cmh

I've been learning to skate ski these last couple of weekends and it has been super fun, and I'd have to say a killer cardiovascular workout.

Enthalpic

Highest VO2max athletes

burnthesheep

Personal thought experiment, guide me along..............

Isn't part of it that rowers and cross country skiers use more musculature when making power than a cyclist, so the application of VO2max might be a bit skewed in comparison?

ml/min per kg. More kg's of muscle being supplied to might matter?

So they can't realistically use all of the crazy vo2max they have if they got off the skis and only rode the bike as a transition to a pro cyclist.

Hermes

4 billion years ago, mitochondria merged with species that ultimately because human. Hence, we consist of two organisms with different DNA. Mitochondria produces energy by converting oxygen and fuel to ATP to contract muscles. Humans get their mitochondria from their mothers via the egg as the sperm has no volume capability and only carries a code - sorry dads. During cell growth and differentiation, the mitochondria is distributed throughout the muscles to provide aerobic benefit and ATP production.

Is the above a perfect explanation…probably not but the point is that aerobic capability is inherited and partially depends on mitochondria density in muscles.

Blood make up and volume are also critical to VO2 capability as it is the blood that carries the oxygen to the mitochondria for conversion to ATP and returns the CO2 waste product back to the lungs.

Heart stroke volume is key in that the more blood that can be pumped the more O2 that can be carried to muscles.

Next is piping i.e. arteries and veins. They do not have infinite capability to all parts of the body.

So…Xc skiers and rowers will engage more muscles and more mitochondria to make ATP and consume more O2. Can the VO2 as measured by O2 consumption for skiers and rowers be applied to those same athletes when cycling. I assume it depends on the piping and mitochondria density in the legs. In general, I do not see how but genetics are weird so maybe.

Does it make sense to train XC skiing and rowing to improve ones cycling? Maybe but my theory and that of all the coaches I have used is to focus on cycling if one wants to get better at cycling. If anything, we want the cells in our arms and other non power producing muscles NOT to send a signal to mitochondria in our arms to make ATP when cycling and divert blood and O2.

Several years ago and had a chance to talk with Dr. Max Testa at his book signing of Faster, Better Stronger. He pointed out that as aerobic athletes we are all O2 limited and as such it is all about blood composition and blood volume. Which is why, blood doping works so well.

Just some musings to add to BST’s

TMonk

^
Interesting stuff. Thanks for the lesson. I for one am glad that I inherited my mother's lungs and health. My sister got my Dad's, not as lucky.

cmh

I do think spending more time on a bike instead of xc-skiing would make me faster on the bike. But, skiing is something I do with my wife and kids, and I think the core and upper body effort, (in addition to legs) is good for my overall well being. itsallgood.

Enthalpic

Yes.
But look at his sprint near the end of the video... the guy passes elite skiers like they are stationary. Impressive stuff.

Enthalpic

Alberta Canada hosts the national XC ski team in Canmore.

These guys occasionally enter bike races in cat 5 and of course destroy everyone. When people have their season dreams crushed you just tell them "that guy went to the Olympics..."

Flatballer

Bit gross, but we've been here long enough this is turning into that place all the old has beens ***** about their various ailments, so here it is.

Grossness below because I don't see spoiler tags:







Had a perianal abscess cut and drained and packed today. Holy ****. I've had some painful injuries, but wow. The last few days of living with it as it grew and then popped and then grew and then popped and then grew, were pure hell (including a 20 minute drive I had to do myself). And then the actual procedure today took it to another level, but at least it was brief. Pain is still intense (mostly because it's packed) but so much better than it was. Tomorrow I can remove the packing, which will probably hurt like **** but at least then it's mostly over and healing.

Flatballer

Also, I'm sad that P&R is dead (I get why, there were folks who took way too much mod time), I liked seeing what people outside my bubble who are theoretically sane were thinking.

himespau 

Is it dead again? I guess I hadn't seen any notifications today or yesterday, so I probably should have guessed.

Flatballer

Yeah, it got awfully quiet without any updates on my subscriptions for a few days so I finally went and there's a sticky.

topflightpro

[QUOTE=Flatballer;22405794]Bit gross, but we've been here long enough this is turning into that place all the old has beens ***** about their various ailments, so here it is.

Grossness below because I don't see spoiler tags:
/QUOTE]

A friend of mine had one of those several years ago. He had to sit on an inflatable donut for a few weeks.

It also just so happened that my sister was in town visiting at that time and met him. She will occasionally ask how the ass guy is doing.

Flatballer

[QUOTE=topflightpro;22406165]I hope I don't become the ass guy.

himespau 

Now, I've got this stuck in my head:

TheKillerPenguin

Bummer! Enjoyed lurking there from time to time.

himespau 

I could be wrong, but it sure seemed like there were some new(-ish) posters there who enjoyed making provocative comments and then reporting posts when getting called out for racism/antisemitism/whatever. Don't know if that was all that was going on behind the scenes as I'm not a mod and there may have been more other troubles as well, but that seemed to be happening often enough (especially after the final warnings were sent out), that it almost seemed like certain individuals were actively trying to get the place shut down.

I enjoyed visiting for the same reason Flatballer did, but it did seem to be in a spiral of the same thing happening over and over toward the end, so I can see why it was deemed to be more trouble than it was worth.

LAJ

Spot on. I don't believe one can point to the new(-ish) people in that regard, either.

burnthesheep

I wanted to go to VA to do the canal 10mi TT. I guess it never occurs to people that hold similar events to ever chat together.

They chose the same exact weekend as our regional champs for TT in NC. Really?

I'm also going to go ahead and bet the local TT series calendar of dates in Greensboro will have some silly conflict also. I wouldn't be surprised if they also chose a weekend that hits up against regionals or some other big event. It isn't a great series either as at the crits our team does, those guys get podium pictures for the sponsors and such. That TT series is like "see ya in a month"....and nothing. There's something to recognizing folks in part of series that can't make every single event. A little photo for the team page.

Might be time to take up duathlon. I can run OK. And I get a cute finishers t-shirt or something. I know of at least two of them in NC. Maybe see if someone wants to do an IM relay squad. Find a cracker jack runner and swimmer.

topflightpro

You are not the only racer frustrated by how the race schedule is developed.

BUT, most races, crits, RRs, TT.... are not put on by professional event management organizations, but other racers. Running races and Triathlons are often hosted by professional organizations, but most local bike races are not. It takes a person or club stepping up to put on an event. They are often managing a million different challenges to put on an event, and it's often unclear who is doing what and when until the events are permitted and posted.

USAC used to require all clubs to host one event a year, but they ended that 7 or 8 years ago. I feel like that's about when then number of events declined, but there were several other factors happening then too, so who knows.

Regardless, if you've never hosted an event, I strongly encourage you to do so. And if you're not ready for that, start by volunteering at one.

cmh

From my limited understanding, most event organizers, particularly of small events like a bike race don't have much choice of what weekend they put it on. They are subject to when permits will be granted, when association officials are available and a host of other constraints. It is a shame when there seems to be so few events on the calendar, and yet they overlap.

Psimet2001 

Ooofff.. Yeah. too long. TLDR: Putting on events sucks but in the end who really cares. We do it to ourselves. It just mean's I don't care much when people complain anymore.


Hi! I'm the president of the Illinois Cycling Association - the Local Association for USA Cycling that covers Illinois. These points were in fact what we covered on Sunday at our last race directors meeting. Quick background- I have been promoting/directing races since 2010. Since then I have put on something stupid like 32 events. Criteriums and cross races mainly. I have gone in and saved multiple races in that time. 3 or 4 off the top of my head.

1. Calendar - as a race director you don't have visibility to anything calendar wise. Just like with everyone else you have to know to go looking for any dates from USA Cycling and even then it's like they're hidden and reserved for only the special few. I am sure someone will say "it's easy they are all right here" but part of it is knowing there's actually a race someone should care about. "You scheduled your crit on the same weekend as the midwest gravel fondo 5000! Are you stupid?" "Yes...Yes I am." What's more USA Cycling is regional and then "local". Depending on the region and locale you may or may not have visibility on anything. Example: I know a lot about Wisconsin stuff because I personally know a lot of the board for the Wisconsin Local Association (WCA). I have a team I work with a lot for events in Indiana, just over the border. We provide officials, camera, results, course setup and design, etc... but that's officially in the INKY (Indiana Kentucky) Association so we get little to no feedback or help on anything with those races that are literally 5 miles from our border and considered part of the larger Chicagoland community. USA Cycling won't annex that area either (I have asked).

Also the dates you pick for an event are what they are. A lot goes into it. Believe it or not it isn't always what works best for the rider although that is a major consideration. I can think of at least one of my events that has to be held on a particular Sunday because of other local events in the region, Holidays that neighborhood celebrate, and noise permit waivers and timing....along with it having to be on a Sunday because of Law Enforcement availability and the lower traffic in the neighborhood. The date is always the same and if tomorrow someone puts on a midwest regional criterium championships on the same date... Oh well. I would be more apt to cancel my event for the year than somehow impossibly move the date.

We did one race that was on a race track and it had to be held in early spring before any of the car or motorcycle races were planned for the venue. Everyone was always like, "Hey it sometimes snows for this crit... can't we do it in July?" "No...you're not a car."

Also - USA Cycling under Robert DeMartini decided to start actively eliminating LA's. We (the LA) were controlling local permitting, upgrades, local officials, etc. It was a move to save money as the LA's are paid back based on rider participation in their area. Change was needed as some dead LAs had hundreds of $k in the bank not being used but for busy ones like ours it meant we lost sight of events being permitted and scheduled in our local calendar. Colorado didn't have any idea that we usually don't have a race on ___ weekend because ToAD will draw the riders away, etc. The new CEO has promised some of that will revert but time will tell.

2. Race events are down to downright disappearing forever. Now I will blow off some steam: so what. Everyone has shown they don't want to do racing so they get what they get. They sit atop their faux leather thrones and cast judgement on events and promoters for anything that does or doesn't happen the way they think it should. Even if their heart is in the right place they often just end up saying, "hey thanks for still putting this on. I always loved it when I raced. I hope you have a good turnout. I'd do it .... BUT..." but...but?! If there's a problem with races then the ones saying that are a big part of it.

<soapbox> I personally don't give a rat's ass about why you don't do it anymore. "It's too expensive", "I'm too old", "I'm too slow now", "It's too risky", "I like my teeth", "Doc said I've had too many concussions" wah wah wah ... no seriously though - everyone has reasons for themselves that work as valid excuses for no longer racing. I stopped for years because I was way too fat and an embarrassment to myself. So I truly don't care what your reason is. It's valid for you but it's effectively meaningless in the big picture. My soapbox if that y'all need to figuratively or actually take someone's hand and introduce them to the sport. We need it. We really need it. Just because you're over it doesn't mean you should walk away completely. I mean you're here reading this FFS so you're not completely gone. Just try and introduce someone. Someone did it for you most likely (I found it on my own but I'm stupid). So get someone to try it this year....and as a word of advice please don't take some of the little precious time of a struggling event director to tell them how disappointed you are that no one came out and then all your own personal excuses for why you didn't either. </soapbox>

The "every club puts on a race" bit.... first of all can we just eliminate the team and club designations and just call everything there the same thing - they are racing teams. Clubs don't sign up with USA Cycling. Anyway... I was "for" this. It is why, when I stepped up and started my own club I immediately started to reach out and look for events I could help with and then host/direct. I KNEW it was our obligation. Then we hit saturation. There wasn't a weekend throughout the entire riding season that didn't have some event thanks to the large series in our area like Superweek, then Tour of America's Dairyland and Prairie State Cycling Series / Intelligentsia Cup. Cross exploded and we had a huge series that is/was awesome but ended up starting in August and ending in December. The snow happens here into April and May... We started to be fairly discouraging about new races as there just wasn't any room in the calendar.

Then they dropped the requirement. We were happy. Then it backfired. It simply created this class of racer who is now able to indulge their self-indulgence and entitlement and simply consume what they deem worthy with no responsibility to actually create and maintain grassroots events. What we are left with is a tiny handful of actual directors that are all getting older and are more tired of the work and little to no pay than ever. I watch people that without whom there simply would be no racing in Illinois talk to others like everything is normal and fine only to later confide in me that if one more thing gets rammed down their throat rule or policy wise or if another masters racer that they have known since he was a junior comes up and talks to them like they are some sort of servant to them they will just pack it all up on the spot and walk away.

Sorry this is a long winded rant.

BTS - I don't have any problem with you and I know you don't like how it's scheduled but from my background all I can say is that it is what it is. I can say it's usually way more complicated than just looking at a calendar and picking a conflicting date just to mess with people. Event hosting sucks. If a local series you like is missing something you think is important then always feel free to suggest it. Don't be surprised if the response is a no response or even a "that would be great - when can I expect you to show up to do it". As for the recommendation to put on an event - Sure. If you want to. Last thing we need is people putting on events as some sort of punishment though.

While I am no longer where I was a few years back where I wanted to walk away from every event I put on I am at a point where is a municipality were to say, "hey we need you to cancel for this year" that I would probably shrug and say "OK" instead of fighting like I used to.

burnthesheep

My road bike meter thinks it only takes 220w to go 21mph on a loop that's 100 feet per mile elevation. Sweeeeet. Not..... I'm even 5 pounds heavier than this time last year.

Need to replace that crap. That's not acceptable. However nice that would be, reality is probably closer to 240w.

AlexEpsy92

Same here!

burnthesheep

Lol, I missed all that before my reply.

I guess I was just saying I would do both if they weren't same weekend and same discipline. If I had to guess, more VA folks will do the SE regional than NC folks skip regionals to do the local VA event. Which is sad. As VA event looks nice.

I feel in NC they NAIL the cross calendar. Having kids is my fault, but there is little conflict local and statewide series. Great job.

The Summer crits seem fine also schedule wise.

It was just this one, I feel bad for the VA event. Last year the regional had attendance record high. If that repeats….sorry for VA. It is a measured 10mi which I want a PR for. Regionals is even 100m short of 40km (eyeroll).