, the same, equivalent? The geek in me would like to see an equation with material properties per unit volume or even just area for hubs, rims, spokes. Some one outside re industry must have modelled it. I guess its probably in some scientific literature somewhere.

Then again, there is no way I need to worry about this as a beginner and I can take good advice. So I won't loose sleep over it but I can't help thinking about it.

teome

Er yeah I have realised that now. I only mentioned them because they were in th thread :/
Now I've bought some simple starter wheels with novatec large flange hubs and dp18, 32h. I was also advised to get some bontrager xxx lite tyres so ice ordered them separately.

With the high/low flange thing it makes sense that the larger flange would give more stiffness, but how much? And how much stiffness do deep rims provide? Less, the same, equivalent? The geek in me would like to see an equation with material properties per unit volume or even just area for hubs, rims, spokes. Some one outside re industry must have modelled it. I guess its probably in some scientific literature somewhere.

Then again, there is no way I need to worry about this as a beginner and I can take good advice. So I won't loose sleep over it but I can't help thinking about it.