Tire Seat or Bead Problem
11-14-21, 12:31 PM
#1
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Tire Seat or Bead Problem
Ok, when I was adjusting my mechanical disc brakes yesterday, I noticed that my wheel appeared to be out of true. With a caliper, I found one section bulging. Guys on a Facebook page says the tire bead is broken,and it's trash. It is a WTB Cruz that I installed in August, perhaps 500 miles on them?
I did find a new Cruz on Amazon (can't find tires here locally) and it's enroute.
But then, I told my brother, and he said he bets the tire is not seated on the bead line properly. Sure enough there is a line (can't remember what he called that line) that is above the rim for most of the wheel, then below the rim edge on one section. I tried reinflating, to even 100 PSI. It's never "popped" like he says it should. I did put some soapy water on the rim/tire on both sides.
Do you think it is just the seating or is the tire toast?
Is that line supposed to be visible or on the visible line area, is the tire bead broken and popping off on that section (vs not seating properly)?
I did find a new Cruz on Amazon (can't find tires here locally) and it's enroute.
But then, I told my brother, and he said he bets the tire is not seated on the bead line properly. Sure enough there is a line (can't remember what he called that line) that is above the rim for most of the wheel, then below the rim edge on one section. I tried reinflating, to even 100 PSI. It's never "popped" like he says it should. I did put some soapy water on the rim/tire on both sides.
Do you think it is just the seating or is the tire toast?
Is that line supposed to be visible or on the visible line area, is the tire bead broken and popping off on that section (vs not seating properly)?
11-14-21, 12:53 PM
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First I'd mark the tire and the rim at the problem area. Then remove the tire and examine tire and rim. If it looks normal, reinstall the tire, but not in the same rotation as before (the marked problem areas on tire/rim are no longer aligned). Then see if problem reoccurs, either at the mark on the tire or the mark on the rim - that will give you more info about what's causing the problem.
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11-14-21, 01:14 PM
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I think poor seating is definitely part of the problem. Note how there is a circumferential line just above the bead, that can be seen on the right, but dives under the top of the rim as you look to the left:
You want that line to be visible all the way around, and ideally the same height above the rim. You can't always count on high pressure to pop the tire into place, so you'll need to let a bunch of air out of the tire and push the sidewalls up or down with your thumbs to straighten it out.
You want that line to be visible all the way around, and ideally the same height above the rim. You can't always count on high pressure to pop the tire into place, so you'll need to let a bunch of air out of the tire and push the sidewalls up or down with your thumbs to straighten it out.
11-14-21, 01:23 PM
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Is it causing you any problems?
If there is a part of the witness line below the rim then that might be your issue for the bulge. Long ago I did have some tires I never could get the witness line to show, but other than noticing a very slight bounce from the tire when I rode the bike, it wasn't any issue. And the slight bounce was only noticed when on very smooth level surfaces.
Witness line seems like it might be your issue, but it might not. However, I'm all for you trying to fix the witness line issue. But I'll let others give you more suggestions on that.
Even when I think a tire is toast, I'll usually ride it until it flats. Unless one of the rides coming up is a real important to me ride. A lot of times I'm surprised how long that tire I thought was toast lasts.
If there is a part of the witness line below the rim then that might be your issue for the bulge. Long ago I did have some tires I never could get the witness line to show, but other than noticing a very slight bounce from the tire when I rode the bike, it wasn't any issue. And the slight bounce was only noticed when on very smooth level surfaces.
Witness line seems like it might be your issue, but it might not. However, I'm all for you trying to fix the witness line issue. But I'll let others give you more suggestions on that.
Even when I think a tire is toast, I'll usually ride it until it flats. Unless one of the rides coming up is a real important to me ride. A lot of times I'm surprised how long that tire I thought was toast lasts.
Last edited by Iride01; 11-14-21 at 01:27 PM.
11-14-21, 02:21 PM
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Is it causing you any problems?
If there is a part of the witness line below the rim then that might be your issue for the bulge. Long ago I did have some tires I never could get the witness line to show, but other than noticing a very slight bounce from the tire when I rode the bike, it wasn't any issue. And the slight bounce was only noticed when on very smooth level surfaces.
Witness line seems like it might be your issue, but it might not. However, I'm all for you trying to fix the witness line issue. But I'll let others give you more suggestions on that.
Even when I think a tire is toast, I'll usually ride it until it flats. Unless one of the rides coming up is a real important to me ride. A lot of times I'm surprised how long that tire I thought was toast lasts.
If there is a part of the witness line below the rim then that might be your issue for the bulge. Long ago I did have some tires I never could get the witness line to show, but other than noticing a very slight bounce from the tire when I rode the bike, it wasn't any issue. And the slight bounce was only noticed when on very smooth level surfaces.
Witness line seems like it might be your issue, but it might not. However, I'm all for you trying to fix the witness line issue. But I'll let others give you more suggestions on that.
Even when I think a tire is toast, I'll usually ride it until it flats. Unless one of the rides coming up is a real important to me ride. A lot of times I'm surprised how long that tire I thought was toast lasts.
A few others have suggested this is a dangerous situation and not worth the cost of a tire.
Is there any chance the line is NOT supposed to be visible and the bead had indeed failed? (and bulging out at the failure point). The tire shows no other signs of issue.
I'll just take it to a local shop tomorrow and see what they say.
11-14-21, 02:35 PM
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I've never had a flat that was a problem for me at any speed on the roads I ride. However I don't know what the road or trail conditions are you or others that consider it unsafe are riding. Really twisty downhill roads or trails at speed and I too would probably change it.
So you have to make a judgement call. If you aren't confident you can make that judgement, then change it. I can see where many people consider it not worth the risk compared to the price of the tire. However for me, it's just that I'd rather not be troubled changing it until I have to.
I've had tires that didn't have a witness line, but other markings on the tire let you figure it out. I doubt there is any chance the witness line is not supposed to be visible. Especially since you indicated you see it elsewhere on that wheel. It likely just wasn't found when the tire was installed whether that was you or another.
Whether fixing the witness line issue will fix the bulge, I sort of doubt it. But you won't know if you don't try.
And if I owned a bike shop, I'd always pick the answer that leaves me the least liability even if I actually thought it wasn't a real problem.
So you have to make a judgement call. If you aren't confident you can make that judgement, then change it. I can see where many people consider it not worth the risk compared to the price of the tire. However for me, it's just that I'd rather not be troubled changing it until I have to.
I've had tires that didn't have a witness line, but other markings on the tire let you figure it out. I doubt there is any chance the witness line is not supposed to be visible. Especially since you indicated you see it elsewhere on that wheel. It likely just wasn't found when the tire was installed whether that was you or another.
Whether fixing the witness line issue will fix the bulge, I sort of doubt it. But you won't know if you don't try.
And if I owned a bike shop, I'd always pick the answer that leaves me the least liability even if I actually thought it wasn't a real problem.
Last edited by Iride01; 11-14-21 at 03:06 PM.
11-14-21, 03:16 PM
#7
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First I'd mark the tire and the rim at the problem area. Then remove the tire and examine tire and rim. If it looks normal, reinstall the tire, but not in the same rotation as before (the marked problem areas on tire/rim are no longer aligned). Then see if problem reoccurs, either at the mark on the tire or the mark on the rim - that will give you more info about what's causing the problem.
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11-15-21, 09:07 AM
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So did that fix the bulge?
11-15-21, 10:52 AM
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11-15-21, 11:19 AM
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I have been having similar problems with a few of the tires I have purchased this year. On one tire the bead was defective and I could have caught the defect before mounting if I had inspected the tire closely. The other problem has been with Folded tires. Especially the thicker ones used for touring and flat prevention. Just last night I could not get a 27 1-1/4 ChiCom Bell Flat Defense to seat and yet this AM it seated well. I think it is because I mounted the tire and left it just barely with enough air to keep it on the rim over night. This morning I manually massaged the tire into place and reinflated and the tire seated properly. I think that the thick flat tires need time to take shape and that could be the underling problem as well as poor manufacturing. The problem could also be aggravated by mounting a Folded Flat tire in cold weather.
I have allot of experience using Economical (Cheap) tires and sometimes I have just had total failures. Oddly mounting 27 1-1/4 tires have given me the most problems. There is a tool made by Park that can be used to reposition tires but I have just used large channel locks after tapping the teeth to prevent damage.
I have allot of experience using Economical (Cheap) tires and sometimes I have just had total failures. Oddly mounting 27 1-1/4 tires have given me the most problems. There is a tool made by Park that can be used to reposition tires but I have just used large channel locks after tapping the teeth to prevent damage.
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11-15-21, 08:08 PM
#11
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The bulge is indeed gone.
I settled for these WTB Cruz tires, because they were literally the only ones available locally in my size. I was looking for the Panaracer Gravel King SS, but none to be found at that time. So, I'll just wear these out and hopefully by them, the supply issues will all be resolved, and gas will be $2 again. Well, a guy can dream. My current WTB's are 700x37 - whats the best of those two?
Thanks for the advice. My brother echoed Sandaval's comments about difficulty with certain tires. I'll be more careful in the future.
I settled for these WTB Cruz tires, because they were literally the only ones available locally in my size. I was looking for the Panaracer Gravel King SS, but none to be found at that time. So, I'll just wear these out and hopefully by them, the supply issues will all be resolved, and gas will be $2 again. Well, a guy can dream. My current WTB's are 700x37 - whats the best of those two?
Thanks for the advice. My brother echoed Sandaval's comments about difficulty with certain tires. I'll be more careful in the future.
