TdF Stage 17 - Wednesday July 22 - 169 km - Bourg-Saint-Maurice → Le Grand-Bornand
07-22-09, 02:20 PM
#376
Dog is my copilot.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 802
Bikes: Lemond Maillot Jaune, Specialized Stumpjumper, Kona Jake the Snake, Single-Speed Rigid Rocky Mtn Equipe, Soon-to-be fixed Bianchi Brava
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Personally, in hindsight I think AC made a mistake, but I can't help thinking the Bruyneel's strategy has always been for LA and I think that even more so after reading this:
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/220720...-bruyneel.html
That's twice now Bruyneel has told AC not to attack. Methinks he's trying to sandbag him.
Can you imagine Bruyneel telling LA not to attack? Give me a break. All it takes is a bad 5 minutes on Ventoux or a crash in the TT and the Andy Schlek could have the overall. Obviously, AC attacking didn't work out, but ordering your best rider to hold back so you can get LA on the podium seems a pretty dubious strategy.
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/220720...-bruyneel.html
That's twice now Bruyneel has told AC not to attack. Methinks he's trying to sandbag him.
Can you imagine Bruyneel telling LA not to attack? Give me a break. All it takes is a bad 5 minutes on Ventoux or a crash in the TT and the Andy Schlek could have the overall. Obviously, AC attacking didn't work out, but ordering your best rider to hold back so you can get LA on the podium seems a pretty dubious strategy.
07-22-09, 02:21 PM
#377
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
07-22-09, 02:21 PM
#378
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chesapeake Bay, MD
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
MY sense is that Lance rode a team ride today. Too bad he missed the separation, but he sure covered after that and did a very nice job of picking up Kloden as he went by. Nice to see him still up there.
07-22-09, 02:22 PM
#379
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: julian, ca
Posts: 598
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
07-22-09, 02:23 PM
#380
enginerd
Lance wouldn't know, he was down the mountain trying to catch up. If he's all about the team, why would he even make a comment like that. That's clearly going to cause a stir. If he doesn't know what happened, the don't say anything until you find out.
It was easy for Lance to follow orders, because the team strategy was always built around him winning. Ya can't say that's the case with Astana and Contador this year. There weren't any problems on Astana until Lance came back.
It was easy for Lance to follow orders, because the team strategy was always built around him winning. Ya can't say that's the case with Astana and Contador this year. There weren't any problems on Astana until Lance came back.
07-22-09, 02:27 PM
#381
Dog is my copilot.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 802
Bikes: Lemond Maillot Jaune, Specialized Stumpjumper, Kona Jake the Snake, Single-Speed Rigid Rocky Mtn Equipe, Soon-to-be fixed Bianchi Brava
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'm new to watching bike racing, so please excuse my ignorance. Why is it OK for Contador to intentionally put time on his own teammates, but it isn't OK for his teammates to put time on him? It seems that if Contador is allowed to race Lance then Lance should be allowed to race back. How is Contador's acceleration justified if it put time on Armstrong? If we are playing the team game, then who cares what the time is between teammates? If we are racing as individuals, then it seems Lance should show us more of what we've seen yesterday and today.
Well, if the strategy of your team is to have the best rider win, then you want your best rider putting time into everybody, including your teammates if they are present with your main rivals. You then use your other riders to support him by setting tough paces and dropping off, going back for bottles etc.
If Contador has a bad day, well then that's when you tell Kloden or Armstrong to go for it, because at that point your team might lose the overall, but its silly to hold you best rider back, especially with only 2:26 lead with a TT and the hardest climb of the Tour still to come.
07-22-09, 02:28 PM
#382
Bromptoneer
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 2,942
Bikes: Brompton S2L
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Contador defends his attack, but even Johan Bruyneel doesn't sound too pleased.
https://www.velonews.com/article/9568...uyneel-doesn-t
https://www.velonews.com/article/9568...uyneel-doesn-t
Alberto Contador attacked once on the Col de la Colombičre near the end of Wednesdays queen stage, but it didnt make anyone happy on the Astana team.
Contadors surge with about 2km to go to the Colombičre didnt gap the victorious Schleck brothers, but it popped Astanas Andreas Klöden out of the back of the elite, four-man group.
Klöden eventually lost 2:27 to the Schlecks and opened the door for the Schlecks to slip into second and third.
Astana team boss Johan Bruyneel was none too pleased with his young pupil, suggesting that Contadors aggression might have cost the team a chance to sweep the final podium in Paris.
I told him you dont have to attack to win the Tour de France today, because the difference was there to Wiggins, Bruyneel said after the stage. Its a bit of a pity that Andreas couldnt hang on, because I think we could have been first, second and third on GC, and instead, we are first, fourth and fifth.
Bruyneel said Contadors punch played into the hands of the Schleck brothers, upping the tempo and leaving Klöden isolated for the final two kilometers to the summit.
I had advice not to do. He didnt need to go, Bruyneel said. It was clear that the Schleck brothers would go full gas to the summit.
Klöden was immediately gapped by 20 seconds as the Schleck brothers chased down Contador. Realizing that Klöden was on the ropes, the Schlecks went even harder. At the summit, Klöden was 1:15 back and lost even more time on the descent.
Klöden, who rarely speaks with reporters, did not have anything to say at the finish line, so its hard to gauge his reaction. He was able to stay with the Schlecks until Contador attacked, but he was also clearly struggling on the upper reaches of the climb and the 15km descent.
After the dust settled, the Schlecks took the psychological advantage of slotting into second and third, at 2:26 and 3:25 back, respectively, while Klöden, who started fourth at 2:17, drifted back to fifth at 4:44 back.
Those two minutes will be hard to recover for Klöden, despite being a superior time trialist to the Schlecks.
Lance Armstrong who started the day second, slipped to fourth, now 3:55 back also wondered about Contadors need to attack in that situation.
When asked about Contadors attack, Armstrong said: I really wasnt paying attention. I wanna bite my tongue on that one.
Armstrong made a strong surge late in the stage to narrow the gap to the Schlecks, but Contadors accelerations seemed to spur the Luxembourg brothers along even further. Armstrong caught Klöden on the descent and they came across the line with Vicenzo Nibali (Liquigas).
I got caught out tactically a bit. I didnt follow the accelerations and then tactically I have to stay with other teams, Armstrong said. I was stuck there with Wiggins and I couldnt go until the end when it was steeper. In hindsight, I probably should have gone with the earlier accelerations.
Contador defended his move.
The Spanish climber said the days main goal was to get rid of Bradley Wiggins (Garmin-Slipstream), who they considered the most dangerous GC rival.
The British rider was popped early on the final climb and was more than two minutes behind, riding with Armstrong, when Contador decided to punch the accelerator.
Contador had patiently marked the rhythm set by the Schlecks on the Romme and Colombičre climbs and clearly had good legs when he made his stab.
Contador shot ahead, checked the reactions from the Schlecks and then dropped back on the wheel when he saw it was Klöden who was the main victim of the aggression.
It was too bad (about Klöden). I spoke with Bruyneel about it, who told me to speak with Klöden, and he told me that, yes, attack if I wanted to, Contador said. I thought that I might be able to go alone or just with Andy, but the only one who stayed behind was Klöden. Thats why I decided to stop, to see if he could come back, but in the end, he lost a lot.
Contador insisted that he was trying to blow away the Schlecks, and quickly sat up when he realized that Klöden was getting gapped. Contador kept looking back to check on the fading Klöden, but wisely chose to stay with the attacking Schlecks and rode it to the line.
I wanted to do like I did on Verbier, but there werent the same gaps and Klöden was behind, so I decided to wait for him, Contador said. In the end, I went to the finish line to conclude in the best manner possible. I am not at all happy about what happened with Klöden.
The days polemic clearly shows Contadors independence streak during this Tour.
Just like he did at Arcalis and Verbier, Contador is riding his own race.
Contadors surge with about 2km to go to the Colombičre didnt gap the victorious Schleck brothers, but it popped Astanas Andreas Klöden out of the back of the elite, four-man group.
Klöden eventually lost 2:27 to the Schlecks and opened the door for the Schlecks to slip into second and third.
Astana team boss Johan Bruyneel was none too pleased with his young pupil, suggesting that Contadors aggression might have cost the team a chance to sweep the final podium in Paris.
I told him you dont have to attack to win the Tour de France today, because the difference was there to Wiggins, Bruyneel said after the stage. Its a bit of a pity that Andreas couldnt hang on, because I think we could have been first, second and third on GC, and instead, we are first, fourth and fifth.
Bruyneel said Contadors punch played into the hands of the Schleck brothers, upping the tempo and leaving Klöden isolated for the final two kilometers to the summit.
I had advice not to do. He didnt need to go, Bruyneel said. It was clear that the Schleck brothers would go full gas to the summit.
Klöden was immediately gapped by 20 seconds as the Schleck brothers chased down Contador. Realizing that Klöden was on the ropes, the Schlecks went even harder. At the summit, Klöden was 1:15 back and lost even more time on the descent.
Klöden, who rarely speaks with reporters, did not have anything to say at the finish line, so its hard to gauge his reaction. He was able to stay with the Schlecks until Contador attacked, but he was also clearly struggling on the upper reaches of the climb and the 15km descent.
After the dust settled, the Schlecks took the psychological advantage of slotting into second and third, at 2:26 and 3:25 back, respectively, while Klöden, who started fourth at 2:17, drifted back to fifth at 4:44 back.
Those two minutes will be hard to recover for Klöden, despite being a superior time trialist to the Schlecks.
Lance Armstrong who started the day second, slipped to fourth, now 3:55 back also wondered about Contadors need to attack in that situation.
When asked about Contadors attack, Armstrong said: I really wasnt paying attention. I wanna bite my tongue on that one.
Armstrong made a strong surge late in the stage to narrow the gap to the Schlecks, but Contadors accelerations seemed to spur the Luxembourg brothers along even further. Armstrong caught Klöden on the descent and they came across the line with Vicenzo Nibali (Liquigas).
I got caught out tactically a bit. I didnt follow the accelerations and then tactically I have to stay with other teams, Armstrong said. I was stuck there with Wiggins and I couldnt go until the end when it was steeper. In hindsight, I probably should have gone with the earlier accelerations.
Contador defended his move.
The Spanish climber said the days main goal was to get rid of Bradley Wiggins (Garmin-Slipstream), who they considered the most dangerous GC rival.
The British rider was popped early on the final climb and was more than two minutes behind, riding with Armstrong, when Contador decided to punch the accelerator.
Contador had patiently marked the rhythm set by the Schlecks on the Romme and Colombičre climbs and clearly had good legs when he made his stab.
Contador shot ahead, checked the reactions from the Schlecks and then dropped back on the wheel when he saw it was Klöden who was the main victim of the aggression.
It was too bad (about Klöden). I spoke with Bruyneel about it, who told me to speak with Klöden, and he told me that, yes, attack if I wanted to, Contador said. I thought that I might be able to go alone or just with Andy, but the only one who stayed behind was Klöden. Thats why I decided to stop, to see if he could come back, but in the end, he lost a lot.
Contador insisted that he was trying to blow away the Schlecks, and quickly sat up when he realized that Klöden was getting gapped. Contador kept looking back to check on the fading Klöden, but wisely chose to stay with the attacking Schlecks and rode it to the line.
I wanted to do like I did on Verbier, but there werent the same gaps and Klöden was behind, so I decided to wait for him, Contador said. In the end, I went to the finish line to conclude in the best manner possible. I am not at all happy about what happened with Klöden.
The days polemic clearly shows Contadors independence streak during this Tour.
Just like he did at Arcalis and Verbier, Contador is riding his own race.
07-22-09, 02:30 PM
#383
Dog is my copilot.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 802
Bikes: Lemond Maillot Jaune, Specialized Stumpjumper, Kona Jake the Snake, Single-Speed Rigid Rocky Mtn Equipe, Soon-to-be fixed Bianchi Brava
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Really? Winning the Giro, the Vuelta and numerous other races isn't exciting for you? There are also many of us who enjoyed cycling just as much before and after LA as much as we do now and when he was racing before.
07-22-09, 02:34 PM
#384
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: n.w. superdrome
Posts: 17,687
Bikes: 1 trek, serotta, rih, de Reus, Pogliaghi and finally a Zieleman! and got a DeRosa
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times
in
9 Posts
ok, quick question, doesn't the entire team hear what is being said in the car?
wouldn't lance know what Johan told Alberto?
I've always thought the communication was to everyone on the team, not
to specific riders. If that's so that would be how Lance knew even though he was some
minutes back.
wouldn't lance know what Johan told Alberto?
I've always thought the communication was to everyone on the team, not
to specific riders. If that's so that would be how Lance knew even though he was some
minutes back.
__________________
Sono piů lento di quel che sembra.
Odio la gente, tutti.
Want to upgrade your membership? Click Here.
Sono piů lento di quel che sembra.
Odio la gente, tutti.
Want to upgrade your membership? Click Here.
07-22-09, 02:34 PM
#385
Climbing Above It All
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Basking in the Sun.
Posts: 4,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Personally, in hindsight I think AC made a mistake, but I can't help thinking the Bruyneel's strategy has always been for LA and I think that even more so after reading this:
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/220720...-bruyneel.html
That's twice now Bruyneel has told AC not to attack. Methinks he's trying to sandbag him.
Can you imagine Bruyneel telling LA not to attack? Give me a break. All it takes is a bad 5 minutes on Ventoux or a crash in the TT and the Andy Schlek could have the overall. Obviously, AC attacking didn't work out, but ordering your best rider to hold back so you can get LA on the podium seems a pretty dubious strategy.
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/220720...-bruyneel.html
That's twice now Bruyneel has told AC not to attack. Methinks he's trying to sandbag him.
Can you imagine Bruyneel telling LA not to attack? Give me a break. All it takes is a bad 5 minutes on Ventoux or a crash in the TT and the Andy Schlek could have the overall. Obviously, AC attacking didn't work out, but ordering your best rider to hold back so you can get LA on the podium seems a pretty dubious strategy.
07-22-09, 02:39 PM
#386
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 792
Bikes: Brodie Force w/ Xtracycle, Dahon Helios, Merida Folding, Pacific Carryme, Softride Classic
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Communication Breakdown
When Alberto Contador attacked on Colombiere, he widened his overall lead--but hurt his teammates in the process.
By James Startt
Once again, it seems that Alberto Contador has a hearing problem. And although he consolidated his lead today on stage 17 of the Tour de France, his attack on the final climb, the Colombiere, brought criticism from within his Astana team.
The move occurred roughly 3 kilometers from the summit, and less than 20 kilometers from the finish. Until then, the team was in a perfect position to help German rider Andreas Kloden move into the top three, as Contador and Kloden had broken free along with Andy and Frank Schleck. But when Contador attacked, only his own teammate could not follow.
Although he quickly let up, Saxo Bank's Schleck brothers accelerated to take further time out of Kloden. By the finish Kloden had lost 2:27 to the lead trio.
While Lance Armstrong and Kloden started the day ideally positioned in second and fourth place, respectively, they now have slipped to fourth and fifth.
At the finish in Le Grand Bornand, Johan Bruyneel could no longer hide his frustration. "I'm not happy about Alberto's attack on the Colombiere," he said. "The goal was to take time out of Bradley Wiggins and we were doing that. But it was not necessary to attack on the Colombiere. Before that moment we were looking at a one, two, three finish in Paris. Now we're looking more likely at a one, four, five finish."
Even Kim Anderson, director of the Schleck brothers on Saxo Bank, admitted his surprise. "Our plan was to attack early and break free with Contador," he said. "But our plan was definitely not to have Kloden get dropped by his own teammate."
Contador immediately defended his actions. "I'm sad for Kloden," he said at the press conference after the stage. "When I attacked I wanted to try to break free for the stage win or may just get away with Andy. But once I saw that Andreas was dropped I immediately slowed."
The communication breakdown between Contador and his Astana team is not the first at this year's Tour de France. Tensions between the Spaniard and the Bruyneel and Armstrong have been well documented throughout the race: On the first stage in the Pyrenees, Contador broke from team tactics by attacking in the final kilometers before the finish in Andorra. "That wasn't really the plan," Armstrong said bluntly after that stage. "But I didn't expect him to go by the plan. I wasn't surprised."
For his part, Bruyneel said that poor radio transmission also was to blame for any mix-up. Contador's attack, of course, showed no hesitation.
Contador has felt increasingly isolated within the team and he knows that, regardless of the final result of this year's Tour, he will part ways with Bruyneel and Armstrong at the end of the year, and perhaps even at the end of the Tour as Armstrong and Bruyneel will officially announce their new 2010 team on Thursday morning.
After the stage Contador also said of the situation, "I spoke with Bruyneel about the attack, and he said to speak with Kloden and Andreas said to go for it." The radio static may have confused the message between the riders and team cars.
As the communication divide continues within the Astana team, they need to hurry up and get to Paris. For Contador, only four more stages and five more dinners with his teammates separate him from winning his second Tour de France.
When Alberto Contador attacked on Colombiere, he widened his overall lead--but hurt his teammates in the process.
By James Startt
Once again, it seems that Alberto Contador has a hearing problem. And although he consolidated his lead today on stage 17 of the Tour de France, his attack on the final climb, the Colombiere, brought criticism from within his Astana team.
The move occurred roughly 3 kilometers from the summit, and less than 20 kilometers from the finish. Until then, the team was in a perfect position to help German rider Andreas Kloden move into the top three, as Contador and Kloden had broken free along with Andy and Frank Schleck. But when Contador attacked, only his own teammate could not follow.
Although he quickly let up, Saxo Bank's Schleck brothers accelerated to take further time out of Kloden. By the finish Kloden had lost 2:27 to the lead trio.
While Lance Armstrong and Kloden started the day ideally positioned in second and fourth place, respectively, they now have slipped to fourth and fifth.
At the finish in Le Grand Bornand, Johan Bruyneel could no longer hide his frustration. "I'm not happy about Alberto's attack on the Colombiere," he said. "The goal was to take time out of Bradley Wiggins and we were doing that. But it was not necessary to attack on the Colombiere. Before that moment we were looking at a one, two, three finish in Paris. Now we're looking more likely at a one, four, five finish."
Even Kim Anderson, director of the Schleck brothers on Saxo Bank, admitted his surprise. "Our plan was to attack early and break free with Contador," he said. "But our plan was definitely not to have Kloden get dropped by his own teammate."
Contador immediately defended his actions. "I'm sad for Kloden," he said at the press conference after the stage. "When I attacked I wanted to try to break free for the stage win or may just get away with Andy. But once I saw that Andreas was dropped I immediately slowed."
The communication breakdown between Contador and his Astana team is not the first at this year's Tour de France. Tensions between the Spaniard and the Bruyneel and Armstrong have been well documented throughout the race: On the first stage in the Pyrenees, Contador broke from team tactics by attacking in the final kilometers before the finish in Andorra. "That wasn't really the plan," Armstrong said bluntly after that stage. "But I didn't expect him to go by the plan. I wasn't surprised."
For his part, Bruyneel said that poor radio transmission also was to blame for any mix-up. Contador's attack, of course, showed no hesitation.
Contador has felt increasingly isolated within the team and he knows that, regardless of the final result of this year's Tour, he will part ways with Bruyneel and Armstrong at the end of the year, and perhaps even at the end of the Tour as Armstrong and Bruyneel will officially announce their new 2010 team on Thursday morning.
After the stage Contador also said of the situation, "I spoke with Bruyneel about the attack, and he said to speak with Kloden and Andreas said to go for it." The radio static may have confused the message between the riders and team cars.
As the communication divide continues within the Astana team, they need to hurry up and get to Paris. For Contador, only four more stages and five more dinners with his teammates separate him from winning his second Tour de France.
07-22-09, 02:40 PM
#387
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Personally, in hindsight I think AC made a mistake, but I can't help thinking the Bruyneel's strategy has always been for LA and I think that even more so after reading this:
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/220720...-bruyneel.html
That's twice now Bruyneel has told AC not to attack. Methinks he's trying to sandbag him.
Can you imagine Bruyneel telling LA not to attack? Give me a break. All it takes is a bad 5 minutes on Ventoux or a crash in the TT and the Andy Schlek could have the overall. Obviously, AC attacking didn't work out, but ordering your best rider to hold back so you can get LA on the podium seems a pretty dubious strategy.
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/220720...-bruyneel.html
That's twice now Bruyneel has told AC not to attack. Methinks he's trying to sandbag him.
Can you imagine Bruyneel telling LA not to attack? Give me a break. All it takes is a bad 5 minutes on Ventoux or a crash in the TT and the Andy Schlek could have the overall. Obviously, AC attacking didn't work out, but ordering your best rider to hold back so you can get LA on the podium seems a pretty dubious strategy.
Is the goal to win? Or to make sure that Kloden and Armstrong finish well? This has been the problem with Astana from the start. AC could have huge lead if he was allowed to attack in the Pyrenees. Bruyneel should never have allowed the who's #1 question even enter into play. The strategy to try and keep Lance and Kloden near the top also allows the Schlecks to stay close to Contador, the guy leading the race.
It seems like Astana's goal is trying to prove that they're the strongest team by putting 3 guys on the podium. As opposed to doing everything they can to ensure the strongest rider wins.
07-22-09, 02:41 PM
#388
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: silicon valley
Posts: 1,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
We'll never know what would have happened to Kloden if AC did not attack when he did, but what we do know is that AC screwed the pooch for Astana when he did attack. That was just poor teamwork plain and simple. Astana was looking at a possible sweep of the podium and now that looks less likely. I'm sure no one at Astana is very pleased tonight.
i just watched the replay. it was obvious that contador was trying to drop one or both schreks but instead dropped kloden. maybe not the best strategy but in the end the result was perfect going into a TT that does not favor either he or the schreks.
overall a great day for contador and team astana.
ed rader
07-22-09, 02:45 PM
#389
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
In this case though the team could have attained other goals while not losing anytime on the main goal. the team got weaker today. Instead of 1,2,3 they sit 1,4,5. Thats not a good result no matter how you strategize it.
07-22-09, 02:46 PM
#390
Lance Hater
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,403
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
"I spoke about attacking the Schleck brothers with [team director] Johan Bruyneel, the goal was to gain minutes. I also spoke with Klöden on the climb, and he told me to go for it," Contador said.
Well there ya go.
Well there ya go.
07-22-09, 02:48 PM
#392
Climbing Above It All
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Basking in the Sun.
Posts: 4,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
AC wouldn't lose the either Schleck this Tour. That is a given. So why not fill the podium with Astana? That is a goal too. But AC chose to think about himself first today and not team goals. I've seen LA be a great team player this Tour and show way more class than AC has for sure. The TT will shuffle the GC standings once again and then the Ventoux will do the final sorting. We'll see if AC can do the team thing on Ventoux or he might just ride the victory lap in Paris alone.
07-22-09, 02:51 PM
#393
Climbing Above It All
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Basking in the Sun.
Posts: 4,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
i don't agree with that at all. the yellow jersey is a win for the whole team, unless you have your own agenda. i imagine that lance, bruyneel, levi are not happy but screw them....i mean really.
i just watched the replay. it was obvious that contador was trying to drop one or both schreks but instead dropped kloden. maybe not the best strategy but in the end the result was perfect going into a TT that does not favor either he or the schreks.
overall a great day for contador and team astana.
ed rader
i just watched the replay. it was obvious that contador was trying to drop one or both schreks but instead dropped kloden. maybe not the best strategy but in the end the result was perfect going into a TT that does not favor either he or the schreks.
overall a great day for contador and team astana.
ed rader
07-22-09, 02:51 PM
#394
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 792
Bikes: Brodie Force w/ Xtracycle, Dahon Helios, Merida Folding, Pacific Carryme, Softride Classic
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Good day for Contador. Not so good for Astana.
What I find humorous is Contador "letting" Schleck win the stage to build alliances knowing his bridges with Astana and Astana-riders are smoldering in ashes from his unauthorized breakaways.
Perhaps Bruyneel created unnecessary insecurity by not naming Contador as team leader at the outset. Hence, Alberto's need to constantly assert himself in individual breakaways. But any rider who doesn't follow team orders consistently has a limited future on the TdF IMO.
I wonder if any of the post-race arm chair quarterbacking would be any different it it had been Armstrong who had been dropped and not Kloden.
Last thing. I don't understand why Contador (since he had the legs), to breakaway from the Shreks and leave everybody in the dust to build up more of a lead for tomorrow's ITT. One anaylsis said that it was downhill past the summit and he needed Kloden to help against the Schleck brothers? Is it somehow more dangerous to go downhill alone than to travel in a group or 3 or 4?
What I find humorous is Contador "letting" Schleck win the stage to build alliances knowing his bridges with Astana and Astana-riders are smoldering in ashes from his unauthorized breakaways.
Perhaps Bruyneel created unnecessary insecurity by not naming Contador as team leader at the outset. Hence, Alberto's need to constantly assert himself in individual breakaways. But any rider who doesn't follow team orders consistently has a limited future on the TdF IMO.
I wonder if any of the post-race arm chair quarterbacking would be any different it it had been Armstrong who had been dropped and not Kloden.
Last thing. I don't understand why Contador (since he had the legs), to breakaway from the Shreks and leave everybody in the dust to build up more of a lead for tomorrow's ITT. One anaylsis said that it was downhill past the summit and he needed Kloden to help against the Schleck brothers? Is it somehow more dangerous to go downhill alone than to travel in a group or 3 or 4?
07-22-09, 02:54 PM
#395
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
We'll never know what would have happened to Kloden if AC did not attack when he did, but what we do know is that AC screwed the pooch for Astana when he did attack. That was just poor teamwork plain and simple. Astana was looking at a possible sweep of the podium and now that looks less likely. I'm sure no one at Astana is very pleased tonight.
07-22-09, 02:54 PM
#396
Dog is my copilot.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 802
Bikes: Lemond Maillot Jaune, Specialized Stumpjumper, Kona Jake the Snake, Single-Speed Rigid Rocky Mtn Equipe, Soon-to-be fixed Bianchi Brava
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Trying to sweep the podium is a dangerous strategy especially with two most decisive stages still left and I don't even think that's Bruyneel's strategy, it seems to me he's more concerned with getting LA on the podium than ensuring that AC actually wins.
07-22-09, 02:56 PM
#397
Climbing Above It All
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Basking in the Sun.
Posts: 4,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Good day for Contador. Not so good for Astana.
What I find humorous is Contador "letting" Schleck win the stage to build alliances knowing his bridges with Astana and Astana-riders are smoldering in ashes from his unauthorized breakaways.
Perhaps Bruyneel created unnecessary insecurity by not naming Contador as team leader at the outset. Hence, Alberto's need to constantly assert himself in individual breakaways. But any rider who doesn't follow team orders consistently has a limited future on the TdF IMO.
I wonder if any of the post-race arm chair quarterbacking would be any different it it had been Armstrong who had been dropped and not Kloden.
Last thing. I don't understand why Contador (since he had the legs), to breakaway from the Shreks and leave everybody in the dust to build up more of a lead for tomorrow's ITT. One anaylsis said that it was downhill past the summit and he needed Kloden to help against the Schleck brothers? Is it somehow more dangerous to go downhill alone than to travel in a group or 3 or 4?
What I find humorous is Contador "letting" Schleck win the stage to build alliances knowing his bridges with Astana and Astana-riders are smoldering in ashes from his unauthorized breakaways.
Perhaps Bruyneel created unnecessary insecurity by not naming Contador as team leader at the outset. Hence, Alberto's need to constantly assert himself in individual breakaways. But any rider who doesn't follow team orders consistently has a limited future on the TdF IMO.
I wonder if any of the post-race arm chair quarterbacking would be any different it it had been Armstrong who had been dropped and not Kloden.
Last thing. I don't understand why Contador (since he had the legs), to breakaway from the Shreks and leave everybody in the dust to build up more of a lead for tomorrow's ITT. One anaylsis said that it was downhill past the summit and he needed Kloden to help against the Schleck brothers? Is it somehow more dangerous to go downhill alone than to travel in a group or 3 or 4?
edit. Besides AC probably had JB yelling in his ear asking what the hell he was doing.
Last edited by BikeWNC; 07-22-09 at 02:59 PM.
.
07-22-09, 03:00 PM
#399
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
There's a whole lot of whining about guys that are getting dropped on big climbs. I'm a Kloden fan, but he doesn't have any excuse for dropping off the way he did. You wanna be on the podium, at least ride a tempo and limit the damage. He just plummeted, for cripes sake. Contador didn't make him do that.
07-22-09, 03:04 PM
#400
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: silicon valley
Posts: 1,774
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Exactly. What was shocking was not that Kloden couldn't match the attack, but how fast he started losing time. As soon as AC saw that the Schlecks were still there, which was pretty quick, he backed off. Kloden just fell off the mountain.
There's a whole lot of whining about guys that are getting dropped on big climbs. I'm a Kloden fan, but he doesn't have any excuse for dropping off the way he did. You wanna be on the podium, at least ride a tempo and limit the damage. He just plummeted, for cripes sake. Contador didn't make him do that.
There's a whole lot of whining about guys that are getting dropped on big climbs. I'm a Kloden fan, but he doesn't have any excuse for dropping off the way he did. You wanna be on the podium, at least ride a tempo and limit the damage. He just plummeted, for cripes sake. Contador didn't make him do that.
ed rader