Chuck M 

In the late 70s early 80s I checked out a book on bicycles from the school library. I don't know who the author was or remember the title of the book, but I read it cover to cover. Things to look for in selecting a bike were covered in one of the chapters. I remember some of those things being lugged frames, butted tubing, center pull brakes, high pressure tires, three piece cranks and high flange hubs with quick release skewers. I bought into what he pitched and I saved my money to buy a bike with all of those things. It was a Japanese bike boom bike but I got the best I could afford with my after school job.

It is easy to understand that materials and manufacturing techniques and practices replaced many of those items. But what was the thing about high flange hubs the author thought set them apart and why did they not hang around longer? Were they something people would have argued the merits of like they do tubeless tires and disk brakes now?

At any rate, I'll argue they are beautiful and they are one of the things that catch my eye the quickest when I look at bikes on craigslist and facebook marketplace.

krakhaus 

My only guess would be rotating weight? At the hub it would be pretty minimal, and you'd probably benefit from a stiffer wheel. I've wondered this as well. Especially with new carbon rims. For a fixed gear, it definitely makes sense on the rear.

T-Mar

Here is a thread from a decade ago, with 185 comments of the subject: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...disappear.html

momoman

Was this the book?




Notice the revised edition show a high flange on the front cover.

Chuck M 

Thank you. That thread is worth looking through for all the beautiful hubs people posted.

You know it may very well be. It looks like enough of a candidate that I will probably try finding a copy just to see.

pcb 

Much of the tech stuff I learned was way back then, in a similar late-'70s to early-'80s time frame. I learned from books and non-engineer co-workers, and some/much? of it was either wrong or only obliquely correct/useful. With that out of the way...In my day we were told high-flange hubs were stiffer, and low-flange hubs were more compliant, so they absorbed shock better. Neither was superior, it was essentially high flange for racing, low flange for touring. Which doesn't mean authors can't have preferences, but I didn't have much exposure to any "high flange is better" thinking.

I built and rode both, never raced, and could never really feel much difference compared to other things going on like tire width/pressure and frame design.

Low flange definitely dominated eventually, to the point were basically high flange was mainly for track bikes. High-flange hubs aren't dead, they're still made and available, though not in the kind of qty you find for low flange.

My impression is there's little actual measurable performance difference between the two, and high-flange hubs build into slightly heavier wheels, and low-flange are easily stiff enough for racing, so why carry the extra weight?

But high-flange hubs do always look lovelier to me, and feel more vintage-y.

Nuovo Record

What was the logic behind hi-lo hubs?

Charles Wahl

High-low hubs had the high flange on the freewheel (drive) side, on rear hub only, where, due to the offset between centerline of hub and centerline of frame, the spoke angle is shallower than on the non-drive side. The higher flange incrementally increases the spoke angle, by shortening the "y" dimension of spoke length, while leaving the "x" dimension the same, compared to a low-flange hub.

merziac

Its the strength to flex conundrum, at the time, high flange were used for strength but for touring some used low for flex and compliance.

Merz built this for Paris brest Paris with low flange and 40 ct. spokes, alas it was smidge small so a Davidson was rushed to go where the original owner did very well.

And while I wish the Merz would have gone, it would not be in the fantastic condition it is although it was ridden quite a bit

Jobst addresses it in his book "the Bicycle Wheel" as well.

verktyg 

During the Bike Boom Fad, low flange/small flange 3 piece nutted hubs where clear sign of a low quality bike!

Whereas a bike with shiny alloy high flange/large flange quick release hubs was a clear indicator of a higher quality bike.

High flange hubs with kidney bean shaped lightening holes looked flashy and were a definite selling point on entry level or lower priced bikes.

That was back when not many people in the US knew much about light weight bikes and it was the "10 Speed Racing Bike" Fad. Anything with dropped bars and derailleurs sold like hot cakes!

By 1974 most of the pros were riding on small flange hubs. The word on the street was that high flange hubs were more latterly rigid for highly stressed uses like track racing and fast mountain descents with a lot of sharp bends.

Small/low flange hubs were reputed to have a smoother, more shock absorbent ride because "the spokes were longer"....

By 1975-76 most bikes were coming with low/small hubs... That's what sold!

"..I don't know why you people seem to think this is magic. It's just this little chromium switch here..."

verktyg

The Golden Boy 

I think high flange hubs are classy!!!

IMG_0079 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

repechage

Blame Eddy. He switched to low flange and most everyone else for the road did too.

Kabuki12

I still love high flange hubs. I don't race or have any reason other than looks. My "go to" hubs are Campagnolo Record HF with flat (early) skewers. The Tipo HF hubs look nice as well but something about the sausage slots is cool . I remember seeing a stack of wheels at a swap meet right next to a bunch of other misc. garage items and I asked how much for the old ten speed wheels and the guy told me to look through them and when I found anything I wanted he would price them for me. I found a set of Campy Tipo HF hubs laced to tubular Fiame wheels with SS spokes and he told me $15 and I handed him a 20 dollar bill . I still have them in a box of parts , I don't run tubular but I like the way they look. Maybe polish them up and make wall art out of them!

tiger1964 

Yeah, I recall early 1970's: 95% of junk bikes were LF, 95% of "good" bikes were HF... but it was never 100% for either.

Agreed on the looks but for me I like the look of round holes. That said, I presume I'll never own a set of Airlites. But for the one set of Tipos I have, not in use yet, the realization that they are an oxymoron: Bargain Campy. I'd like to try one of two things I've read here about Tipos, (a) polishing the races & cones by riding while using valve grinding compound (??) as grease, or (b) it's supposedly possible to fit sealed bearings.

Kabuki12

Those sure are!!! CLASSY

C9H13N 

I think high flange Nuovo Tipos are the most beautiful of all hubs.

Unfortunately I don’t have a set.

daka

Maybe I just swallowed a hook, but I believed the guy that told me that high flange hubs originated back in the day of fixed gears as it allowed a spoke to be changed on the road without having to having to wrestle the sprocket off. That same logic would explain the hi/lo hub.

clubman 

Not unreasonable.

Darth Lefty 

They didn't go anywhere

JaccoW

I made a list a couple of years ago of modern high-flange cassette hubs with some help of the community.
You can find it here: Experiences with current High Flange Cassette hubs?

I might need to update it again.

unterhausen

I think it was mostly the fact that spoke angle is better with low flange. And high flange really doesn't add anything other than weight.

Charles Wahl

What about the spoke angle is "better" with a low-flange hub? To me, especially on rear drive side, it seems that a high flange hub means less spoke angle lost to dish, and with a hi-lo hub, the spoke angles of drive and non-drive sides are closer to being equal, along with spoke tension. If "better" is "more aero", well OK, if that's your personal litmus test. Mine would be structural optimization.

oneclick 

I suspect by "spoke angle" he means the angle at which the spoke enters the rim, which of course is best if the angle is such that the nipple is normal to its seating surface. With a plain rim that has spoke holes drilled at 90 degrees this is achieved with radial lacing and a hub of zero diameter. The larger the flange gets the worse this angle is (worse for stress concentration in the spoke, nipple, and seat).

However, with rims in the 500-plus ERD and hubs of normal size this is not really an issue, and it's possible that the benefit of a slight better bracing angle (which may be what you mean), not to mention the ease of tangential lacing, outweigh it. Special situations do occur, ebikes with hub motors and small wheels can have problems. I've only run into this problem twice: once lacing a Nexus 8-speed hub to a 305 rim - fortunately I had started with a rim with the wrong number of holes, had them plug welded and made a jig and drilled my own at the correct angles; and one putting a larger-than-stock hub into a motorcycle wheel; for that I drilled the existing spoke holes oversize and had a run of dimpled steel spoke washers made to fit under the nipples.

Deal4Fuji

That was my era of getting into nicer (than dept. store) bikes too and I love this time period with lots of chrome & horizontal top tubes. I finally got my 2nd high flange hub bike on the road just last night, doing what I know shouldn't be done but having the maiden voyage on a group ride. I love Monday's in my town & Tuesday's in a neighboring town for no drop nights where I bring out the oldest & heaviest.
Norm !...andy hubs & Sturmy Archer chrome rims, cottered cranks & center pull brakes on this '73 Raleigh Grand Prix - Cheers

SJX426 

Tipo hub with kidney slots
LC_FrntHub_05w on Flickr

Typical Tipo
P1030669 on Flickr

The untouchable Record even works on a 2010 frame set!
2010 Specialized Langster Steel - 61 cm again! on Flickr