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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Clipping in [Flame suit on]

Old 11-29-22, 04:38 PM
  #276  
Kapusta
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
I'm with you. I don't have much experience with flat pedals, but a good pedal stroke is not just up/down, push/pull. It involves forces in multiple directions throughout the circle. Being attached is important for "round" power.

Toward the end of my racing era, I was working with a former Olympian. One of his focuses with me was developing a pedal stroke that recruited additional muscle groups to contribute to powering the bike. This paid off the most in keeping the big power muscles fresher for when big power was required. As my stroke improved, it was how much fresher my legs felt at the end of races. I miss that feeling.
If by “push/pull” you mean delivering power over the top and across the bottom… good flats and shoes let you do that.
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Old 11-29-22, 04:46 PM
  #277  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
Apparently in German and possibly related languages, they're "click-pedals". That's much more sensible than "automatic", which sounds like they engage and disengage on their own. No.
That was my experience with multi-release cleats.
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Old 11-29-22, 04:54 PM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
If by “push/pull” you mean delivering power over the top and across the bottom… good flats and shoes let you do that.
By "push/pull" and "up/down" I was meaning the same thing. Some people tend to see the pedal stroke in only 2 directions - pushing down and pulling up. My goal is round Getting the hip flexors contributing is part of it, but the feel of it (to me) is a smooth transition through multiple muscle groups. It will never be perfect, but that's my intent. When everything is firing at the right time, unconsciously, it feels awesome.

Admittedly, I have little experience with flat pedals to truly understand their abilities and limitations, so I'm probably assuming too much about the limitations.
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Old 11-29-22, 09:42 PM
  #279  
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
Ejector pedals!!
Winding up a 1500w sprint when suddenly *SPROING!* I was ejected from my pedals and run over by the pack
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Old 11-29-22, 09:45 PM
  #280  
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
By "push/pull" and "up/down" I was meaning the same thing. Some people tend to see the pedal stroke in only 2 directions - pushing down and pulling up. My goal is round Getting the hip flexors contributing is part of it, but the feel of it (to me) is a smooth transition through multiple muscle groups. It will never be perfect, but that's my intent. When everything is firing at the right time, unconsciously, it feels awesome.

Admittedly, I have little experience with flat pedals to truly understand their abilities and limitations, so I'm probably assuming too much about the limitations.
If I'm just pushing down on the pedals, I start bouncing at about 105 rpm, but if I concentrate on pushing forward on the pedal going through 12:00 while pulling back (no UP) on the one at 6:00, I can spin up to 130 or more before I bounce out of the saddle.
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Old 11-29-22, 11:44 PM
  #281  
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
By "push/pull" and "up/down" I was meaning the same thing. Some people tend to see the pedal stroke in only 2 directions - pushing down and pulling up. My goal is round Getting the hip flexors contributing is part of it, but the feel of it (to me) is a smooth transition through multiple muscle groups. It will never be perfect, but that's my intent. When everything is firing at the right time, unconsciously, it feels awesome.

Admittedly, I have little experience with flat pedals to truly understand their abilities and limitations, so I'm probably assuming too much about the limitations.
I rode flat pedals from 7 to 17, lots. At 17, I got my first real road bike, a full Campy Legnano with rat trap pedals, clips and straps. My first ride on that bike, I was turbine powered. Yeah, the pedals go 'round and I could put power into them during the whole circle!

Yes, it's complicated. The idea is to keep the force on the pedals constantly tangential to the pedal circle. No, you can't do that with flats. There's a lot of power to be produced at the bottom of the pedal stroke. For about 90° there, one should feel the shoes' heel cups, quite noticeably. Using my power meter, I can pedal at a constant cadence and watch the power vary according to how much pressure I'm putting on the heel cups at the bottom of the stroke. One can add power for a few minutes by pulling up on the backstroke, but the hip flexors are not strong and will give out quickly. I just try to take the pressure off the rear pedal as it comes up.

One gets better at what one practices and emphasizes. It's not possible for the same person to pedal with different styles, evaluate them for efficiency, and get an unbiased result.

As noted above, once one figures out how to pedal smoothly, a 150 cadence is possible for short periods, 200 is not at all impossible. It's just neuromuscular control. I love the freedom of being clipped in.
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