waddo

After our first tour with my wife on her new LHT, we need to change breaks. We had some 1.6km km altitude mountains. Breaking for over an hour was impossible for her and the only way down was to stop every minute or two so she could rest her fingers. For normal and hilly riding she is fine but we have extreme conditions in Japan when we tour.

I have heard that V breaks offer greater breaking power. I want to try this before going to the expense of changing the drop bars to straight. (Her previous bike was a Specialized Sirrus Comp and she had not trouble at all on similar roads.)

So my questions: Are there different types of V breaks and if so, which work best? Any particular brand? Also, is there any problem changing from cantilever to V breaks on a LHT? I am not good at bike mechanics but would prefer to do it myself if possible. Finally, is there anything else besides V breaks that some can recommend. (We have no interest in disk breaks on a touring bike and would rather avoid that discussion).

Cheers

Waddo

dabac

Leverage is leverage. What you gain in one end you lose in another.
Properly set up, there's little to no gain in rim pinch force in going from cantis to Vs.
Vs are easier to set up, but not (much) stronger by definition.
Vs require more cable pull than cantis, so unless you're willing to accept an unorthodox combo you will have to replace the lever too, or mount a thingy called a Travel Agent.
They're a little fiddly to set up, somewhat sensitive to contanimation and may shorten cable life some.
But generally OK and reliable, with a little more upkeep.

I think your first order of business should be to look over your canti setup.
The geometry, choice of pads, quality and installation of cables, cleanliness of rims...
Next would be braking technique.
"Riding" the brakes ie (near) constant braking is considered poor technique. Short bursts of harder braking is easier on both rider and equipment.

After that, it gets more exotic.
Discs are the kings WRT braking power vs hand effort.
And you say you don't want that.

One oddball thing to try is to run a front V-brake from a canti lever.
It will increase leverage, give more braking for a set amount of hand effort.
But pads needs to be run real close to the rim, and frequently adjusted. Removing wheel may require deflating the tire.
It is unlikely to work well on the rear due to the extra slop in the system b/c of the longer cabling run. Levers tend to bottom out early.
An expensive option is to get wheels built with ceramic coated rims.
The increased friction from the ceramic coating results in more braking for a set amount of hand effort.

By all means try Vs. But any big improvement is more likely to be from something else(pads, cabling) than the principal change from cantis to Vs)

Edit:
Is she braking from the hoods most of the time?
That, particularly with smaller-than-average hands, will take more effort.
Why not try interrupter levers?
Might be an inexpensive way to better braking and better ergonomics.

BobG

waddo-

I've found that the addition of cross-top (interrupter) levers to be the best way to add braking power to drop bars. See https://www.bikeforums.net/19795516-post7.html for photo. They simply add the ergonomic power braking position of mountain bike brake levers to the top of drops. There is only a limited amount of long term power one can apply curling the fingers around standard levers at the hoods or bending neck and stretching the fingers from the drops. Cross top levers are perfect for long extended descents, gravel or paved, and address that problem.

52telecaster

i agree with the interrupter levers. i use them on mustache bars with no other lever and they are great. my girlfriend had small hands and started with them first.

seeker333

The least costly way you can try this is to change the brake calipers from cantilever to Vee and the levers to long-cable-pull variety. I recommend Avid, Shimano or Tektro for calipers and Tektro for levers. I have had excellent results with Avid Single Digit 7 calipers. Lever-wise choices are more limited, Tektro FL520 or the cloned (and more expensive) Cane Creek Drop V lever are compatible with Vee brakes and fit drop handlebar. Changing to flat bar is not necessary to convert to Vee brakes. For the first time in more than a decade, Surly switched the 2017 Complete LHT from cantilever to Vee brakes. The Surly Cross Check Complete also is now equipped with Vee brakes.

jefnvk

When I went from Shimano Altus cantis to some cheap Tektro vees, the difference was night and day regarding stopping power. I don't think they're really any easier on the hands than cantis, though. Do remember you likely need to change levers, as others have mentioned. Do yourself a favor and pair whatever you go with with some Kool-Stop pads.

mstateglfr 

yup- interrupter brakes is what i was going to mention, like others have.

if anything, it will give her a different hand position to allow for different muscles to engage while braking.

Vbrakes do, at least for me, seem to lock up a wheel faster than canti brakes, but I dont think they are actually better performing. I enjoy cantis more because they seem to have some braking time before locking up and i like that.
If the canti's arent properly set up, then as mentioned that too could be an issue.


Anyways, there is a reason why some women's road bikes come with interruptor brakes- comfort and ease of use. Smaller hands can grip them easier than some STI brake lever designs.

Tourist in MSN

If you install V brakes, you did not talk about tire size or whether or not you have fenders (mudguards) on the bike. There are mini-V brakes that have short arms that can work with your existing brake levers. But those might not fit if you use larger tires or fenders. I use mini-V brakes on my folding bike, they take very little effort to pull, I have to be careful that I do not pull the brake lever on the front too hard or I could flip over the bike.

If you use longer arms on your V brakes, you should use a travel agent to convert the short cable pull brake lever to the brakes that require longer cable pull. I attached photos of bikes I have that have long arm V brakes with the travel agent. The second photo shows the travel agent quite well, google problem solvers travel agent for more information on that.

Some brake arm lengths are listed in this table.
Tech Tip: V-Brake Arm Lengths ? GRAVELBIKE

Fully agree. If you try to add these levers, cutting the outer housing for the cable has to be quite accurate for length. If you do not have good cable cutting tools, you may want to have a good bike shop install them. But to save money you could put on the new handlebar tape yourself later.

Brian25

It's BRAKES not BREAKS. Learn how to spell.

saddlesores

jeeze, learn some grammers.

THEIR brakes, not breaks.

fietsbob

the Lever has been understood for over 2000 miles..

V brakes are a type 2 lever.. fulcrum at the end.. work , where the pad is, and effort is the far end where the cables attach .

longer the lever the further the effort end has to move, to do the work.

mini V brakes are a shorter lever, so effort end swing is less ie less cable pull..



I really like the German Magura hydraulic rim brakes.. they attach to V/cantildever bosses.


the pads move in a straight line to the rim, the pads attached to the hydraulic piston.
hose from hand lever - master goes to one cylinder, balance tube goes to the other..


I have been using mine for 9 years.. Kool Stop makes pads for them, too..






.....

jefnvk

Wouldn't it actually be They're, not Their? I don't see anything in possession of the brakes.

Timequake

If you have to stop every few minutes to rest your braking fingers on a descent, the switch from cantilever to V brakes isn't going to do anything for you. The increase in stopping power is minimal at best, especially if your canti brakes are set up properly. Tell her to do some finger push-ups.

indyfabz

My ex-GF's LHT came with interrupters.

fietsbob

To have the increased leverage at the rim, from the caliper... the leverage at the brake lever has to be reduced.

Doug64

+1

I've done it both ways. I have interrupter levers on my touring bike and my wife's bike is set up with v-brakes and STI shifters. I run good cantis (Paul) on my bike with KoolStop salmon pads and the Cross levers add some leverage for stopping. My wife's brakes are Avid Single Digit 7 with Travel agent. They are still more efficient than my brakes; and yes, I know how to set up canti brakes.



Cable and set up of a Travel Agent with V-brakes is pretty easy, and once installed require very little maintenance. I believe my wife has 18,000 miles on her front brake cable.

Squeezebox

isn't it pushups not push-ups!! Or is this back to the bra thread?

Rob_E

I built my LHT up from a frame, so I never had the stock cantis, but instead I started with V-brakes. They were fine. I don't know if the change will help your wife. Braking for over an hour sounds painful no matter what the brake is, so I doubt it's a question of brake style so much as hand position. And it sounds like you know what bar/lever combination can be used without causing problems. I'd go straight to that.

In terms of stopping power, I felt like switching to some Kool Stop pads were a huge improvement over whatever generic pads came with my brakes. Problem is, even with Kool Stop pads, you have to squeeze brake levers to stop, and you have to keep squeezing if you want to maintain slow, downhill speeds. If your bar/lever set-up leaves you uncomfortable, better stopping power won't help. It will just help you descend even slower so that you have to hold that position even longer.

indyfabz

"Grammer" is a spelling mistake.

52telecaster

+1

Doug64

I suspect it was done on purpose, tongue-in-cheek

Doug64

IME this has not been the case.

mstateglfr 

Its a post by Saddle...take it with a grain of salt...or many grains. He cap'd the word as a joke- he pointed out a grammatical error while making grammatical errors. An irony of sorts.

Tourist in MSN

Regarding the spelling and grammar errors by the OP, I am guessing from his post that he is in Asia and not a native English speaker. Since this forum is not intended to be limited to people from English speaking countries, I think it polite to accept slight errors in grammar and spelling without getting accusatory or offensive.

waddo

I really want to really thank everyone who posted on this thread (except the pedantic guy who doesn't know the difference between a typographical mistake concerning homophones and a spelling mistake). I appreciate all the information offered.

So concerning the BRAKES, and this is a serious issue for us.

"Sounds like she is braking with her hand on the hood...which make anyone's hand tire quickly."

Yes she is only braking from the hoods. She cannot reach from the lower bar as she has small hands.

"Braking for over an hour sounds painful no matter what the brake is, so I doubt it's a question of brake style . . ."

I have been riding my LHT for 3 years and when we go down 10% slopes and descend almost 2km of elevation my fingers are really hurting at the end.

"When I went from Shimano Altus cantis to some cheap Tektro vees, the difference was night and day regarding stopping power. I don't think they're really any easier on the hands than cantis, though. Do remember you likely need to change levers, as others have mentioned. Do yourself a favor and pair whatever you go with with some Kool-Stop pads."

"top levers are perfect for long extended descents, gravel or paved, and address that problem."


With her old bike with straight bars and V brakes she had ZERO trouble. I am starting to realise that perhaps it is the drop bars with the racing style hooded brakes (sorry I don't know the correct name) that is actually the problem, and not canti vs V brakes? And she already has salmon Kool-Stop pads. Also I think the levers are too big for her and too far from the handlebars, so maybe levers made for kids/women would help? So it is the leverage causing the problem.

"Top levers" seems to be a good solution. However, I am a bit worried that the central position on the bars will make her nervous as it reduces steering ability. She is new to drop bars and even on flat she is still a bit reluctant to ride with her hands at the top. I admit this is mainly because she cannot reach the brakes from there but I know steering is much better when riding the hoods. I have no experience with top levers so I a a bit worried.

All in all I think we maybe should just change to straight bars like her old bike. It's an expensive solution but I wonder if we have any real choice as this is a safety issue and in Japan our routes are always over mountains and descending for over one hour is common.

Any thoughts?