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105 goes Di2

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105 goes Di2

Old 06-29-22, 11:12 AM
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Seattle Forrest
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105 goes Di2

https://www.velonews.com/gear/road-g...es-electronic/
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Old 06-29-22, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
You beat me to it.

Distracted by some crazy emailing me about the NSA tacking cats.
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Old 06-29-22, 11:31 AM
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The pricing is said to be competitive, but I think that is only with respect to 12-speed.

I just impulse-bought a Ti frame, and am looking at Di2 11-speed parts. These prices are comparable to 11-speed Ultegra.
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Old 06-29-22, 11:33 AM
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Both were beaten by this thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...pre-order.html
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Old 06-29-22, 12:42 PM
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Disc brake only. I'm surprised by that, considering Shimano still makes rim brake versions of Ultegra and Dura Ace Di2.

Also, this makes me wonder how much longer 11sp mechanical Ultegra will be around. Seems like this 105 Di2 version would basically replace that in terms of build tiers for OEM.

EDIT: Also noteworthy are those new carbon wheels.Tubless and 32mm rim profile, 21mm internal rim width, and claimed weight of 1,502g. 46mm rim depth, 21mm internal rim width, and a claimed weight of 1,610g. A bit narrow considering the trend direction, but $1050 seems like bargain.

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Old 06-29-22, 01:24 PM
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So, what will be the "best" gruppo that you can get without software then?
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Old 06-29-22, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
I beat that thread by almost 12 days: Bike Forums - View Single Post - How long will new road bikes be sold with Ultegra R8000 (11sp) mechanical?

Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
Disc brake only. I'm surprised by that, considering Shimano still makes rim brake versions of Ultegra and Dura Ace Di2.
Since Di2 shift lever only sends a signal to shift, I am quite sure something can be hacked together to do that and pull a brake cable.
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Old 06-29-22, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Fredo76 View Post
So, what will be the "best" gruppo that you can get without software then?
Campagnolo.

But it has to be Italian to be a gruppo. SRAM and Shimano make group-sets, which is Chicago-ese and Japanese for group of components.
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Old 06-29-22, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Fredo76 View Post
So, what will be the "best" gruppo that you can get without software then?
Campag. Centaur is actually pretty good and Chorus with disc brakes is fantastic.

The electronic systems don't really shift better than a good mechanical system (been riding Ultegra Di2) but I assume they will stay consistent over time. Actually surprised at how unremarkable Di2 shifting is....
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Old 06-29-22, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by vespasianus View Post
Campag. Centaur is actually pretty good and Chorus with disc brakes is fantastic.

The electronic systems don't really shift better than a good mechanical system (been riding Ultegra Di2) but I assume they will stay consistent over time. Actually surprised at how unremarkable Di2 shifting is....
My feelings exactly. In fact, I think I'm faster on the double-shift (front and back derailleurs simultaneously, e.g. when entering or finishing a climb) on mechanical.

One of the nicest things about Di2 is getting the gear readout on my computer...And no broken cables.
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Old 06-29-22, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
My feelings exactly. In fact, I think I'm faster on the double-shift (front and back derailleurs simultaneously, e.g. when entering or finishing a climb) on mechanical.

One of the nicest things about Di2 is getting the gear readout on my computer...And no broken cables.
In my 30+ years biking, I have never broken a cable (knocking on wood!).

For my road bike, I can get away with running the same cable for 15-25K miles (3-4 years) without even thinking about it. However, on my MTB, I change them out every other year. That is where I would like to see Di2 used (but not at $280 for a rear derailleur!).
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Old 06-29-22, 02:32 PM
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My Ultegra Di2 >> my Campy Athena shifting.
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Old 06-29-22, 02:37 PM
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The groupset of the people just turned electriccccc! Everyone was expecting it and it should be ''the'' product of the year IMO.

I just hope Shimano is also investing $ to resolve its supply issues.
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Old 06-29-22, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
Since Di2 shift lever only sends a signal to shift, I am quite sure something can be hacked together to do that and pull a brake cable.
Ultegra Di2 shifters/brakes on an otherwise 105 Di2 groupset probably makes the most sense for a budget rim brake Di2 build, but I was thinking more about OEM spec builds. From that perspective, there doesn't seem to be a lot of mixing/matching from different groupset tiers these days, so I'm wondering if any would even offer a rim brake Di2 build (Ultegra?) - noting that this setup was already a bit of a rare bird these days.
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Old 06-29-22, 03:13 PM
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Sweet, the other groups prices will drop. The C & V guys like me can jump a group or 2.
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Old 06-29-22, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by vespasianus View Post
In my 30+ years biking, I have never broken a cable (knocking on wood!).
Really? I bought and started riding my road bike in 2017 but upped my mileage in 2020, and broke my RD cable within a year.
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Old 06-29-22, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by vespasianus View Post
Campag. Centaur is actually pretty good and Chorus with disc brakes is fantastic.

The electronic systems don't really shift better than a good mechanical system (been riding Ultegra Di2) but I assume they will stay consistent over time. Actually surprised at how unremarkable Di2 shifting is....
I would think the being unremarkable would be the ideal for shifting. Usually when I have remarks about shifting, they're not favorable....
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Old 06-29-22, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Sweet, the other groups prices will drop. The C & V guys like me can jump a group or 2.
You can finally get that 6207-era 600 you've been holding out for!
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Old 06-29-22, 03:54 PM
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I’ve broken shift cables on bikes (2015 Roubaix, 2017 Boone) with poorly designed internal routing with relatively sharp radii around the BB with cable exits that act as a funnel to allow water and road crud to enter along with the cable ensuring shifting is nearly impossible well before 1000 miles. My bikes with exposed externally routed cables have lasted for thousands of miles.
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Old 06-29-22, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir View Post
Really? I bought and started riding my road bike in 2017 but upped my mileage in 2020, and broke my RD cable within a year.
Yup, never snapped a cable, either or road or on a mountain bike. I have ripped off plenty of rear derailleurs but never snapped a cable.
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Old 06-29-22, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
I would think the being unremarkable would be the ideal for shifting. Usually when I have remarks about shifting, they're not favorable....
I agree and view that as a good thing. Shifting performance is excellent (as is mechanical) and it will stay that way. But shifting is shifting and I view electronic systems as another way to skin a cat, not another cat.
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Old 06-29-22, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by vespasianus View Post
I agree and view that as a good thing. Shifting performance is excellent (as is mechanical) and it will stay that way. But shifting is shifting and I view electronic systems as another way to skin a cat, not another cat.
Agreed. I just put mechanical R8000 on my dream bike that I was building up, and it is fabulously unremarkable!
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Old 06-29-22, 10:21 PM
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My experience with mechanical and Di2 Ultegra is that the shift quality is pretty close to the same. The electronic one just never needs to be adjusted, which is nice, but not a huge deal. I prefer the tactile feel of mech, it's more satisfying and I feel more connected to the bike.

Honestly the best thing about Di2 is auto trim.

Maybe it's just me but I like to tell myself everybody lets the battery die once while riding. You learn your lesson and never do it again. You try to move into the other chainring and nothing happens. You try it again, and again nothing, then it hits you. Now you've got two or three dozen (?) rear shifts so use them wisely. It's not a big deal to charge, but it only needs to happen every few months so it's easy to lose track. I hate the flashing light thing, very glad my Garmin can tell me what's in the Di2 battery.

Like almost everybody else, I would want electronic on any future bike. The perfect shifting every time and auto trim converted me.
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Old 06-30-22, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Honestly the best thing about Di2 is auto trim.
...
and auto trim converted me.
I don't get it, I hardly ever use trim at present, and it only makes a difference when cross-chained as far as I can tell. When are you noticing the difference?

The ability to shift up and down infinitely with the chainring vs cassette switch handled in software is what's appealing if anything - I find myself staring back at my cassette to check what cog I'm in so I can plan to downshift at the fight time.
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Old 06-30-22, 06:34 AM
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If you want to update a rim brake frame, SRAM still has you covered with Force AXS shifters. Most 11 speed cranks work with 12 speed chains and the sprocket spacing on all three brands is so close that any of the cassettes that fit your wheels can work. I've already read reports from people using shimano 12 cassettes with sram. Some think the axs chain works best. Force shifters are about $460. I got a rival FD for $175 and a RD for $255. Both were easy to set up. Two batteries and a charger run about $150. I use shimano grx cranks for more range and better shifting.

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