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Body Weight for Strength Training

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Body Weight for Strength Training

Old 08-12-21, 07:22 AM
  #26  
rwmct
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I get the "train to ride by riding" sentiment. But my impression is that athletes in just about every sport do some kind of weight training, at least some of the time.
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Old 08-12-21, 09:18 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by rwmct View Post
I get the "train to ride by riding" sentiment. But my impression is that athletes in just about every sport do some kind of weight training, at least some of the time.
Correct. It's quite effective. Every cyclist study I've read says that both lifting heavy and plyometrics are effective cycling training. IME the heavy isn't as important as lifting to failure or near failure within say 30-50 reps. Thus the beginning lifter can get results while avoiding injury, the issue being that high rep lifting takes up too much time and thus is seldom studied. One gradually works down to sets of 4-6, perhaps over a period of years.

In bodyweight terms, yep, just do pushups and pullups until you fail. Perfect. The bodyweight issue is legs. When I was racing Nordic back in my late teens, I could do 200 one-legged knee bends on each leg, no rest. One gets on a chair, two fingers on a wall, and just does them. Maybe start with 3 sets of 20. That's a good evaluation start. Use a little more range of motion than one would pedaling, no need to go all the way down, in fact it's counterproductive. I do straighten my leg at the top for a tiny bit of rest. One can experiment with hip angle, which changes what fires when.
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Old 08-12-21, 11:30 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Correct. It's quite effective. Every cyclist study I've read says that both lifting heavy and plyometrics are effective cycling training. IME the heavy isn't as important as lifting to failure or near failure within say 30-50 reps. Thus the beginning lifter can get results while avoiding injury, the issue being that high rep lifting takes up too much time and thus is seldom studied. One gradually works down to sets of 4-6, perhaps over a period of years.
.
I disagree with you somewhat there on the gradual introduction of low rep work. There is no reason for beginners not doing lower rep-higher weight work. One of the most popular beginner weight lifting programs in the world, Starting Strength, is built around five rep sets. I do agree that there is value in higher reps. But that is for increasing endurance strength, or for fat loss. (Or bodybuilding, of course, but that is a pretty specialized area).

To me, one of the best movements for this is the step up. Just get a bench or a box and step up on it with one leg, touch the other foot to it and step down, Repeat on the other leg. On and on. I will do 100 reps with each leg. You can use bodyweight, grab a fairly light pair of dbs, a water jug in each hand, put on a back pack with a couple bricks in it, whatever. It is a very effective exercise, though it is quite tedious.
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Old 08-12-21, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rwmct View Post
I disagree with you somewhat there on the gradual introduction of low rep work. There is no reason for beginners not doing lower rep-higher weight work. One of the most popular beginner weight lifting programs in the world, Starting Strength, is built around five rep sets. I do agree that there is value in higher reps. But that is for increasing endurance strength, or for fat loss. (Or bodybuilding, of course, but that is a pretty specialized area).

To me, one of the best movements for this is the step up. Just get a bench or a box and step up on it with one leg, touch the other foot to it and step down, Repeat on the other leg. On and on. I will do 100 reps with each leg. You can use bodyweight, grab a fairly light pair of dbs, a water jug in each hand, put on a back pack with a couple bricks in it, whatever. It is a very effective exercise, though it is quite tedious.
The problem with starting with 5 X 5 is that one can't start by doing work to near failure without risking injury. One starts light and gradually increases weight. This results in slower progress. Read the strength training chapter in Friel, a good place to start. I've been strength training on and off for 62 years, continuously since '79.

Of course one can do anything one likes, but giving advice in an open forum, I advise starting out by working on form and endurance. I've had the best success in starting a new program doing 30 reps of 7-9,exercizes, circuit style, all sets same weight, the weight being continuously adjusted so that one cannot complete 30 reps on the last set. There's no reason to do a gym exercise which allows 100 or so reps. One would be much better off doing box jumps. Those are quite effective, being plyo instead of heavy work and are bodyweight, good to mention in this thread. Combining plyo with weights is also quite effective. Good for the bones, too.

All that said, my secret weapon for cycling fitness during the past 25 years has been doing strenuous day hikes in the mountains, the interesting thing being that one can do hours and hours of zone 1 without getting bored. I typically carry a 25 lb. pack and use poles for upper body conditioning. Strength training has been good for my hiking, too.
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Old 08-12-21, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
The problem with starting with 5 X 5 is that one can't start by doing work to near failure without risking injury. One starts light and gradually increases weight. This results in slower progress. Read the strength training chapter in Friel, a good place to start. I've been strength training on and off for 62 years, continuously since '79.
Again, the most popular beginner program out there uses 5x5. There is nothing unsafe about it.
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Old 08-12-21, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rwmct View Post
Again, the most popular beginner program out there uses 5x5. There is nothing unsafe about it.
And you've done it with great success and can now squat ATG with 150% bodyweight. Congrats! As is said to happen, I've become more conservative as I've aged.
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Old 08-12-21, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
The problem with starting with 5 X 5 is that one can't start by doing work to near failure without risking injury..
Strength training programs such as 5x5 and others are not meant to be done to failure...believe it or not but you can make great progress without training to failure. Personally I refer to do high rep workouts but i never go to failure. Not training to failure allows my body to recover faster and still make progress.
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Old 08-12-21, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
And you've done it with great success and can now squat ATG with 150% bodyweight. Congrats! As is said to happen, I've become more conservative as I've aged.
I never said that. Joint mobility is an issue for me, no ATG.
I have become more conservative too. I do shorter workouts with fewer exercises. But focusing on maintaining strength is important, IMO, and more so when you get older.
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Old 08-12-21, 08:27 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Strength training programs such as 5x5 and others are not meant to be done to failure...believe it or not but you can make great progress without training to failure. Personally I refer to do high rep workouts but i never go to failure. Not training to failure allows my body to recover faster and still make progress.
Yep. Most programs, especially beginner programs, instruct you to quit the set when you can't do another rep with good form. This does not present an unacceptable risk of injury, as you are always using good form. (When just starting out they may want you stopping the set even earlier. But they certainly not looking to have you fail on any reps).

Obviously, one has to listen to one's body and give yourself adequate recovery time (including enough sleep and food). But that is true of any exercise you are doing.

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Old 08-18-21, 08:38 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by rwmct View Post
I disagree with you somewhat there on the gradual introduction of low rep work. There is no reason for beginners not doing lower rep-higher weight work. One of the most popular beginner weight lifting programs in the world, Starting Strength, is built around five rep sets. I do agree that there is value in higher reps. But that is for increasing endurance strength, or for fat loss. (Or bodybuilding, of course, but that is a pretty specialized area).

To me, one of the best movements for this is the step up. Just get a bench or a box and step up on it with one leg, touch the other foot to it and step down, Repeat on the other leg. On and on. I will do 100 reps with each leg. You can use bodyweight, grab a fairly light pair of dbs, a water jug in each hand, put on a back pack with a couple bricks in it, whatever. It is a very effective exercise, though it is quite tedious.
Agreed.
IMO moderate reps (say 5-12) is probably the best range for most people to be in. I suspect that is also safer than doing significantly higher rep sets. Yes, the weight is heavier, but by doing fewer reps, you're far less likely to lose concentration and neglect your form. It's also much less unpleasant than doing very high reps.
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