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Steel

Old 06-19-22, 10:00 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post

If it is really important, and we have time, we should Suvey: of 100 riders of carbon bikes on a popular route, how many of those bikes are at least 10 years old? And do the same for 100 riders of Steel. We could correct for age too. Let’s get to the bottom of this.
Could we find 100 riders on modern steel frames? I'm a member of 2 road clubs. One club has 500 members and I have been a member for 33 years. The other club has more members but turnout is smaller. I also ride in areas where I see dozens of other road riders on weekends.

From my experience modern steel bikes are extremely rare. I can only think of one regular in either club who rides steel. I know when I ride my steel Gunnar people often comment on it and many commenters think it is older than it is (2006). I see way more aluminum frames than steel.

I don't have any stats but I suspect steel frames are a tiny fraction of the high end road bike market. Like really tiny.

Last edited by big john; 06-19-22 at 10:05 PM.
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Old 06-19-22, 10:05 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
I was only promoting the idea that cyclists who prefer steel are less likely to replace their current favorite rider at any point in time
That might be quite a leap. Anyone who can drop $10 or 12 grand on a road bike is obviously well off enough to buy whatever they want, whenever they want it, at least as far as bikes.

To your point, though, maybe the person who seeks out a steel frame in this day and age will cherish it, like some art object. Or they just want something different.

Last edited by big john; 06-19-22 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 06-20-22, 05:39 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
Could we find 100 riders on modern steel frames? I'm a member of 2 road clubs. One club has 500 members and I have been a member for 33 years. The other club has more members but turnout is smaller. I also ride in areas where I see dozens of other road riders on weekends.

From my experience modern steel bikes are extremely rare. I can only think of one regular in either club who rides steel. I know when I ride my steel Gunnar people often comment on it and many commenters think it is older than it is (2006). I see way more aluminum frames than steel.

I don't have any stats but I suspect steel frames are a tiny fraction of the high end road bike market. Like really tiny.
A Wiggle manager mentioned in a recent GCN video that their bike sales currently comprise roughly 60% aluminum, 18% each carbon and steel, and the rest titanium.
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Old 06-20-22, 10:17 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
A Wiggle manager mentioned in a recent GCN video that their bike sales currently comprise roughly 60% aluminum, 18% each carbon and steel, and the rest titanium.
I've tried (out of curiosity) to find data breaking it down to "high end" road bikes and I found two marketing studies but you have to buy their report. The only data I saw that hinted at total sales was in line with what you saw on the GCN video. I'm sure bicycle sales world wide are dominated by utility bikes and kids bikes, with road bikes a small sub-group and racing or higher priced bikes being a segment of the road bike group.
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Old 06-20-22, 10:39 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
A Wiggle manager mentioned in a recent GCN video that their bike sales currently comprise roughly 60% aluminum, 18% each carbon and steel, and the rest titanium.
Most sales in a bike shop are going to be to average people spending the average amount of money for a bike, and that's going to be around $550 dollars which is why aluminum bikes sell more because it's cheaper in materials and labor than CF or TI. Since Titanium is on the higher end spectrum of price point vs AL or CF, most people are not going to buy one.
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Old 06-20-22, 11:03 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
The BMC I posted is $2999 with 105.
What makes that better than a steel bike, like a Fairlight Strael? Weight? - which I think is the stupidest thing to consider as it represents a fraction of the overall weight of the cycling unit.

If it is weight, the BMC is about 8.82 kg listed (~19.5 lbs). A comparable steel bike, such as the Fairlight Strael, would be around the exact same, cost around $3000 and come with an Ultegra groupset.

I would make the argument that the steel bike would be a much more robust tool that would be easier to live with.


https://99spokes.com/bikes/bmc/2022/...hine-slr-seven

https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bi...el-3-0-review/

https://roadbike.io/the-fairlight-strael-review/
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Old 06-20-22, 11:58 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by vespasianus View Post
What makes that better than a steel bike, like a Fairlight Strael? Weight? - which I think is the stupidest thing to consider as it represents a fraction of the overall weight of the cycling unit.

If it is weight, the BMC is about 8.82 kg listed (~19.5 lbs). A comparable steel bike, such as the Fairlight Strael, would be around the exact same, cost around $3000 and come with an Ultegra groupset.

I would make the argument that the steel bike would be a much more robust tool that would be easier to live with.
First, I never said the BMC was a better choice than other bikes. Nor did I ever say one material was better than another.

I can assure you that I am not a weight weenie, though weight is an important factor for many, whether you think it's stupid or not.

I like the looks of the BMC, the geometry would work for me, and there is a store not far from me which has one in stock, in my size. The Fairlight site says maybe November. I did look at their geometry and their "tall" model would probably work for me.

I don't know if one bike would be more "robust" or easier to live with than another. I'm not against another steel bike, it could happen.

I've had a number of steel road bikes, an aluminum CAAD5 and a Seven Titanium. Maybe I'd just like to try a cf frame for once? I'm a lot less brutal on my bike stuff than I was in my younger days. My carbon fiber mtb hasn't failed yet despite me slamming into holes and rocks with it.
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Old 06-20-22, 07:52 PM
  #58  
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I've not ridden much in the last 6 years, and when I went looking for a good used bike this summer I was focusing on Ti. I had a Seven Cycles Ti road bike about 13 years ago and loved it. Anyway, I could not find a Ti bike that fit me, and ended up buying an Indy Fab steel Crown Jewel Factory Lightweight. Very close to what the Seven Ti felt like. Great riding steel bike.

Originally Posted by easyupbug View Post
Any frame material, each with a different physical sensation, can be made as compliant or ridged as a builder wants. Now in my 70's I favor compliance more so than stillness. This favors Ti because I in my experience have found Ti over steel, while still "lively", has less intense vibration, noticeable in both noise and vibration resulting is less impact on the three contact points, hands, feet, and saddle. .
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Old 06-21-22, 05:01 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Recycled Cycler View Post
I've not ridden much in the last 6 years, and when I went looking for a good used bike this summer I was focusing on Ti. I had a Seven Cycles Ti road bike about 13 years ago and loved it. Anyway, I could not find a Ti bike that fit me, and ended up buying an Indy Fab steel Crown Jewel Factory Lightweight. Very close to what the Seven Ti felt like. Great riding steel bike.
Those IF bikes are very nice bikes, I'm talking top of the food chain nice. You found one of those used you probably got a good price on it. Is that IF bike a maroon color with gold colored accents, stem, headset, etc?

Steel is close to the feel of TI, but all my steel bikes, except for my touring bike, are all race geometry, so they tend to be stiff, the TI bike I have is more of a sport geometry, sort of in between a race and a touring bike, but leaning a bit more towards race than touring when I compare it to my other bikes.
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Old 06-21-22, 12:26 PM
  #60  
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Nope. Silver with maroon decals.


Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
Those IF bikes are very nice bikes, I'm talking top of the food chain nice. You found one of those used you probably got a good price on it. Is that IF bike a maroon color with gold colored accents, stem, headset, etc?

Steel is close to the feel of TI, but all my steel bikes, except for my touring bike, are all race geometry, so they tend to be stiff, the TI bike I have is more of a sport geometry, sort of in between a race and a touring bike, but leaning a bit more towards race than touring when I compare it to my other bikes.
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Old 06-21-22, 08:47 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Recycled Cycler View Post
Nope. Silver with maroon decals.
I saw the maroon gold job at The Pros Closet so I thought that was the one you bought. They are very nice looking bikes
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Old 06-21-22, 09:19 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Recycled Cycler View Post
Nope. Silver with maroon decals.
How about a picture or two?
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Old 06-22-22, 06:16 AM
  #63  
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I looked at that one at TPC. But it was a tad too big for me. The one I found was on eBay. Sloping TT with a 31" standover middle of TT, and a 56CM virtual TT.

Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
I saw the maroon gold job at The Pros Closet so I thought that was the one you bought. They are very nice looking bikes
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Old 06-22-22, 06:18 AM
  #64  
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I'm doing a bit of a rebuild on it. When rebuild done next week I'll be sure to post pics

Originally Posted by big john View Post
How about a picture or two?
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Old 06-23-22, 05:05 PM
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Pics. It was pretty ugly, even for an Indy Fab, when I got it. New handlebars and bar tape, new chain, new cassette, removed chain stay plastic protector with insects and crap melded to it (yuck). Now looking like the fine steel bike Indy Fab originally built!










Originally Posted by big john View Post
How about a picture or two?
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Old 06-23-22, 05:10 PM
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Here is what it looked like when I bought it, before sprucing it up.



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Old 06-23-22, 05:14 PM
  #67  
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Looks like the frame is in great shape!
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Old 06-23-22, 05:37 PM
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Frame is nearly perfect. A few paint blemishes. It was a bit rough when I received it. I think it had been stored in a very humid place for years. It cleaned up well. New 12-30 cassette and new chain. Installed traditional drop bars, and new yellow bar tape for a fresh & bright look. New Campy cables and Torelli housings. New bar tape. Gold colored spacers add some bling.

Originally Posted by big john View Post
Looks like the frame is in great shape!
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Old 06-24-22, 08:42 AM
  #69  
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Of course, not all steel is considered equal. I've read the term "gas pipe" frames which does not sound like it's good. One of my old steel bikes which is usually my go to bike because it shifts well and is very reliable but would have been a low end box store bike that must be made with this "gas pipe" steel, as it's heavy and doesn't seem to have any characteristics of smooth, flexible or stiff. Just heavy ha ha.
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Old 06-24-22, 09:24 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Recycled Cycler View Post
Pics. It was pretty ugly, even for an Indy Fab, when I got it. New handlebars and bar tape, new chain, new cassette, removed chain stay plastic protector with insects and crap melded to it (yuck). Now looking like the fine steel bike Indy Fab originally built!







double sweet !
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Old 06-24-22, 12:29 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by gthomson View Post
Of course, not all steel is considered equal. I've read the term "gas pipe" frames which does not sound like it's good. One of my old steel bikes which is usually my go to bike because it shifts well and is very reliable but would have been a low end box store bike that must be made with this "gas pipe" steel, as it's heavy and doesn't seem to have any characteristics of smooth, flexible or stiff. Just heavy ha ha.
Gas pipe is not the same as steel used for bicycles. Modern gas pipe has steel, black iron, polyvinyl chloride (PVC), high-density polyethylene (HDPE) and copper; of course way back in the 1800's and early 100's gas pipe was used because that's all they had, but back then it didn't contain PVC or HDPE; and yet that stuff held up pretty decently, they did races across the world, touring trips across the world, TDF was done on that stuff, so it did hold up reasonably well.

Steel bike frames, depending how what it is can have different stuff in it. Reynolds 531 in it's earlier years was made of either High Manganese, or High Molybdenum, I can't remember which; then they changed it to Manganese Molybdenum. That's different than Cromoly, Cro-mo. Since I don't know a lot about this stuff, so I'll refer you to a website: https://www.tekton.com/blog/crmo-or-crv-steel

You'll find the same sort of steel used in bike frames is also used in tools.
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Old 06-26-22, 09:00 AM
  #72  
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"Gas pipe" used relative to a steel bike isn't to be taken literally. It's a derogatory put-down insult of cheap steel bikes. "The thing is made of gas pipe". Sorta like, "did you get a good look at that Fred we just passed?" They didn't mean the dude's name was Fred lol!

Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
Gas pipe is not the same as steel used for bicycles. Modern gas pipe has steel, black iron, polyvinyl chloride (PVC), high-density polyethylene (HDPE) and copper; of course way back in the 1800's and early 100's gas pipe was used because that's all they had, but back then it didn't contain PVC or HDPE; and yet that stuff held up pretty decently, they did races across the world, touring trips across the world, TDF was done on that stuff, so it did hold up reasonably well.

Steel bike frames, depending how what it is can have different stuff in it. Reynolds 531 in it's earlier years was made of either High Manganese, or High Molybdenum, I can't remember which; then they changed it to Manganese Molybdenum. That's different than Cromoly, Cro-mo. Since I don't know a lot about this stuff, so I'll refer you to a website: https://www.tekton.com/blog/crmo-or-crv-steel

You'll find the same sort of steel used in bike frames is also used in tools.
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Old 06-26-22, 01:07 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Recycled Cycler View Post
"Gas pipe" used relative to a steel bike isn't to be taken literally. It's a derogatory put-down insult of cheap steel bikes. "The thing is made of gas pipe". Sorta like, "did you get a good look at that Fred we just passed?" They didn't mean the dude's name was Fred lol!
What did they use back in the 1800's and early 1900's if it wasn't gas pipe?
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Old 06-26-22, 04:42 PM
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It doesn't matter. Whenever anyone says "that bike is made outta gas pipes" they're making fun/ putting down the bike basically saying it's garbage. That's the current usage of "gas pipe" relative to a steel bike. You'd never call a Waterford a gas pipe bike. But you may call a Bikes Direct steel bike a gas pipe bike, depending on if it's cheap steel or not.

Originally Posted by rekmeyata View Post
What did they use back in the 1800's and early 1900's if it wasn't gas pipe?
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Old 06-26-22, 04:47 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by Recycled Cycler View Post
It doesn't matter. Whenever anyone says "that bike is made outta gas pipes" they're making fun/ putting down the bike basically saying it's garbage. That's the current usage of "gas pipe" relative to a steel bike. You'd never call a Waterford a gas pipe bike. But you may call a Bikes Direct steel bike a gas pipe bike, depending on if it's cheap steel or not.
But that's not my question, I would like to know what kind of steel tubing, or piping, was used back in the 1880's to early 1900's in the construction of bike frames? I can only assume from your answer that you don't know just as I don't know, fine, I can live with that.

Does anyone else know?
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